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Quitch
09-11-2007, 08:03 PM
My thoughts after a couple of games (losing the first, winning the second).

1. When raiding, or indeed fighting in any way, I find myself all too often clicking on someone to talk to them. Since viewing henchmen stats is already covered via a shortcut key, a way to disable this would be handy. Would make it a hundred times easier to attack a lifestone.

2. Why doesn't the "display recruit" key default to the one currently in your party?

3. It would be nice, once I've won a raid and used the portal home, for the raid to end automatically. Can I take them outside while it thinks I'm still raiding?

4. What's the point of war? To whittle down the enemy lifestone health in advance of a raid? To defend a friend's base?

5. The game power ratings massively overrate guards. AFAIK they don't respawn, which means they're no where near as good as heroes and recruits. When looking to raid I look purely at hero/recruit ratings.

6. The "like/dislike" status line colours need to be far more distinguishable. I'm not colour blind, but I feel like it looking at those lines. I really can't tell like from dislike.

7. You gain a massive amount of influence from destroying a lifestone, but since when one raids everyone joins in, it becomes almost random as to who gets the points.

8. Why is a non-rading AI who isn't at war standing by the beast master with several recruits?

9. It would be nice to have an indication of which items need identifying.

10. I would like to know in advance whether my henchmen can use an item of weapon or armour.

11. When I complete the goal of a recruiting task the timer disappears and I can recruit in my own time. When the AI finishes the task the timer doesn't disappear, unless they return to town and recruit them.

12. The AI seems too lax in recruiting. When that level seven warrior appears, and no one has a recruit that high, they should be hitting the portals to get back, get the quest, get out into the field, and then using them to get back again. Recruits are, IMO, a million times better than guards.

13. It would be nice to have an XP bar for recruits down the left side.

14. Okay, we've faced them in the field and we've got a cost associated with them, but couldn't we get just a few more details on guards, like HP, DPS, abilities etc.? Right now you just find the most expensive guard you wish to buy, unless others know the creatures in much greater depth than me.

15. Can we arrange the beastmaster creatures by cost or something?

16. AI seems happy to buy any old junk I throw at it. Not only does this drain its money, it means I can unload my inventory while in the field, saving me returning to town. I can even do it from deep inside a dungeon.

17. Failed quests stay in my quest journal???

Thanks for listening :)

Ubbax
09-12-2007, 02:20 AM
Very nice list Quitch you pretty much covered my own questions and points as well as saved me the time of writing it up ;)

I know that there is a pause key and I have remapped it to E but I wonder if it could be added to the interface. Perhaps just a small little button stuck on the end of the Interface on the lower right hand side. Maybe make it the Dragons eye or something.

Please make my Warrior companion stop slaughtering everthing in a wide swath on the way back to town or when heading out. I know he's good at what he does and so enjoys the destruction and mayhem he creates on our journeys. In fact I cannot ever recall him dying. Try as I might he just cannot comprehend Mages, like myself, simply don't endure mass beatings very well. Perhaps I should use smaller words when explaining.. Then there's all that phat loot I have to leave laying everywhere as well since he refuses to man up & share the load.

My thoughts after a couple of games (losing the first, winning the second).


Lord I must suck something aweful. Seven or Eight games now and no wins. All my games have ended with my Mage never higher than level 6 and the last 3 or 4 Covenants getting together and gang banging me out of existence.

I was so disgusted I uninstalled the game; only to re-install it after much laughter and derision from my young nephews and of all people a woman who generally never even plays games, none of whom seem to suffer my ineptitude.

Actually considering the small quarters these Raids take place in I wonder if perhaps no more than two Covenants should be able to ban together in an attack. Of course I'm playing a Mage which during a raid dies in the blink of an eye and has trouble targeting anything with a spell.


1. When raiding, or indeed fighting in any way, I find myself all too often clicking on someone to talk to them. Since viewing henchmen stats is already covered via a shortcut key, a way to disable this would be handy. Would make it a hundred times easier to attack a lifestone.


Agreed, I too find myself doing this all to often especially in Raids when 2 or more Covenants having a few recruits each decide it's time to terminate me.


5. The game power ratings massively overrate guards. AFAIK they don't respawn, which means they're no where near as good as heroes and recruits. When looking to raid I look purely at hero/recruit ratings.


I do the same but I cannot distinguish the lines so I have to jot down the types of Recruits & Levels for each Covenant as I see them.

I've also observed my Guards attacking Raiders which are not hitting my Lifestone. I wish they would focus their attacks on the enemy characters actually trying to damage the Lifestone.


6. The "like/dislike" status line colours need to be far more distinguishable. I'm not colour blind, but I feel like it looking at those lines. I really can't tell like from dislike.


This was the whole reason I came to the forum to post.
Sadly this has prevented me from purchasing the game.

It's long been accepted roughly 10 percent of the male population suffers from some form of color blindness.
Recent estimates place this number as high as 20 percent.

I do suffer from Color Blindness or more properly I suffer from Color vision deficiencies.
I have a great deal of difficulty telling similar color shades apart. Close shades of green & yellow are probably the worset.
People whom suffer from this problem tend to require bold colors very distinct from each other.

Unfortunately Steven, especially for the Relationship lines, you have picked the most common shades even those with mild Color deficiencies will be unable to distinguish between. For myself I simply cannot distinguish any of those thin graph lines apart and this problem becomes compounded once the lines start to weave & cross among themselves.


12. The AI seems too lax in recruiting. When that level seven warrior appears, and no one has a recruit that high, they should be hitting the portals to get back, get the quest, get out into the field, and then using them to get back again. Recruits are, IMO, a million times better than guards.


I've been scooped by the AI a few times while headed back to talk with the Recruit after completing their quests. I've also seen Covenants which had say a Rogue, Warrior, & Priest appear to ignore new Warrior recruits but jump right in as soon as a Mage appeared.

Still I whole heartedly agree that Recruits appear much better than guards.


15. Can we arrange the beastmaster creatures by cost or something?


I second this plea. Please...


16. AI seems happy to buy any old junk I throw at it. Not only does this drain its money, it means I can unload my inventory while in the field, saving me returning to town. I can even do it from deep inside a dungeon.


Well this is something I really don't have a problem with. It saves me running back to town constantly to unload my small inventory.

Yes I'm aware of bags and how to use them but in the early stage of the game when money is scarce, and you've skills to pay for, 1 1/2 silver pieces is a lot to pay for a bag. Perhaps I'm just not finding many.

I jotted down a list of 18 - 20 items and what an NPC Merchant would pay me and then compared it to what another Covenant would pay; in every case I was offered less money than the NPC Merchant was willing to pay.

Ubbax
"We don't stop playing because we grow old...
We grow old because we stop playing."

-George Bernard Shaw

AnalogKid
09-12-2007, 06:24 AM
Lots of good comments here. I noticed a few that seem to be something that I can clear up...

4. What's the point of war? To whittle down the enemy lifestone health in advance of a raid? To defend a friend's base?
Mostly the second. Also, it's very occasionally useful in the field if you see an opponent about to solve a quest you're on. You can declare war and kill them so that you can rescue/kill/pickup whatever. This is pretty rare, though, because it depends on being in the right place, right time.
17. Failed quests stay in my quest journal???
Just select the quest and click "decline". It'll remove any quest from your journal, failed or not.
Please make my Warrior companion stop slaughtering everthing in a wide swath on the way back to town or when heading out. I know he's good at what he does and so enjoys the destruction and mayhem he creates on our journeys. In fact I cannot ever recall him dying. Try as I might he just cannot comprehend Mages, like myself, simply don't endure mass beatings very well. Perhaps I should use smaller words when explaining.. Then there's all that phat loot I have to leave laying everywhere as well since he refuses to man up & share the load.

Ubbax, you also mentioned a few things about not doing so well and dying with your mage. I just finished the game for the first time with my mage (normal aggressiveness, always equal or higher covenants, ended lvl 23, never lost a game) and I thought I'd make a few comments that might be helpful (can't help with the colors). :P

- It sounds like you're not using the teleport stone to move in/out of town much more quickly. It will ensure you don't get beat to recruits, it will prevent your meat shield from attacking worthless enemies while you walk out of town, and it will make going back to town for vendor trips instantaneous. If you already use it, cool. If not, it's in your starting inventory. Make it a hotkey and make it your friend.

- I started playing a warrior and kicking ass, but it got harder in middle levels (~15-20) when my DPS just couldn't keep up with badguy armor & health. Of course a Priest can do well with healing, and I thought Rogues and Mages were pretty inferior, based on the Demo. A lot has changed since the Demo. Can't say much about Rogues yet, but the Mage can dominate. Two builds I've used:

"Earthquake Mage" - concept is to do massive AoE damage to everything. Earthquake is the most efficient spell for that purpose (better than sweeping flames & fire mastery, even). Just pump it and Earth Mastery (in full game, not Demo). Some cold AoE is nice to slow them down so you can run circles while nuking the whole screen. Very effective. Earthquake even interrupts monster spells.

"Bolt Mage". Pick your favorite bolt + mastery (I prefer Arctic Blast). Don't spend a single skill point on anything other than those two skills. Kill everything in 2 shots or less, except champs/elites who take about 4. Walk slowly, use right button to target at the very edge of the visible screen (zoomed all the way out), and you can kill most things before they even get to you to attack. You MUST get rid of your meat shield and recruit a Priest or Mage to be your adventuring partner, because otherwise your meat shield will attract monsters before you're ready for them.

In both cases, pump INT and use equipment that pumps INT, ignoring armor, defense, or anything else except regen over time. At lvl23 I can 2-shot lvl30 normal opponents with ~20% critical chance that has done 800+ dmg if it criticals, ~180 average dmg. If I get mobbed I use the teleport stone and run, then go back through a different gate and slowly walk up to where I was, sniping at the mob as it approaches me. Normally I can kill the whole mob before they get to me (Arctic Blast helps there because of the slowdown).

If I get hit, I rely on my Priest followers' Toughness (which almost doubles my health) and the teleport stone to run away before dying. I didn't spend on Dex and I don't care about defense or armor or even crowd control with this build. The best defense is an embarrassingly good offense!

There are many other ways to play mages, but those two are simple and effective. I really hope you enjoy this game because I think it's a lot of fun and definitely worth buying.

LDiCesare
09-12-2007, 06:35 AM
1. When raiding, or indeed fighting in any way, I find myself all too often clicking on someone to talk to them. Since viewing henchmen stats is already covered via a shortcut key, a way to disable this would be handy. Would make it a hundred times easier to attack a lifestone.
Agreed. I also have lots of pain selecting my own lifestone to heal because of all hte buddies in front.


4. What's the point of war? To whittle down the enemy lifestone health in advance of a raid? To defend a friend's base?

Yes, but also between raids: You don't heal at your lifestone during a raid but can during a war.


9. It would be nice to have an indication of which items need identifying.

Indeed.


14. Okay, we've faced them in the field and we've got a cost associated with them, but couldn't we get just a few more details on guards, like HP, DPS, abilities etc.? Right now you just find the most expensive guard you wish to buy, unless others know the creatures in much greater depth than me.

Yes, it's really a "who costs most" right now.


16. AI seems happy to buy any old junk I throw at it. Not only does this drain its money, it means I can unload my inventory while in the field, saving me returning to town. I can even do it from deep inside a dungeon.

I just gift them the stuff...


17. Failed quests stay in my quest journal???
And it should stay this way. You may not notice the quest failed message when busy in the middle of a battle. This way, next time you check, you know it and can decline the quest to clear it yourself.

Shadow
09-12-2007, 11:56 AM
3. It would be nice, once I've won a raid and used the portal home, for the raid to end automatically. Can I take them outside while it thinks I'm still raiding?

They should not follow you out of town.

4. What's the point of war? To whittle down the enemy lifestone health in advance of a raid? To defend a friend's base?

It's used more often by the AI then players but it does allow you to kill enemy recruits in town or out in the world, it does intimate the AI a bit, and it continues after raids.

5. The game power ratings massively overrate guards. AFAIK they don't respawn, which means they're no where near as good as heroes and recruits. When looking to raid I look purely at hero/recruit ratings.

I'll look at the balance some, but guards can make a big difference. In a full raid you can only bring 6 attackers but the defending covenant can have 10 defenders. So guards can make raids much harder.

7. You gain a massive amount of influence from destroying a lifestone, but since when one raids everyone joins in, it becomes almost random as to who gets the points.

It's based on what covenant did the most damage.

8. Why is a non-rading AI who isn't at war standing by the beast master with several recruits?

Several as in more than one? If so that is kind of strange.

16. AI seems happy to buy any old junk I throw at it. Not only does this drain its money, it means I can unload my inventory while in the field, saving me returning to town. I can even do it from deep inside a dungeon.

If they don't eventually want an item they will sell it to the vendors. They might also sell it to one of the other covenants.

17. Failed quests stay in my quest journal???

This is so if you missed the quest failing you aren't confused why all of a sudden your quest is missing.

I didn't respond to a bunch of these, but I will look into doing something about many of them.

Shadow
09-12-2007, 12:16 PM
I know that there is a pause key and I have remapped it to E but I wonder if it could be added to the interface. Perhaps just a small little button stuck on the end of the Interface on the lower right hand side. Maybe make it the Dragons eye or something.

So you know that the game is paused? The full game does have the word paused at the top of the screen somewhere always when paused now.

This was the whole reason I came to the forum to post.
Sadly this has prevented me from purchasing the game.

It's long been accepted roughly 10 percent of the male population suffers from some form of color blindness.
Recent estimates place this number as high as 20 percent.

I do suffer from Color Blindness or more properly I suffer from Color vision deficiencies.
I have a great deal of difficulty telling similar color shades apart. Close shades of green & yellow are probably the worset.
People whom suffer from this problem tend to require bold colors very distinct from each other.

Unfortunately Steven, especially for the Relationship lines, you have picked the most common shades even those with mild Color deficiencies will be unable to distinguish between. For myself I simply cannot distinguish any of those thin graph lines apart and this problem becomes compounded once the lines start to weave & cross among themselves.

I picked the colors that made sense. :( I'll have to think of a good way to fix this. You can at least see what your relationship with all of the covenants is by highlighting the other covenant's logo.

The relationship line colors are basically green at the high end and red at the low end and then it colors it based on what your specific relationship is between those extremes. So the color is always a variation in between (which means you get yellow/orange colors in the middle).

If I add a way to change the extremes to different colors will this help or will you still have the same problem?

It sounds like you have a similar issue on the power and influence comparison screens, right?

I jotted down a list of 18 - 20 items and what an NPC Merchant would pay me and then compared it to what another Covenant would pay; in every case I was offered less money than the NPC Merchant was willing to pay.

That means the covenant really doesn't want the item. In general if they want the item they will pay more than the vendors, but if they don't they will pay about what the vendor will. Use the Anything you would like? button to see what items they do actually want to buy.

Quitch
09-12-2007, 03:05 PM
Just let me say the way this game handles new games is awesome. No grinding from level one again, you simply start again, but with those followers you recruited and stash you built up, so it's a fresh game but without tediously repeating stuff you've done. You're not punished for winning, you can continue to build your character.

Awesome :)


I'll look at the balance some, but guards can make a big difference. In a full raid you can only bring 6 attackers but the defending covenant can have 10 defenders. So guards can make raids much harder.

In theory, but since the only punishment for dying (and the respawn time for recruits is tiny) is losing lifestone health, what tends to happen is this (based on my two game experience:

You arrive.
You kill one or two guards.
AI arrives.
Fight lasts more than five seconds.
Every other AI arrives to join in.
AI under attack is pounded and pounded hard.

The AIs are such locusts that if you've got yourself into a position where you're going to come under attack, you're probably boned.

I do like the diplomacy though. In my win game I was staying close to the top two houses, and questing while selling them what they wanted to stay friendly, especially targeting the honourable house. Eventually we became friendly and they dropped to second. There was a house which looked pretty scary, so contacting my friends I arrange a raid, and we smashed 'em.

Never ally with the big guy, always work with the weaker fish to bring him down :)

I wonder about crystals though. Why do I want them? I get influence to get crystals which I spend on rumours to reduce other peoples influence so they have less crystals and can't rumour me. Sure I can buy guards with 'em, but I don't rate those much. Anything else? I'm unsure as to why crystals exist at all, surely it would have been better to earn money from taxes and buy guards with money, changing item prices accordingly.

It's based on what covenant did the most damage.

Ah, makes sense, thanks.

I started playing a warrior and kicking ass, but it got harder in middle levels (~15-20) when my DPS just couldn't keep up with badguy armor & health.

Hell, I don't find my Warrior's DPS has EVER kept up, and my level six warrior has a Unique weapon. In the end I use him more as a tank, with a relatively decent dex to avoid blows, and most of my skill points are in that massive blow type skill, which I hit over and over.

LDiCesare
09-12-2007, 04:22 PM
I wonder about crystals though. Why do I want them?

I also wonder about them. I buy a few guards just to be safe, but it's very low priority. I sometimes only go buy when raided (I can spare the time to buy them and come back).
I often end up with tons of crystals as I don't pay maintenance for them, and often have the most influence which helps winning the game through diplomacy but there's little difference between winning and winning an allied victory with less influence.
So I too think that influence and crystals should be useful in some other way. Influence could reduce prices at merchants for instance (and even then I often bathe in silver despite gifting all my found items to other covenants), but then crystals???

AnalogKid
09-12-2007, 09:24 PM
JI wonder about crystals though. Why do I want them? ... Sure I can buy guards with 'em, but I don't rate those much.
I actually find the guards very useful, but I guess that only applies if you're at risk of being attacked (or like to taunt others into attacking, like I do). If you're more dominant than other covenants and keep them friendly until you're ready to attack, then you obviously don't need much homeland security. :)

One thing about guards, like most things in most games you should go for munchkins. Don't get 4 average guards, just get the 1 most expensive one (and then more of the most expensive when you can). I especially like the saurian mage guardians because they have ranged attacks and regenerate so they are very unlikely to actually get killed before you whip so much crap out of the invading fools that they run crying back to mommy. With regen, they're back to top condition and ready for the next group of morons I can bait into attacking me. :D

Having said all that, I too would like to be able to trade influence/crystals for items/gold.

Thrugg
09-12-2007, 10:08 PM
One other thing, in regards to covenant relations. I've at times had games where I had friends (I guess I dont normally play well with others). I started up trade routes (two tiny), which from the way I read it, start at a negative amount, and get better over time. Is there any way to see the current status of a trade route?

It'd be handy if there was some breakdown page of what your income looks like:

Taxes: 15 crystals
Trade Route (Tiny) with Raid & Pillage: -5 crystals
Trade Route (Medium) with Immortals: 25 crystals
Guard Pay: 15 crystals
Total Income: 20 crystals

Unless I've missed a screen somewhere? :confused: Oh and more things to spend crystals on!

-Thrugg
________
LovelyWendie99 (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

Shadow
09-12-2007, 10:39 PM
One other thing, in regards to covenant relations. I've at times had games where I had friends (I guess I dont normally play well with others). I started up trade routes (two tiny), which from the way I read it, start at a negative amount, and get better over time. Is there any way to see the current status of a trade route?

It'd be handy if there was some breakdown page of what your income looks like:

Taxes: 15 crystals
Trade Route (Tiny) with Raid & Pillage: -5 crystals
Trade Route (Medium) with Immortals: 25 crystals
Guard Pay: 15 crystals
Total Income: 20 crystals

This probably isn't obvious but if you place the mouse cursor over the taxes amount of your covenant or any of the other covenants on the relations screen, it will give you a breakdown almost exactly like this.

Thrugg
09-13-2007, 12:35 AM
This probably isn't obvious but if you place the mouse cursor over the taxes amount of your covenant or any of the other covenants on the relations screen, it will give you a breakdown almost exactly like this.

Perfect! Just what I was looking for, I had been trying to hover over the line itself, which didnt do anything =)

Thanks,
-Thrugg
________
Extreme vaporizer (http://extremevaporizer.net/)

Ubbax
09-15-2007, 05:03 PM
I apologize for not replying sooner Steven, I had an out of town emergency to attend to.

I should clarify my earlier remark about uninstalling the Demo in disgust. I never meant this to sound harsh or reflect badly on the game.

It's a very good game; quite enjoyable with very addictive gameplay. It's also incredibly stable. Un-installing the demo was simply a knee-jerk reaction to allowing myself to be overly frustrated initially with having my enjoyable games consistently cut short by Covenants mobing me.

The diplomacy aspect of the game is not that transparent and I now realize it's a far more integral part of the game than I was allowing for. After re-installing I spent some time analyzing the diplomacy aspect and I've somewhat deduced why things were going the way they were. That's not to say they still don't kick me around but I fair better now.

I started fresh with a new world and Mage. The first 2 worlds, consisted of 7 Covenants each and both were lost. I only fought off 1 raid. Upon resuming the game the 3rd world was generated with 5 Covenants total. I found this much more manageable. I was able to defeat a Covenant that declared War on me and established a Non-aggression Pact with one of the others. Finally it was down to the Covenant I had established Pact with and myself. After about 1 hour 20 minutes of non-stop raiding I had my first win.

I'm sure you'll be happy to hear that I've gone ahead and purchased the game.
I'll get around to installing it later this evening.
Meanwhile my comments are still based off the Demo experience.

So you know that the game is paused? The full game does have the word paused at the top of the screen somewhere always when paused now.


What I was actually asking for was a button I could click with the mouse on the right side of the interface bar. Something similar to the "Show All Use Slots" button that exists on the lower left.

By the way if I toggle that extra row of 10 slots to display above the first 10, how do I configure hotkeys for them? Or can you only click them with the mouse?


I picked the colors that made sense. :( I'll have to think of a good way to fix this. You can at least see what your relationship with all of the covenants is by highlighting the other covenant's logo.

The relationship line colors are basically green at the high end and red at the low end and then it colors it based on what your specific relationship is between those extremes. So the color is always a variation in between (which means you get yellow/orange colors in the middle).

If I add a way to change the extremes to different colors will this help or will you still have the same problem?

It sounds like you have a similar issue on the power and influence comparison screens, right?


Here's the Relationship word and the color I see:
Love = bright green
Like = Tan
Neutral = Tan
Dislike = a darker Tan or Brown
Hate = Orange

As you can see it's not really the extremes that are the issue, although a bit thicker line would really help. A way to set the color of the middle 3 would be most beneficial. Any chance of allowing me set all 5 of them?

The middle 3 words/colors may seem trivial but I've learned that it's important to be able to determine the inter-relationships of the other covenants.

Interestingly the Power/Influence screens are not that bad for me.
The colors are usually diverse enough although occasionally 2 or 3 Covenants will have similar colors. Again I think increasing the width of the lines a bit here would really help. Can the lines be made to appear in bold? I think that might make them stand out a bit more.


That means the covenant really doesn't want the item. In general if they want the item they will pay more than the vendors, but if they don't they will pay about what the vendor will. Use the Anything you would like? button to see what items they do actually want to buy.

Thanks, that did the trick. It seems they take those items and equip their Recruits with them. Are they actually doing this?
If so no more gifting random Covenants with nice items heh.

The AI Covenants occasionally try to trade an item with me and I've also tried selecting items they had in inventory and trading for those. They always seem to want substantially more than they are ever willing to offer me.
Does your level of Relationship with a Covenant ever reduce the amount they ask you to pay for an item?
How about allowing us to make a counter offers or would that be better left till an expansion?

On occasion I've had 7 or 8 items in my inventory but when I enter the Trade screen only 2 or 3 items and sometimes none will displayed in the window for me to offer up for trade. This occurs no matter which Covenant I try to trade with.

I'm not sure about higher level Alliances or Pacts but the AI Covenants seem to want an inordinate amount of Influence & Crystals to establish a Non-Aggression Pact. I find your left in a very weakened state after setting one up.

On my 7th level Mage, Items that give a + to Defense are not being added.
example: My defense is 48 and I have Quilted Gloves with a +3 to Defense; the +3 is never added to the 48.

Currently you are able to equip 2 of the same Set item if they happen to be Jewlery or Ring.
Maybe not a big deal but it looks weird and feels wrong..

If you fill your 'shared stash chest" with bags which hold 6 items each and then open you Inventory; you only have access to the last 4 slots of your players inventory.

If I open either of the chests in my Covenant and then hit F11 to display Recruits inventory, it automatically closes the Chest Inventory lists. This is a pain because to compare items with what Recruits currently have equipped I have to move the item from my chest to my inventory and then put it back again.

For the inventory Interface issues movable windows would probably be the best all round solution. If that's not possible maybe some kind of tabed inventory panels (something similar to the Recruits panel perhaps).

Ubbax
"We don't stop playing because we grow old...
We grow old because we stop playing."

-George Bernard Shaw

Shadow
09-16-2007, 10:58 AM
By the way if I toggle that extra row of 10 slots to display above the first 10, how do I configure hotkeys for them? Or can you only click them with the mouse?

Currently there is no way to configure hotkeys for them.

As you can see it's not really the extremes that are the issue, although a bit thicker line would really help. A way to set the color of the middle 3 would be most beneficial. Any chance of allowing me set all 5 of them?

The middle 3 words/colors may seem trivial but I've learned that it's important to be able to determine the inter-relationships of the other covenants.

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of, since the line colors are all a continous shade between 2 colors, no matter what the 2 colors are it sounds like you will have an issue.

I can probably at least thicken the lines a bit. I'm also thinking about adding at least a general relation for each covenant when you highlight the covenant's icon. Basically like it does for you, but a little more general.

Thanks, that did the trick. It seems they take those items and equip their Recruits with them. Are they actually doing this?
If so no more gifting random Covenants with nice items heh.

If they actually want an item that is why they want it. :) So yeah they will equip items that you trade to them. So trading with them has positives and negatives. They like you more, in general you can get more money from them than the vendor, but they will likely get stronger because now they are using better equipment.

The AI Covenants occasionally try to trade an item with me and I've also tried selecting items they had in inventory and trading for those. They always seem to want substantially more than they are ever willing to offer me.
Does your level of Relationship with a Covenant ever reduce the amount they ask you to pay for an item?
How about allowing us to make a counter offers or would that be better left till an expansion?

You can usually make counter offers, just not on the same screen. Just say no to their offer and then go buy the item from them. When you ask what do you want for this it should give you close to the same price as before, but now you can lower this price to see if they will take less money for it. The less you pay for an item, the less the relation boost will be though.

On occasion I've had 7 or 8 items in my inventory but when I enter the Trade screen only 2 or 3 items and sometimes none will displayed in the window for me to offer up for trade. This occurs no matter which Covenant I try to trade with.

This is probably because you can't trade all items with the AI. The only items that will show up for trade are magic items of all kinds and weapons.

I'm not sure about higher level Alliances or Pacts but the AI Covenants seem to want an inordinate amount of Influence & Crystals to establish a Non-Aggression Pact. I find your left in a very weakened state after setting one up.

This depends on how much they like you. If they like you enough for a specific agreement they will take the agreement with nothing extra needed. But if they don't like you enough they will require crystals and/or influence to make the deal.

On my 7th level Mage, Items that give a + to Defense are not being added.
example: My defense is 48 and I have Quilted Gloves with a +3 to Defense; the +3 is never added to the 48.

I'll look into this and the other issues ypu posted.

And yes I am happy that you bought the game and getting your first win is cool. :)

AnalogKid
09-17-2007, 03:31 AM
If they actually want an item that is why they want it. :) So yeah they will equip items that you trade to them. So trading with them has positives and negatives. They like you more, in general you can get more money from them than the vendor, but they will likely get stronger because now they are using better equipment.

Do covenants carry over their equipment and such between games, or is it reset each time based on the covenant level?

Shadow
09-17-2007, 10:02 AM
The enemy covenants are completely new each game, so no they don't carry anything over.

Jedi_Learner
09-18-2007, 09:50 AM
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/8963/example01pd7.jpg

When you individually right click on any item that needs identifying, a small progress bar appears and when full, the item is identified. But you can get all your items identified at the Vendor and the other places for a price. Is there any cost for individually identifying each item (I haven't noticed any) yourself, or is the "Identify All" button at the vendors for convience and time?

Shadow
09-18-2007, 11:27 AM
If you identify the item yourself it is free (the only cost is time). So yes the vendor identify all option is there for convenience. It costs money, but saves you some time. It is also an easy way to see if you have any unidentified items sitting in your inventory.

Jedi_Learner
09-18-2007, 12:50 PM
Thanks Shadow, just wanted to check. :)

Pladio
09-18-2007, 03:12 PM
Isn't losing time also giving the enemy convenants a way to gain influence and power, while you're out there identifying ?
Do the computer players lose time as well for identifying items ? Or do they mostly identify at the shops ?

hedgewitch
09-19-2007, 01:22 AM
Great to see all the answers to almost all my questions! I just went ahead and bought the game and am really enjoying getting above level 7.

I just have one unanswered question left--is there a key combination that will keep your char stationary while you make a ranged attack?

In many games you can hold down the shift key, then hit your spell but this doesn't seem to do anything in DoP. Or is it my lack of coordination? Help!!! :)

AnalogKid
09-19-2007, 04:02 AM
I just have one unanswered question left--is there a key combination that will keep your char stationary while you make a ranged attack?
It's not _exactly_ what you asked, but you can use the right mouse button to target enemies without moving. Once they're targeted you can use your attack spells as normal (using hotkeys), again without moving. Hope that helps.

Ubbax
09-19-2007, 04:17 AM
Great to see all the answers to almost all my questions! I just went ahead and bought the game and am really enjoying getting above level 7.

I just have one unanswered question left--is there a key combination that will keep your char stationary while you make a ranged attack?

In many games you can hold down the shift key, then hit your spell but this doesn't seem to do anything in DoP. Or is it my lack of coordination? Help!!! :)

Nice to see you here Hedgewitch :)

To remain stationary what you need do is Right-click on the monster (this will select it as your target) and then press the Hot-Key associated with the spell you want to cast.

It takes a bit of getting used to but once you do it works well.
Initially my common tendency was to keep pressing the left mouse button, but if you do that your character runs up to the monster and then casts.

I keep repeating to myself:
Left-click to select for melee attack, Right-click to select for spell attack (or ranged attack).

Ubbax
"We don't stop playing because we grow old...
We grow old because we stop playing."

-George Bernard Shaw

Shadow
09-19-2007, 10:09 AM
Isn't losing time also giving the enemy convenants a way to gain influence and power, while you're out there identifying ?
Do the computer players lose time as well for identifying items ? Or do they mostly identify at the shops ?

Yes, technically you are losing ground to the other covenants while identifying, altough it is a pretty small amount. The other covenants don't exactly take time to identify items but, they do lose time in other ways.

hedgewitch
09-19-2007, 03:06 PM
Thanks, Ubbax & AnalogKid. That's exactly what I was looking for. I'll just have to control my left-clicking muscles and get used to it. Anything that will keep my mage from rushing straight at a mob of melee monsters while casting has got to be an improvement. :)

AnalogKid
09-19-2007, 03:44 PM
Hedgewitch: You're welcome. I enjoy this game, and what's more I think its implementation of direct competitors is one of the best "innovations" in recent times, so I'm happy to do whatever I can to support it, including helping people enjoy it so they tell others.

Ok, ok, it's not exactly an innovation, as it's been done before, but not like this and not recently (remember the Oblivion promises to have competing adventurers that would accomplish things if you didn't? :o Ha!). Anyway...

Yes, technically you are losing ground to the other covenants while identifying, altough it is a pretty small amount.
The way I minimize this is that I identify things while running from place to place in town (no monsters so no problems having the inventory obscuring most of the screen), and while getting healed at my lifestone. Those are both times that I'd just be wasting time anyway, so I might as well be identifying!

Delilah Rehm
09-19-2007, 08:51 PM
The way I minimize this is that I identify things while running from place to place in town (no monsters so no problems having the inventory obscuring most of the screen), and while getting healed at my lifestone. Those are both times that I'd just be wasting time anyway, so I might as well be identifying!

I do this too!!

hedgewitch
09-21-2007, 03:35 AM
Back with another quick question for you guys--I am now gaining experience at 1/2 the normal rate because I have something called an "experience debt." :confused:

I've browsed the manual and several other threads here, but can't find any explanation ( but it's probably here somewhere and I missed it...) What caused this little white bar thingy and will it go away eventually?

Thanks in advance. :)

Ubbax
09-21-2007, 04:27 AM
Back with another quick question for you guys--I am now gaining experience at 1/2 the normal rate because I have something called an "experience debt." :confused:


Heh well you must have finally died, thus the "experience debt".


I've browsed the manual and several other threads here, but can't find any explanation ( but it's probably here somewhere and I missed it...) What caused this little white bar thingy and will it go away eventually?

Thanks in advance. :)

When you die you drop a "Soulstone". If you choose to go back and pick up your "Soulstone" the "Experience Debt" (white bar) is removed and you will regain experience at the normal rate again.

or if you prefer

Do not go get your "Soulstone" and it will go away on its own once you pay off the experience debt; then you will regain experience at the normal rate.

Added by Edit: Soulstones show up on the map as White Dots.

I know this is mentioned/covered in the in-game tutorial but I don't recall if it's in the Manual.
I know there was also a bug related to "Soulstones" and getting back experience which Steven addressed in the recent v1.002 patch; you might want to install that. Steven refers to v1.002 as a beta patch, however I've yet to encounter any issues running with it ;)

Ubbax
"We don't stop playing because we grow old...
We grow old because we stop playing."

-George Bernard Shaw

Shadow
09-21-2007, 09:47 AM
Like Ubbax said, you get experience debt when you die. Picking up the soulstone reduces the xp debt a lot, but doesn't get rid of it completely.

Xp debt just means you will get 1/2 experience until it is paid off. The xp debt will be paid off when you get experience equal to the debt, basically when your experience bar passes the white notch.

hedgewitch
09-21-2007, 11:18 PM
Ubbax wrote:
Heh well you must have finally died, thus the "experience debt".
Yes, I died. Then I died again. Then I believe I died some more.(Raid issues)

I had a feeling that might have had something to do with it. :)

I did pick up a few soulstones, but obviously not ALL of them. Thanks Shadow for the extra details on when the evil whiteness will go away.

JBarrett
09-21-2007, 11:35 PM
Hi. Very addictive game you've got here. I have one suggestion though, it would be great if there was an option to disable using things (picking up objects, toggling light sources, opening doors and chests) without the Alt key being held down. I end up accidentally doing all of that during the heat of battle. More options to increase the difficulty would be nice too, as even 6 aggressive covenants that are 5 levels higher don't present enough of a challenge past any initial gang-rush very early on. Otherwise it's a great hidden gem you've got here, hope it does well.

Ubbax
09-25-2007, 02:29 AM
Thanks for all your earlier comments and clarifications Shadow.

So I've been playing Retail with Beta Patch v1.002 applied for a while now and the changes are much appreciated.

As usual I have some comments and questions, so here we go..



Originally Posted by Ubbax
As you can see it's not really the extremes that are the issue, although a bit thicker line would really help. A way to set the color of the middle 3 would be most beneficial. Any chance of allowing me set all 5 of them?

The middle 3 words/colors may seem trivial but I've learned that it's important to be able to determine the inter-relationships of the other covenants.


Yeah, that's what I was afraid of, since the line colors are all a continous shade between 2 colors, no matter what the 2 colors are it sounds like you will have an issue.

I can probably at least thicken the lines a bit. I'm also thinking about adding at least a general relation for each covenant when you highlight the covenant's icon. Basically like it does for you, but a little more general.


The thickening of the line colors really helps a lot, especially for the Power and Influence comparison screens. Distinction between similar Line colors jumps out now. As for the Lines on the Relationship screen; I am finally able to distinguish between Neutral and Dislike with a bit of difficulty however the difference between Like and Neutral is somewhat tougher.
I was wondering Steven if you might consider changing the color of Neutral to a white line or perhaps adding an option to enable we "color deficient handicaps" the ability to do so?

The little mouse-over window containing the Covenant Relationship percentages is a very nice touch. Very useful when you want to manipulate relations between other Covenants. Actually if a way could be found to add the Relationship word to the matching percentage on that mouse-over window, problems "color deficient handicaps" suffer would be gone.

1) Books only affect your player character, correct? Do other Covenants collect Books?

2) I found 3 attribute potions with a very large bonus & would like to place 2 in the " Shared Stash" How do you pull 1 item off a stack?

3) Does an item with +1 Mana/Faith Regeneration add .2% or an actual 1 to the total Regeneration rate ?
.... Which leads to the next question:
3a) Might I be missing it or is the Mana / Faith Regen total of a Player Character / Recruit not displayed anywhere?

4) Why does a Recruit, in this case a Level-9 Rogue, get a Bonus like +10 Intelligence when they do not have the Required Int to get it?

5) I have a Recruit Mage-Lvl-3 with Fiery Spell-2, Lightning Ball-0, Ice Storm-0, Earthquake-0.
What determines when a Recruit purchases his Skills?
Is the order they cast spells during Raids or when Adventuring completely random?

6) I have a Recruit Rogue level-9: How does she use a Skill which requires a Distraction, say Rupture, when she has no Distraction Skill to activate it?

I recruited a 6th level Mage with Armormelt 2; This is enough to put a 10th level Warrior Recruits Armor severly negative. Armormelt is not an Elemental spell, it falls under Magic. Priests have no buff they can cast to counter it.

Since we cannot see the resistances of Recruits Iím curious as to how this is dealt with?
Are spell effects removed when the mage that casted them dies?

Ubbax
"We don't stop playing because we grow old...
We grow old because we stop playing."

-George Bernard Shaw

Shadow
09-25-2007, 10:01 AM
I was wondering Steven if you might consider changing the color of Neutral to a white line or perhaps adding an option to enable we "color deficient handicaps" the ability to do so?

Well currently there is no neutral line color, it is simply a shade between green and red.

The little mouse-over window containing the Covenant Relationship percentages is a very nice touch. Very useful when you want to manipulate relations between other Covenants. Actually if a way could be found to add the Relationship word to the matching percentage on that mouse-over window, problems "color deficient handicaps" suffer would be gone.

You mean add like, neutral, dislike, etc also next to the actual percent?

1) Books only affect your player character, correct? Do other Covenants collect Books?

Yes, books only effect your character and no the other covenants don't collect them.

2) I found 3 attribute potions with a very large bonus & would like to place 2 in the " Shared Stash" How do you pull 1 item off a stack?

I was wondering if anyone would ever fine a good reason to split a stack. Right now there is no way to split a stack.

3) Does an item with +1 Mana/Faith Regeneration add .2% or an actual 1 to the total Regeneration rate ?
.... Which leads to the next question:
3a) Might I be missing it or is the Mana / Faith Regen total of a Player Character / Recruit not displayed anywhere?

It does add 1 to the regen rate. There isn't a single number that is displayed anywhere, but it is basically the regen rate from intelligence + spirit + any bonuses you have.

4) Why does a Recruit, in this case a Level-9 Rogue, get a Bonus like +10 Intelligence when they do not have the Required Int to get it?

Where are you seeing a bonus of +10 int for a recruit?

5) I have a Recruit Mage-Lvl-3 with Fiery Spell-2, Lightning Ball-0, Ice Storm-0, Earthquake-0.
What determines when a Recruit purchases his Skills?
Is the order they cast spells during Raids or when Adventuring completely random?


For the most part recruits go for the cheapest skill next (skill point wise). The only special cases right now are the armor skills which recruits will go for a little earlier.

Recruits have a priority scheme that controls which spell they will cast next. There is a bit of randomess added on top of that though.

6) I have a Recruit Rogue level-9: How does she use a Skill which requires a Distraction, say Rupture, when she has no Distraction Skill to activate it?

The skills should work the same for the recruits as they do for the player. In this case though, rupture can also be used after the enemy blocks, parries, defects an attack, or when the rogue is stealthed. So assuming the recruit doesn't have a distraction skill or stealth, she will only use the skill when the enemy blocks, parries, or deflects one of her attacks.

I recruited a 6th level Mage with Armormelt 2; This is enough to put a 10th level Warrior Recruits Armor severly negative. Armormelt is not an Elemental spell, it falls under Magic. Priests have no buff they can cast to counter it.

Since we cannot see the resistances of Recruits Iím curious as to how this is dealt with?
Are spell effects removed when the mage that casted them dies?



Dealt with how? If you are asking about how a negative armor value works, it should be the same as having no armor. If you are asking about resisting the spell, there isn't a way to resist an armormelt spell currently.

No, effects will not go away when the mage dies.

AnalogKid
09-25-2007, 04:08 PM
I was wondering if anyone would ever fine a good reason to split a stack. Right now there is no way to split a stack.

Here's an idea (haven't tested it yet, but I think it'll work):

- Go to a vendor and sell one of the potions in the stack. This will put it in the "recently sold" queue.

- Drop the rest of the potions to the ground (don't close the vendor, just drag from inventory to the screen somewhere to drop).

- Buy back the "recently sold" potion for the same price as you sold it.

Now you've got a single in your inventory and the rest on the ground. Go do what you want with the single and then come back and pick up those on the ground.

Shadow
09-25-2007, 06:26 PM
That should actually work. Just don't leave the items on the ground or on the vendor too long. Items on the ground will eventually go away and can also be lost if you lose the game and the vendor's items will probably not stay if he or she dies.

Thrugg
09-25-2007, 06:27 PM
Thanks for all your earlier comments and clarifications Shadow.

4) Why does a Recruit, in this case a Level-9 Rogue, get a Bonus like +10 Intelligence when they do not have the Required Int to get it?
Ubbax
"We don't stop playing because we grow old...
We grow old because we stop playing."

-George Bernard Shaw

I'd bet that it is a special power that the recruit has, much like what you'd see on an enemy hero/champion/boss. I've only seen a couple of my recruits have these (+10 str on one, +25% armor on another).

As far as I know, recruits just have a *very* small chance of having one of these powers, and getting a recruit/power that matches up is maybe even more rare. Later on in the game it's probably what will really set them apart. Either that or it's just a bug, but I think it's supposed to be that way! =) It'll show up under their name/hp bar as a buff, as well as on their character sheet.

If you find a really good one, it's probably a good recruit to keep for the long haul (plate wearing warrior with a +25% armor bonus would be awesome).

-Thrugg
________
SEX ADVICE DICUSSION (http://www.love-help.org/sex-advice/)

Ubbax
09-26-2007, 12:29 AM
1)

Originally Posted by Ubbax
The little mouse-over window containing the Covenant Relationship percentages is a very nice touch. Very useful when you want to manipulate relations between other Covenants. Actually if a way could be found to add the Relationship word to the matching percentage on that mouse-over window, problems "color deficient handicaps" suffer would be gone.

You mean add like, neutral, dislike, etc also next to the actual percent?


Yes that's exactly what I meant. Of course I realize you might prefer not to do that for various design reasons.


2)

Originally Posted by Shadow

Originally Posted by Ubbax
2) I found 3 attribute potions with a very large bonus & would like to place 2 in the " Shared Stash" How do you pull 1 item off a stack?

I was wondering if anyone would ever fine a good reason to split a stack. Right now there is no way to split a stack.

Here's an idea (haven't tested it yet, but I think it'll work):

- Go to a vendor and sell one of the potions in the stack. This will put it in the "recently sold" queue.

- Drop the rest of the potions to the ground (don't close the vendor, just drag from inventory to the screen somewhere to drop).

- Buy back the "recently sold" potion for the same price as you sold it.

Now you've got a single in your inventory and the rest on the ground. Go do what you want with the single and then come back and pick up those on the ground.

I ended up figuring that out AnalogKid and as Shadow pointed out it does work with the caveat you need to get it off the ground soon.


3)
Dealt with how? If you are asking about how a negative armor value works, it should be the same as having no armor. If you are asking about resisting the spell, there isn't a way to resist an armormelt spell currently.

No, effects will not go away when the mage dies.

Those are both the answers I was looking for, thanks.

By the way I wasn't hinting that there perhaps should be a way to resist Armormelt, however under certain situations (specific to Recruits) the spell is extremely potent especially in combination with others. Here's why I asked this question:

In one of my games I missed recruiting a 5th level Mage which had Fiery Blast, Blinding Flash, Armormelt, Deep Thought. He was picked up by another Covenant. Those spells the Mage had later proved to be a deadly combination.

I was holding my own and seemed to face a sure victory when the competing Covenant, a short time later, raided me with that Mage & a level 5 Rogue. I had a fairly well equipped level 8 Warrior and 2 Desert Saurian Mage Guards but the Rogue with the assistance of those Mage spells sliced up my crew like butter. I had a backup made just before the Raid so I replayed it several times to see what the heck happened. I always lost the battle.


4)
Where are you seeing a bonus of +10 int for a recruit?

Click the pic..



5)

Originally Posted by Ubbax
Thanks for all your earlier comments and clarifications Shadow.

4) Why does a Recruit, in this case a Level-9 Rogue, get a Bonus like +10 Intelligence when they do not have the Required Int to get it?
Ubbax
"We don't stop playing because we grow old...
We grow old because we stop playing."

-George Bernard Shaw

I'd bet that it is a special power that the recruit has, much like what you'd see on an enemy hero/champion/boss. I've only seen a couple of my recruits have these (+10 str on one, +25% armor on another).

As far as I know, recruits just have a *very* small chance of having one of these powers, and getting a recruit/power that matches up is maybe even more rare. Later on in the game it's probably what will really set them apart. Either that or it's just a bug, but I think it's supposed to be that way! =) It'll show up under their name/hp bar as a buff, as well as on their character sheet.

If you find a really good one, it's probably a good recruit to keep for the long haul (plate wearing warrior with a +25% armor bonus would be awesome).

-Thrugg

That is what I suspected it might be Thrugg.
It's the first time I see an Attribute Bonus though and one that you would receive later by meeting the required Attribute level.
--> Bug: yeah or neah, only the Shadow knows..

Ubbax
"We don't stop playing because we grow old...
We grow old because we stop playing."

-George Bernard Shaw

Shadow
09-26-2007, 10:38 AM
Yeah, that is not a bug. Thrugg is correct. What you are seeing is an enhancement, very similar to what champion and elite monsters have. It is rare for NPCs to have any enhancements at all, but if they do they can get from 1 to 4 of them and there are minor and normal versions of each enhancement type. So needless to say, recruits with enhancements can be worth hanging on to.

miller41
09-27-2007, 07:06 AM
Just wanted to add my well done to the large group of people who like this game. I downloaded it tonight without playing the demo based on comments from this forum and I played for 4 hours on the easy level and still got owned in the end. Loads of fun, with enough RPG elements to make it enjoyable and combat that I enjoy. Having to try and adventure while at the same time trying to dominate the town is loads of fun and I am sure it will spend a long time on my hard drive. Great work.

Shadow
09-27-2007, 12:10 PM
Welcome to the forums miller41. I'm really glad that you are enjoying the game, especially since you skipped the demo. :)

Corvus Corax
09-28-2007, 03:05 AM
One of the most addictive games I've played in years. My other games, both old and new, have gone on hold while I pour hour after hour into DoP. Great game!