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Shadow
08-14-2009, 02:24 PM
First sorry for no news for the last few weeks. I was hiking in Colorado with the family. It was very nice. :)

Quests in the dungeon crawl (which I really need to name soon) are going to be similar in some ways to the quests in Depths of Peril. Like DoP they are going to be random, they will be able to spawn more quests, you will be able to fail quests, and they can have consequences if you fail them or just solve them too slowly. There are many differences though.

Each town has a few quests that need to be solved and these will be different for every single town. This is why you are here. You are the hero come to save the town. Each adventure will start with different quests, will have a different town with different npcs, and will have different world modifiers. But even if everything started the same, the adventure would still play out differently each time. The quests can branch differently, new random quests will spawn, and everything responds to what you do or don't do.

In DoP, the system could spawn more quests during a quest. For example, a unique monster could send an assassin to town. This can still happen, but now the game tells you who sent the assassin to town. This way you see the connections between the quests better. In this game though, the system can also spawn more quests when you fail a quest, complete a quest, or solve a quest.

Warning: spoiler next. For example, not all npcs are what they seem. Yesterday I added a new escort quest. It works exactly like a normal escort quest until you complete it. This is where the npc betrays you, goes renegade, ambushes you with a group of monsters, and attacks you. Most escort question will be what you expect, but every once in a while you might just be surprised. :) I'm hoping to have potential twists to all of the quests to keep things a bit interesting.

There will also be more variations of each type of quest. DoP had town attacks which were really cool and they had variations because the monster type was different each time. However, in the dungeon crawl I'm thinking of at least having raids, town attacks, and invasions. Town attacks would be similar to DoP town attacks. Raids would be fairly quick attacks that stop on their own. Invasions would be major, full out assaults. All three are basically town attacks, but they are different enough to add a bit of flavor.

I still have one question that I haven't quite answered yet. How specific do I want to make quests? I can make hardcoded quest chains just like most games that are very specific and statically chain to the next quest. If we do this it would be completely random when the quest chain would start though. This would make each quest a bit more immersive, but only the first time. The second time you see the quest, it's boring. Or do I make all of the quests a bit less specific, so that they are always more replayable? This way seems a bit less immersive on the first pass, but you are never going to know what happens before hand even if you have seen this exact quest before. Each time it might branch differently.

Any thoughts? Any cool quest ideas?

SharpCarlos
08-16-2009, 04:16 PM
That all sounds really cool!


I still have one question that I haven't quite answered yet. How specific do I want to make quests?

I vote for quests that are less-specific/more-random. Mainly for the reasons you cite (in a game with this much focus on randomization and replayability, I don't want anything to damage that), but for another reason as well. If I'm playing over and over with the same character, I want to maintain the fiction that he's going on one long series of adventures, traveling from town to town. If any quest elements are too specific and repeat, it breaks that illusion.

icekrystal10
08-16-2009, 11:28 PM
I agree with SharpCarlos, but I think there should be an overarching goal to the game. There has to be an overall reason why the character exists in the world. How he gets to the end can be random, but why is he adventuring in the first place? If that makes sense.

Shadow
08-17-2009, 10:42 AM
I agree with SharpCarlos, but I think there should be an overarching goal to the game. There has to be an overall reason why the character exists in the world. How he gets to the end can be random, but why is he adventuring in the first place? If that makes sense.

Hmm, that could be interesting. You definitely have a purpose at the town level, but I haven't thought of any greater goal. Any ideas?

scragar
08-17-2009, 04:44 PM
Hmm, that could be interesting. You definitely have a purpose at the town level, but I haven't thought of any greater goal. Any ideas?

How cliché do you want it? :p

Shadow
08-17-2009, 07:47 PM
Cliché or not, I would like to hear ideas.

SharpCarlos
08-17-2009, 08:31 PM
So, are we talking about an overall purpose that leads to an end-point? Like, an actual "You've saved enough towns, now you win" sort of thing? Because I'd rather not see that happen. I like the idea that I can just keep running a character over and over again, forever.

Or are we talking about simply having some sort of backstory for the character? As in, "Why is THIS guy running around saving towns?" My first thought was "Yeah, that'd be cool, and it should be randomized, like so many other things in the game." But then I realized that I'd rather have that in my control, as part of character creation. What if we got to choose a backstory, and our choice also had some small (non-game-breaking) effect? Like a bonus of some sort?

Combining the two approaches: what if my backstory ALSO gave my character some over-arching goal? Simple example:

Backstory: parents were murdered by zombies, I want revenge.
Bonus: extra damage to the undead.
Goal: kill 1,000 undead creatures.

So, in choosing my backstory, I'm also choosing my "ending", and my choices will impact how I play the game. If I'm in a dungeon with few or no undead, I'll just burn through it as fast as possible. If I'm in a "horror" themed dungeon with tons of undead, I'll scour every level for enemies.

A more sophisticated version of this concept would cause the reaching of my goal to trigger one final dungeon that ties into my backstory (in this example, the final boss would be the necromancer responsible for my parents' death). I could still keep playing beyond that (I'm still a good guy who wants to save more towns), but I've achieved sort of a win condition for that character.

Other backstories (along with bonuses and goals, should the game go that direction):

Background: You're the Chosen One, foretold by prophecy to save the land (hey, you said you were okay with cliches!).
Bonus: lower prices in shops, on account of being Chosen and all.
Goal: Finish X number of dungeons.

Background: Raised in poverty, you're trying to find your fortune.
Bonus: monsters drop more gold.
Goal: accumulate X amount of wealth.

Background: You just want to be famous.
Bonus: increased XP from completing quests.
Goal: reach the level cap.

Background: You run a museum, and are a collector of antiquities.
Bonus: higher "luck" / more item drops.
Goal: collect X number of items of whatever the highest tier of rarity is.

I guess I'm sort of suggesting that the game track and reward the players for achieving the kinds of goals they'd set for themselves anyway. In spite of what I said earlier, now I kind of LIKE the idea of a "win" condition for my characters, as long as A) I get to choose it, and B) I get to keep playing with that same character even after I achieve it. And, I guess, C) it should be fairly difficult and time consuming. We already have the bite-sized short term goals (finish a dungeon and save the town). The overarching goal should be a pretty big deal.

fab
08-18-2009, 05:12 PM
Quest : won't you use an overall story like you did in DoP ? I thought the story quests rather simple (go kill XYZ);, but still gives a sense of progression in the game. If they're not that complicated to use, why remove it?

If I undestood correctly, the setting is similar to DoP except that the town is randomized?

Will you have an overal map?

Maybe you can randomize town contents but still have a large map, and towns can have some fixed settings and variable settings.

Then after doing X amount of towns you can complete the map. Starting a new world would mean a new collection of towns, and a new adventure.

If each town has its "fixed" story then you can use that to flag the town as completed, and then the world as completed.

Then players who like some type of story quests better can go for those first, and maybe some thematics, eg: jungle setting ,desert setting, instead of being completely random can be according to location on the world map?


---

Random ideas:

Once had this idea that a hero would need to reincarnate into various "facets" in order to fully complete the game. Hence playing as a warrior, a mage type, an archer type, etc. The game would track the overall completion, I had this vague image of classes displayed on a wheel (the wheel of "karma"), and once the 4 or 5 points on the wheel are complete then the "hero" would be complete. As for what happened next I dont know but it's something that could be developed.

To make the game more interesting your character would get some kind of bonus or skill usable from the previous "incarnation". So gameplay changes a little bit based on the order you go onto that wheel.

It would have been funny to see marks of previous deeds into the game world, commemorative statue or monument, tales recounted by NPC's, relating to another "facet" of the same hero.

SharpCarlos I like the backstory related to the character!

Shadow
08-18-2009, 05:23 PM
So, are we talking about an overall purpose that leads to an end-point? Like, an actual "You've saved enough towns, now you win" sort of thing? Because I'd rather not see that happen. I like the idea that I can just keep running a character over and over again, forever.

Well that is kind of what we are talking about here yes. Right now there isn't an end goal.

Quest : won't you use an overall story like you did in DoP ? I thought the story quests rather simple (go kill XYZ);, but still gives a sense of progression in the game. If they're not that complicated to use, why remove it?

If I undestood correctly, the setting is similar to DoP except that the town is randomized?

Will you have an overal map?

Each town is in its own separate world and all of the quests are randomized, so having an overall story would be a little weird (my opinion of course).

scragar
08-18-2009, 07:38 PM
If possible I think it might be cool to have all the stories linked, maybe some large natural disaster has caused a food shortage, driving monsters into towns around the world(in different countries/areas) in search of food. This'd also be a good reason for people to turn to crime, increase prices in shops etc, as everyone struggles for food. It'd also explain why all these towns in games are almost empty, everyone is out getting food/working in a farm/whatever.
This has given everyone a reason to come out of hiding, the guy who's parents were killed by zombies has been dragged into this struggle by the rising number of dead(and thus undead), the clichéd hero has started his journey as the disaster marks the first sign in a prophecy that'll destroy the whole world without his interfearance, the guy looking for money is hoping to earn some cash as a mercinary, protecting the towns from attacks, the magic user who's spent 3/4 of his life studing is forced to leave the protection of his tower from lack of food, leading him to try and take down the threat so he can resume his studies.

I personally don't think a natural disaster is a good idea, but I do like the idea of there being a natural cause, rather than one always brought on by big bad, how many times in the universe can a single monster/person threated entire worlds?

icekrystal10
08-21-2009, 06:27 PM
Each town is in its own separate world and all of the quests are randomized, so having an overall story would be a little weird (my opinion of course).

yeah that makes sense. you don't want a deep story and having the hero go on random unrelated quests. i also like the backstory, bonus, goal idea but i'm not sure how easy something like that would be to implement. i think there should be quest chains, but those can be random too.

torikamal
08-27-2009, 06:34 PM
This chain got me thinking a bit about the new town creation. I think the best way to approach this is a combination of random towns and overall goals (as was alluded to earlier).

Premise:
A wizard (not necessarily evil, but definitely not good), has trapped the player in a possibly infinite loop of realities and incarnations (the only thing that remains the same is the soul)
The wizard has somehow informed the player that there are only a few ways to attain permanence: assemble some artifacts:

Gameplay translation:
(this part is partially borrowing from a previous user's idea) the player must play through X many dungeons as a warrior. At the end of each dungeon is a leg, then an arm etc... (basically the player is assembling a statue of him/herself for each class and this will be visually carried through each new world by a statue of each class in their various states of completion. Maybe each game only begins with a wizard, a warrior and a rogue. (perhaps initially it would be randomized so that the character could not choose their class. However, when they fully assemble one particular class, they can choose that class every time, and the class options open up when they fully assemble each individual statue by class). When all three classes are finally assembled, the character can then choose which character to use and when they start the next new world, they have the option of questing for a new class. It makes sense that there might be 5 - 10 new classes. When all the classes are assembled, the character can then begin a new world questing for pieces of the artifact that will allow him to escape the world. At the end of these dungeons there will be one piece of the artifact and when they have assembled all the pieces, they put it together and find out that it is a portal back into the real world. However, it also leaves them access to come back into this infinite reality and quest as much as they want.

Once they have the portal artifact assembled, they then can quest for world modifier specific artifacts that are at the end of each dungeon, but tied to some parameter of the world--this would provide some really long gameplay because these could also be artifacts that each have several pieces and since the worlds are random, it might take a really long time to collect them all. Plus a future expansion might add a lot more. Phew. Didn't mean for this to get this long.

Delilah Rehm
08-28-2009, 03:22 PM
I've thought a lot about having an overarching character goal, and I have some ideas. BUT... it always feels like the B story in a movie. It isn't really what the game's about.

What I love about the overarching story in Depths of Peril is that once it's complete, you can access a secret from one of the short stories. I'd really like to have something like that again, though so far in game three (which really needs a name!), there are no main bosses. Each town has its own problems.

And that - random town, random problems - makes naming this game so hard!

keith.lamothe
10-10-2009, 12:57 PM
Pretty sure the Din's Curse title and backstory came after the last post in this thread, but I wanted to chime in on the overarching-goal thing.

Remember Valkyrie Profile? Most of the gameplay was in Midgard, and mostly unconnected dungeons and characters, but you were raising Einherjar to fight for Odin in a much more connected and important overarching story. Then there was the secret branch/ending, but I digress.

I don't know enough about the DoP/Kivi/Din backstory to know viable a conflict-between-the-gods is, but something like that could provide enough backdrop for some overarching meaning and continuity between towns. Perhaps a structure like this:

1) new character
2) story about Din sending you to help the first town, etc
3) first town generated and played, a "score" of sorts is assigned to how well the player did (possibly very negative)
4) player sent to a psuedo "town" in Din's realm/plane/whatever for a single mission on behalf of Din (probably just training the first time around)
5) second town generated and played, scored
6) player sent back to Din's psuedo-town, gets another mission depending on player score and level
7) third town, etc, etc

This way you're using the same town and mission structure as the normal game.

The intermission missions (no pun intended) could be pretty varied and use a similar randomized pattern as the normal stuff. For example:
- the god of fire has sent a spy into our realm, find him and capture/kill him
- the god of fire has sent an ARMY into our realm, join the fight and do your best (this could be way above the players level, counterbalanced with some huge mission-only percentage buffs from Din)
- we're sending a team to recover a powerful artifact from a dungeon in enemy territory, join the team and ensure success

A separate way of tying the metagame in would be to have the player encounter NPCs who are similar to his previous incarnation: selfish, candidates for Din's curse. Perhaps Din has charged the player to try to turn those wayward souls to a better path before reincarnation is necessary; perhaps Din has charged the player to kill the particularly bad ones so the reincarnation process can get started sooner rather than later. Perhaps what Din said doesn't matter and the player does one or other anyway. Perhaps those NPCs which die and are cursed by Din's team can become significant in the intermission world (like the Einherjar in Valkyrie Profile) and team up with the player on those missions.

Not to go on too long, but maybe enemies of Din or otherwise made by the player in the inter-missions could pop up in the ordinary town missions and try to mess things up.

Anyway, the backstory may not accommodate any of this, but it seemed worth mentioning.

Thanks for your games, they're quite interesting,
Keith

Edit: on the "things can go very, very wrong" issue, well, good :) Maybe the worst case scenario is Din's realm gets overrun and the player has to cut loose and be a sole agent, and can continue to help towns if they want to but no more inter-missions. Or if they want they can export/import the character to start from the beginning again (with their levels and such intact, of course, things should scale fine). As long as the player can always start fresh without losing character development, I'm all for massively bad consequences for really messing up.

Shadow
10-11-2009, 10:17 AM
Interesting ideas Keith and welcome to the forums.

Edit: on the "things can go very, very wrong" issue, well, good :) Maybe the worst case scenario is Din's realm gets overrun and the player has to cut loose and be a sole agent, and can continue to help towns if they want to but no more inter-missions. Or if they want they can export/import the character to start from the beginning again (with their levels and such intact, of course, things should scale fine). As long as the player can always start fresh without losing character development, I'm all for massively bad consequences for really messing up.

A player can always start a new town if the current town goes bad for them.

keith.lamothe
10-11-2009, 10:30 AM
Yes, I remember that from DoP, I was speaking in context of the overarching missions/psuedo-town where theoretically the situation could be unrecoverable.

Out of curiosity, would ever consider a meta-town like that which persists for that character? Or are there implementation difficulties or other reasons you don't want to go that way?

Shadow
10-12-2009, 09:28 AM
I try to consider everything. I know it doesn't always appear like that since I don't always reply much. I do read everything that gets posted here and consider it. Sometimes things make it in that were ideas from you guys and I never commented on it at all, so you never know. As for the Din side of things, I'm really not sure what we are going to do yet.

keith.lamothe
10-12-2009, 09:38 AM
Actually from reading the threads here it looks like you reply a lot and that it is worthwhile for users to make suggestions. I was just asking if there was anything about what I suggested that makes you wince from the perspective of how much programming effort would be involved, how badly it would fit with the backstory, or it just not giving enough "payoff" to be worth significant modifications, etc. I could then try and refine it to something more reasonable.

But if there's nothing in particular like that, I can just return to awaiting the game :)

Shadow
10-12-2009, 02:01 PM
I think this specific idea is pretty cool, reminds me some of Legacy of Kain. With our thoughts of the gods and their realms, there really wouldn't be anything for a mortal to do there though. The gods wars between each other would be fought in the mortal plane, not really in their own. If Din showed up into the normal towns occasionally that might work though.

keith.lamothe
10-12-2009, 02:21 PM
Yea, it would be odd for a level 5 mortal to have any place in the battle of the gods anyway.

How about special goals not necessarily related to saving/serving the town? Like:

- Din asks you to track down and slay a particular former-mortal who he had brought back for a rehabilitation similar to your own, but the guy disobeyed and ran off. The guy could be hidden in some cave, and would never bother the town, but he's got to go. Or he could be disguised as one of the town's people. Who knows, he could be one of the town elders at this point. Perhaps the player only has so many game minutes to find the person before they escape to some other world.

- Din asks you to try to turn a particular person away from the selfish path so they don't have to be reincarnated-rehabilitated like you; this would be more of a quest and dialog based thing, maybe a quest chain finding out about the person, helping them, etc; so I guess it could be a bit beyond what you want but I thought I'd mention it.

- Din asks you to find a powerful artifact hidden somewhere in the world, perhaps guarded by some far-more-powerful-than-the-surroundings extra-worldly folk. Maybe getting the artifact unleashes said powerful folk upon the town, making the achievement of the special goal put the primary goal (saving the town) at risk. Maybe that group starts from some other part of the map and moves towards the artifact, if they get there first they get it and disappear, only to be a major thorn in later worlds.

- Din didn't know about it but there was such an artifact and if you find it you can give it to him. Or not, and keep it for yourself. Or give it to some other god and seek their help in removing Din's curse (getting special goals from them, perhaps mutually exclusive with Din's goals). I don't know if you want to expand the scope in that direction, though.

The outcome of these special goals could have impact on the underlying "persistent" world in terms of enemies/friends made that might warp into your world to hurt/help you, availability of "higher-level" special missions, etc.

Anyway, the idea of having two (or more) parallel sets of goals could give the player more choices and tradeoffs. Do I risk the town to get that artifact? Do I play it safe and risk some powerful foe getting away and becoming more dangerous and striking at me in later worlds?

scragar
10-12-2009, 02:53 PM
How about having the wars between gods be fought by mortals.

I don't know if you've ever read The Ellimist Chronicles(I read almost all the animorphs books as a kid :p), but the two strongest entities in the universe wages wars against each other and stuff.

==-- spoiler about the book.
After Crayak sets a trap the Ellimist becomes a sort of non-corporal time manipulating all present entity. Crayak assuming the Ellimist is dead procedes to hunt down and destroy the life forms Ellimist created to seed new worlds in the gallaxy, the Ellimist uses his powers to prevent this, and eventually the two sit down to discuss the situation.
The Ellimist can't do anything to stop Crayak directly, but he can undo what Crayak has done.
Crayak on the other hand can't stop the Ellimist from saving worlds.
Eventually the two realise that if Crayak keeps destroying worlds and the Ellimist keeps undoing it sooner of later the very essence of the universe will tear itself apart and they will both be destroyed, along with everything in the universe.
==-- end spoiler

End result, they agree to play a long game, whoever wins would have free reign over the universe, and the loser has no rights to interfere.
Their games essentially consist of making small changes and pitting races against each other.

That would be a great explanation for why Din, who could destroy his enemies without a second thought chooses not to, instead he must find someone he can convince to do his war for him, and why when a god asks you for help he doesn't provide you with the tools you need.

Or, you could go for the god has limited power and is currently busy fighting a war elsewhere and can't loan you the power to destroy the enemies right now.
Or maybe go for the idea of Din rewarding those who do things on their own.

Shadow
10-13-2009, 11:39 AM
Din asks you to track down and slay a particular former-mortal who he had brought back for a rehabilitation similar to your own, but the guy disobeyed and ran off.

This would be cool, similar to a renegade.

Din asks you to try to turn a particular person away from the selfish path so they don't have to be reincarnated-rehabilitated like you; this would be more of a quest and dialog based thing, maybe a quest chain finding out about the person, helping them, etc; so I guess it could be a bit beyond what you want but I thought I'd mention it.

This would be cool, but kind of hard given the quest/dialog system as it is right now.

Din asks you to find a powerful artifact hidden somewhere in the world, perhaps guarded by some far-more-powerful-than-the-surroundings extra-worldly folk. Maybe getting the artifact unleashes said powerful folk upon the town, making the achievement of the special goal put the primary goal (saving the town) at risk. Maybe that group starts from some other part of the map and moves towards the artifact, if they get there first they get it and disappear, only to be a major thorn in later worlds.


This would also be pretty cool. I really like giving the player choices and consequences.

These ideas are basically what I'm thinking of doing with Din. A lot of time he lets you save towns as you see fit, but every once in a while he pops in (or an avatar of his) and gives you special tasks to do. These will probably be worth way more reputation gain than normal, will probably be harder than normal, and may impact the current town positively or even negatively.

keith.lamothe
10-13-2009, 11:57 AM
Cool, it sounds like you've already thought of most of what came to my mind :)

I did figure that dialog-heavy stuff wouldn't fit into the play-scope (or engine-scope), since this isn't really set up as a full-out RPG, per se, which lets it focus on the dungeon crawl.

And yes, the key is giving the player interesting and meaningful (and often exceedingly dangerous) choices, pulling in Din and other extra-worldly stuff just expands the toolkit for that.

On that note, do you think it is important to maintain the one overall goal of gaining reputation to convince Din that you've been rehabilitated (I may have misunderstood that a bit)? That could be best for not distracting from the dungeon crawl, but perhaps it could be interesting if there was an alternate (and basically mutually exclusive) path that players could take to get free of Din's control or whatever. Nothing against Din, and I actually don't like games doing the whole "you can be good or evil" thing (since evil is, well, bad), but it seemed worth thinking about.

Shadow
10-14-2009, 10:48 AM
Well I've thought a little about this stuff, but it's not implemented yet so it's still in flux. So ideas are still good (actually ideas are always good).

On that note, do you think it is important to maintain the one overall goal of gaining reputation to convince Din that you've been rehabilitated (I may have misunderstood that a bit)? That could be best for not distracting from the dungeon crawl, but perhaps it could be interesting if there was an alternate (and basically mutually exclusive) path that players could take to get free of Din's control or whatever. Nothing against Din, and I actually don't like games doing the whole "you can be good or evil" thing (since evil is, well, bad), but it seemed worth thinking about.

Right now I'm trying to not overly complicate the reputation stuff. It's a new system and I'm still exploring what just the simple implementation gives us. Having alternate paths would be cool, but might be a bit much at the moment.

keith.lamothe
10-14-2009, 10:51 AM
Yea, probably best to go with a straightforward approach to the reputation thing this time around, and see how it goes before considering an expanded system for a later game or expansion or such.

keith.lamothe
11-08-2009, 07:29 PM
Are there going to be other/competing parties in Din's?

Shadow
11-09-2009, 09:21 AM
In general, no there won't be. There might be NPCs here and there like wandering vendors but they won't be competing with you really.

Kaizoku
11-16-2009, 08:20 AM
As for quests, I hope that there will be many more available than in DoP, as I found myself running around doing nothing important in hopes that a new quest would generate.

Although it's probably too late for the input to be of any use, I would be interested in there being different aspects of a player's reputation that doing particular quests provide. That, and a variety of unique sources for those quests.

For example, quests performed for royal/political figures are given by leaders or their vassals and not only provide favor to that organization but give the player "points" to their overall political standing throughout the world as an executor of law or candidate for leadership.

Quests performed for townspeople provides the character with a more traditional heroic reputation that makes him "the people's champion." This could improve relations with townspeople dramatically (if there is such a system) and provide many more options in dealing with them. These could be given by a bulletin board in town.

Quests performed for merchants provide mercantile points, which are rewarded with treasures, discounts, and perhaps business opportunities. Mercantile quests can be found in shops, as you would expect.

Hunting rare monsters perhaps needn't even be a quest -- if you've killed something that seems famous you can report back to someone who will reward you with points for monster hunting and in return grant you enhancements to your abilities or something.

That kind of system seems attractive to me, and is in many ways similar to DoP with more developmental focus on consequences relative to the type of task the player performs. And there should be a wealth of all of those kinds of quests, so we can do the ones we like while ignoring the ones we don't (at the cost of whatever bonus they might provide).

I hated collecting stuff in DoP. But I liked that those quests were there, in case I was headed to the designated area anyway.

O'Jorvic
11-21-2009, 03:31 PM
i actually loved collecting stuff in DoP but what i found a bit disapp. was when it said: the town needs 5 so and sos but i could not gather more than that.

what i mean to say is: why not add an econom. aspect: you could be able to buy up all the healing potions in town and sell your own at a higher price. that should make NPCs and covenants angry. sell them under price and make a lot of friends (but vendors start hating you and hide stuff) you sell your stock to them. they start to like you and offer special items.

the same with wandering vendors: i mean, these guys sometimes stand in the middle of a huge pile of dropped stuff but they don't collect them?
they should show up in town once in a while and make a sale, so other vendors have to react.

O'Jorvic
11-22-2009, 06:39 AM
so, how about personalized quests like:

i find this great item but it is broken.
now i need certain material, so the weaponsmith can repair it. but to gather that stuff i need to find xyz in a remote area that is too high - yet!
this makes me gain power, so i can finally enter this region, get my stuff, go back and get my great item. this way you can randomly link quests but they all serve a higher goal.

or something along these lines:
a quest sends me out to kill 15 creatures of one kind. but now they hate me and start to hunt me, attack me, whenever they see me. (longer pull range, perhaps?)

O'Jorvic
11-23-2009, 04:30 AM
how about this:

once you reach lvl 30 a father approaches you with his son and wants you to train him so that he gets to lvl 10 asap - without getting killed.

very much like an escort-quest in DoP, only that you don't have to bring them to a certain region but to a certain level.

if the youngster gets killed, however, there is a 20% chance, that the father goes after you to kill you, too - and he is lvl 40.

double dynamics: you have to protect the rookie but also lvl up yourself, so you can face the vendetta.

O'Jorvic
11-23-2009, 04:45 AM
here is another idea:

after a rescue-quest has gone horribly wrong, this might happen:

the warmaster or another high ranking NPC orders "penitence", which means that I have to adventure in a certain area with none of my special gear. all i get is grey stuff - like an outcast.

this sends me back to a formerly easier region that is now dangerous again.
penitence might last for a period of time or quest(s)
after that I get my normal gear back. I am no longer an outcast and the warmaster will continue to give more normal quests.

you could also buy your way out of a penitence (in gold), as did the ancient barbarian tribes.

(btw. this could explain, why there are renegades in DoP, they refused penitence.)

Shadow
11-23-2009, 11:28 AM
Some personal quests would be cool.

O'Jorvic
11-23-2009, 09:28 PM
how about this:

every hero has a totem or a spirit guide or a god...

and a whole line of quests could be arranged around them: win the favor of your gods, collect and donate money, find certain relics, give them to a temple or person and help grow.

but if the gods keep asking for too much, you quit their religion and join another one. then you are in trouble.