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Shadow
07-24-2009, 02:07 PM
Most of this week I've been working on monsters. I've had a lot I could say about the monsters, but I've hesitated because I don't want to spoil too many of the surprises in the game. To show a bit of the direction I'm going with the monsters, but not contain too many spoilers I'm going to talk about the undead. This will contain some spoilers so if that will bother you, don't read any further.

We have had zombies, skeletons, and liches in both of our previous games and I think they were cool in both games. Here's how they work in DoP and Kivi: Skeletons are slow and have melee and ranged versions. Zombies are usually slow, but every once in a while can get a huge movement speed bonus. Liches can raise the dead and have draining and ranged attacks.

In the dungeon crawl, they can still do everything they did before but they also have a lot more depth. First of all skeletons and zombies aren't very bright. When they are uncontrolled they will attack just about anything. So you might find a group of zombies attacking a couple hulks. We've had monsters fight monsters before, but what happens if the zombies kill one of the hulks? If you have watched any zombie movies before you know the answer. Up rises an undead version of the hulk, but now it fights on the side of the undead and the other hulk is screwed. Of course, after they have killed and infected the other hulk, you are likely to be next.

If there was a lich nearby everything would be different. The lich will take control of all of the zombies and they will only attack what the lich allows them to, so in this case they will ignore the hulks and come straight after you. They also act more as a group. If you attack one of the zombies the lich will know and will tell all of his zombies to go kill you. Did I mention that controlled zombies are also faster and stronger? Well they are. If you manage to kill the lich though, the zombies will go back to their uncontrolled behavior and lose their bonuses.

These new changes have other ramifications that are going to be interesting. I'm pretty sure there is going to be a world modifier that increased the chances of undead. When this happens are the undead just going to kill off all of the other monsters? What happens when a horde of zombies attacks the town? How are you going to feel about killing your own npcs after they are zombies?

As usual I think all of the interactions are going to make this a very interesting game and these are just the changes to these 3 types of monsters. I have made a lot of changes to other monsters this week. We will also have a number of new monster types.

torikamal
07-24-2009, 06:48 PM
I seriously can't wait!

SharpCarlos
07-24-2009, 10:56 PM
These new changes have other ramifications that are going to be interesting. I'm pretty sure there is going to be a world modifier that increased the chances of undead. When this happens are the undead just going to kill off all of the other monsters?

See, THIS is why I'm so anxious to play this game. I think linear games with stories that are set in stone are fine, but they're not really living up the potential of interactive entertainment. Movies, books, and plays can tell linear stories, but only games can set me loose in a clockwork world and let me muck around and see what happens.

You mentioned in another post that you can get away with this stuff because each adventure is relatively small, and I think that's an excellent point. I wouldn't want a 100 hour epic RPG to have a random zombie outbreak that kills off all the rest of the monsters in the world (okay, maybe I would, but a normal person wouldn't), and I SURE wouldn't want, at hour 99 of the game, to have those zombies kill all the NPC's and quest givers. But spending one evening in that world sounds fantastic. Especially since the next evening my character might end up exploring a dungeon filled with glowing mushrooms and populated entirely by pixies. Okay, silly example, but you see my point.

The thought that I could play an action-RPG and genuinely have no idea what I'm in for every time I enter a new dungeon is just awesome.

(name here)
08-23-2009, 07:55 PM
If you have watched any zombie movies before you know the answer. Up rises an undead version of the hulk, but now it fights on the side of the undead and the other hulk is screwed. Of course, after they have killed and infected the other hulk, you are likely to be next.


That will be interesting, though town attacks will likely be a bit more devestating than might be desired, especially if player zombies rise
How are you going to feel about killing your own npcs after they are zombies?


I suspect that most players have seen a bit too many zombie movies to have any particular hesitation with re-killing them.

Delilah Rehm
08-24-2009, 03:11 PM
I love zombies!!!

ShaggyMoose
08-30-2009, 09:01 PM
Everything in the original post is cool.

So, can we cure zombie NPCs?

Delilah Rehm
08-31-2009, 09:27 AM
Curing zombies? Now that would be an interesting option... But it sounds tricky. Umm... Not to mention severely dangerous! :D

Can you imagine running all over town trying to avoid the zombies so you can try some 50/50 thing to save them, all while hoping you're not kiting them to other infection-free npcs?

Shadow
08-31-2009, 09:31 AM
Right now there is no way to cure being a zombie. Of course being a zombie means the npc has already died, so I'm not sure there should be a cure.

scragar
08-31-2009, 08:25 PM
Right now there is no way to cure being a zombie. Of course being a zombie means the npc has already died, so I'm not sure there should be a cure.

If like in DoP there's a way to resurrect people there should be a way to revive zombies, even if it's just killing the zombie and waiting for them to resurrect as humans.

Personally I think having someone resurrected though should be harder than that, if turning someone back from stone in DoP needed a quest reviving them should take at least as much work.

Shadow
09-01-2009, 09:52 AM
If like in DoP there's a way to resurrect people there should be a way to revive zombies, even if it's just killing the zombie and waiting for them to resurrect as humans.

Personally I think having someone resurrected though should be harder than that, if turning someone back from stone in DoP needed a quest reviving them should take at least as much work.

Right now when someone dies, they are dead forever in that town. Having a hard quest to resurrect them might be interesting though.

Boaal
10-03-2009, 10:25 AM
I think it would be cool to kill the zombie npc's, and after a while the CPU would spawn a new placeholder NPC in the same location with the same function but a different name and possibly model.

Delilah Rehm
10-03-2009, 10:33 AM
So it'd be like the never-ending zombie. Hmmm...

Dagof
11-08-2009, 10:55 AM
Most of this week I've been working on monsters. I've had a lot I could say about the monsters, but I've hesitated because I don't want to spoil too many of the surprises in the game. To show a bit of the direction I'm going with the monsters, but not contain too many spoilers I'm going to talk about the undead. This will contain some spoilers so if that will bother you, don't read any further.

We have had zombies, skeletons, and liches in both of our previous games and I think they were cool in both games. Here's how they work in DoP and Kivi: Skeletons are slow and have melee and ranged versions. Zombies are usually slow, but every once in a while can get a huge movement speed bonus. Liches can raise the dead and have draining and ranged attacks.

In the dungeon crawl, they can still do everything they did before but they also have a lot more depth. First of all skeletons and zombies aren't very bright. When they are uncontrolled they will attack just about anything. So you might find a group of zombies attacking a couple hulks. We've had monsters fight monsters before, but what happens if the zombies kill one of the hulks? If you have watched any zombie movies before you know the answer. Up rises an undead version of the hulk, but now it fights on the side of the undead and the other hulk is screwed. Of course, after they have killed and infected the other hulk, you are likely to be next.

If there was a lich nearby everything would be different. The lich will take control of all of the zombies and they will only attack what the lich allows them to, so in this case they will ignore the hulks and come straight after you. They also act more as a group. If you attack one of the zombies the lich will know and will tell all of his zombies to go kill you. Did I mention that controlled zombies are also faster and stronger? Well they are. If you manage to kill the lich though, the zombies will go back to their uncontrolled behavior and lose their bonuses.

These new changes have other ramifications that are going to be interesting. I'm pretty sure there is going to be a world modifier that increased the chances of undead. When this happens are the undead just going to kill off all of the other monsters? What happens when a horde of zombies attacks the town? How are you going to feel about killing your own npcs after they are zombies?

As usual I think all of the interactions are going to make this a very interesting game and these are just the changes to these 3 types of monsters. I have made a lot of changes to other monsters this week. We will also have a number of new monster types.
What if you allow the zombies to have a weaknes because then the player won,t have a 50/50 chance to live and being "Lucky" doesn,t exist or not that much,the players will then have to use skill to get out of the Problem for example:The Zombies weaknes is fire and the mage will here have the best advantage but there must be a way the more melee type and stealth will have a advantage like getting magic swords or piotions or ways to kill the Zombies that kind of things

Dlover
01-08-2010, 02:57 AM
I don't think anyone's said this yet, but wouldn't there need to be a lich nearby to raise the things zombies kill? Therefore, a code could be added to work out what sort of chance a group of controlled creatures has against another group. if the chance is high, the lich could send the zombies to attack the other group for the sole purpose of raising them as undead, possibly making them stronger.

I also think there should be creatures that would be able to defend the lich, say if a mob of skeletons is standing next to a lich and you try shooting the lich with a bow, the lich would tell the skeletons to intercept the arrow, stopping damage to the lich, unless the arrow has enough force to go through the skeletons and still hit the lich.

On the subject of arrows passing through skeletons, either the arrow could break some of their bones, giving them negative effects to defence, attack speed, etc and also weaken the arrow. Or, if the player is lucky enough, you could try adding something so that attacks can miss the skeletons, sliding between the bones.

Getting between bones could be good or bad. If you are trying to hit something behind the skeleton, it would be good, but if you are trying to hit the skeleton, it would be bad.

I know this is a lot of ideas, and that it would take a lot of scripting, and maybe the passing between bones could even be impossible. But they would add a great amount of fun to the game. for me at least.

Shadow
01-08-2010, 10:56 AM
When a monster is killed by a zombie or skeleton they aren't raised exactly, they are infected and they come back to life as undead. A lich can raise most anything regardless of what killed them.

It would be interesting for arrows and things to sometimes go through skeletons and keep going (that might be beyond what we can do for Din though).

A skeleton wouldn't have enough time to directly step in the way of an incoming arrow, but they will defend their lich if they have one.

Welcome to the forums Dlover.

Dlover
01-08-2010, 05:02 PM
Infection by zombies I can understand, but skeletons don't carry a disease, they are just bones being held together by necromancy, and as far as I know about it, necromancy isn't contagious.

Maybe creatures infected by zombies could have some bonuses and penalties for it as well, say, the strengths of the creature the zombies killed, but the weaknesses of zombies.

Shadow
01-08-2010, 08:14 PM
In this particular world, skeletons are merely older zombies that have lost most of their flesh.

Infected monsters and npcs act mostly like what they use to, but are slower.

Dlover
01-08-2010, 08:59 PM
ok then, that makes sense.