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Shadow
09-07-2009, 05:20 PM
I'm working on classes and skills right now and probably will be for the next couple days. Right now I'm trying to decide which skills that we have in Depths of Peril and Kivi's Underworld that I should carry over to the new game. What do you think? What are your favorite skills in our previous games?

Qwerytykeys
09-24-2009, 02:45 AM
Any polymorphing abilities? Those are always fun, but with the hybrid system I would understand you would not want them to step on the toes of other classes.

Also do passive skills count as part of the 10 skills/line?

Speaking about passive skills I always find them to be boring as paste, and always get them after I get all the active skills. One thing I liked about Titan Quest is that they had passive skills that were fun and were more than just add x% to damage.

You could have multiple things they do for example. Like having a Mage skill "mastery of elements" deal x% more damage for elemental spells, lights a enemy on fire for for damage over time if it is fire element, has a chance to stun enemies if it is lighting, and slows enemies down if it is an ice spell.

Also how about adding a unique skill/spell for each hybrid combination? This would give the player more reason to try out each combination as well as help with balancing.

For instance, Fighter/Priest could get some thing called "smite", a passive in which a small % of weapon damage is converted to group healing. Mage/Rogue could get a ability where they could disarm traps from long range "using magic". Fighter/Mages could get a ability that would allow them to cast the next spell instantly every X seconds. Mage/Priests could get a passive in which the more they inflict with one classes's spells the better they are with the other (for instance, if I spend the boss fight healing my Fighter friend, than the boss summons a monster I could launch a fireball at it and do great damage, because I was healing previously).

Edit: Also what about having each world you complete you get special skillpoints to buy special unique skills from a pool?

Shadow
09-24-2009, 10:48 AM
Any polymorphing abilities? Those are always fun, but with the hybrid system I would understand you would not want them to step on the toes of other classes.

Well right this second we don't have any, but that might change.

Also do passive skills count as part of the 10 skills/line? Speaking about passive skills I always find them to be boring as paste, and always get them after I get all the active skills.

They do count as part of the 10. Some classes/specialties have very few passive skills though. I do plan on spicing up the passive skills where possible.

Also how about adding a unique skill/spell for each hybrid combination? This would give the player more reason to try out each combination as well as help with balancing.

For instance, Fighter/Priest could get some thing called "smite", a passive in which a small % of weapon damage is converted to group healing. Mage/Rogue could get a ability where they could disarm traps from long range "using magic". Fighter/Mages could get a ability that would allow them to cast the next spell instantly every X seconds. Mage/Priests could get a passive in which the more they inflict with one classes's spells the better they are with the other (for instance, if I spend the boss fight healing my Fighter friend, than the boss summons a monster I could launch a fireball at it and do great damage, because I was healing previously).

Edit: Also what about having each world you complete you get special skillpoints to buy special unique skills from a pool?

These are interesting ideas. I'll have to think about it. If it is specialty combinations, that would mean 141 new skills though (class combinations would only be 15 new skills).

Delilah Rehm
09-24-2009, 02:15 PM
Polymorphing would be cool, just to see it. It reminds me of one of the classes that raises little minions (because it's cool). Are we going to have a minion raising skill, Shadow? (Is it sad or what that I don't know?! I need to start play testing the game soon...)

Shadow
09-24-2009, 02:29 PM
I am currently planning a summoning type class.

Qwerytykeys
09-24-2009, 03:02 PM
I am currently planning a summoning type class.

Ohh nice, polymorphing might go well with that class.

Cadfan
09-25-2009, 12:37 AM
The stealth skills. Though make sure that if you use a stealth skill like the ninja's, you add a bit more documentation. I always want to invest in that one because it sounds really cool, but since you can't know exactly how far the monster's detection radius began, and you can't precisely see what's happened as you added points to the skill, its hard to know if you've accomplished anything.

But both the scout and the ninja's stealth skills were neat ideas, though in a different sort of game the scout might need rebalanced so it doesn't just stroll through the level without fighting anything at all.

Try to create a ranged attack that functions with instead of against your melee attacks. In most games this feels very either/or, like you should focus on only ranged or only melee, even when your character can technically do both. There are two weays to make these work together instead of apart, at least as far as I can think up:

1. Make each attack work better on some monsters than others, and make it obvious to the player which is which.

2. Make the ranged attacks primarily debuff targets while melee does damage. Then players will want to combine them.

redman5427
09-25-2009, 02:34 PM
And don't forget my periennial favorite class: The monk! Hand to hand damage
Deadly Kicks- Flying martial arts type ranged weapons

Shadow
09-25-2009, 05:45 PM
Any polymorphing abilities? Those are always fun, but with the hybrid system I would understand you would not want them to step on the toes of other classes.

There are now 2 shapechanging/polymorphing skills in the game.

Qwerytykeys
09-25-2009, 05:50 PM
There are now 2 shapechanging/polymorphing skills in the game.

Great! Care to give a hint what they are? :D

Shadow
09-25-2009, 06:58 PM
I just tweeted about one of them: Stalker.

Qwerytykeys
09-25-2009, 07:51 PM
I just tweeted about one of them: Stalker.
Thanks!

One spell I would like back is the fireball spell. Fireball is bread and butter of every RPG for spellcasters :)

Shadow
09-26-2009, 11:36 AM
One spell I would like back is the fireball spell. Fireball is bread and butter of every RPG for spellcasters :)

There is a fireball spell.

Qwerytykeys
09-26-2009, 02:40 PM
There is a fireball spell.
Great! :)

What about a spell that turns the enemy into a chicken or a cow or something (it could even drop meat!). It would be a good way to get rid of key targets, like spellcaster or healer monsters.

Shadow
09-26-2009, 04:28 PM
We don't have any polymorph other type of spells, but we do have plenty of stun/freeze types that would tactically do the same thing.

Mivo
10-04-2009, 09:03 PM
A shapeshifting class would be fantastic. I'd like to be a kitty. :) Examples here would be the druids in WoW, D2, NWN. It does require extra art, though.

Oh, and please add an archer class, or something hybrid'ish like D2's amazon.

Shadow
10-05-2009, 10:54 AM
Right now it does look like we will have a ranged class.

Mivo
10-05-2009, 02:52 PM
Good news. :) If given the choice, my first character in a new RPG is almost always a ranger type of class. Ideally one with an animal pet and some stealth, but this is rarely offered. Back in Ultima Online, where you could mix and match skills, one of my favourite characters was one that had mastered archery, taming and stealth. She could also craft her own bows.

I did prefer this completely free skill system where your character was always what he or she did, not what you put points into. Archery increased by shooting arrows, stealth increased by sneaking around, taming increased by taming animals, etc. There were downsides early on, like "accidental" skill increases which caused other skills to athrophy, but they fixed it later with skill locks and a removal of passive learning (i.e. if you stood close to someone who was making potions, you learned a little alchemy at low levels just by "watching").

I imagine that a system like this is much harder to balance than the more traditional class system, though, though semi classes can probably be enforced indirectly, i.e. by making a magery skill more potent by having another skill that increases magic damage, or a meditation skill that increases mana regeneration, so you'd still have de-facto classes, but also allow typical non-magic users to get some low level, non-damage utility spells.

DeathKnight1728
10-17-2009, 06:42 PM
I got a few other ideas for skills. Here goes:

-Viper Venom. This skill is almost a necessity. It is one of my favorite skills in the game for a rogue. At high lvls, it is almost unfair so long as the enemy doesn't have too much poison resistance. Fits the bill really well too, if there is an assassin type character which there probably will be. Even if there isn't; this is still one of the best skills you get. Especially for the characters that want to focus on elemental damage instead of physical damage.

-Concentration Skills for the rogue type classes (Concentration: Poison, Speed, Blur) These skills were a neat way to make the rogue like classes more unique, though they should be tweaked a little bit. For one, I think that the concentration skills should have a longer lasting time both in DOP and the new game: Din's Curse. 30 seconds just isn't enough time. It would be alright if the recharging time wasn't 4 minutes. Because the recharge time is 4 minutes, it makes those skills almost useless.

-There should be a deception-like skill that is like gouge but instead when it hits it makes the enemy suffer deep wounds. It would have a certain amount of time that it lasts that goes up with levels.

-There should also be a passive skill for the rogue that gives the rogue-like classes a chance to do deep wounds.

-Lethal Blow. Lethal Blow should be in the game, though it shouldn't cost as much mana/momentum. 20 Momentum is quite a hike for a skill that you get right at the start.

That's it for now. Sorry if I seem to favor the rogue classes. I'm just a big fan of stealth-llke characters, especially since I write about them a lot as well :)

Cadfan
10-17-2009, 07:36 PM
Out of curiousity, Deathknight, how many ranks do you think Viper Venom needs to be worthwhile? I've been considering getting it, and I haven't because I wasn't quite sure what I was getting myself into with it.

DeathKnight1728
10-17-2009, 09:18 PM
That's easy. In the beginning of the game when you want to be able to take out covenants and monsters very easy; you would want 2 ranks to be worthwhile. Once you get up to around lvl 6-10 your going to want to get it to rank 3. Basically for every 3-4 levels; put 1 point into it. Now, down the line when you notice your enemy (priests), is getting resistance to poison (Which i will add is not until lvl 20 or so); More points are needed. Plus there is an outstanding skill which i believe will make your poison damage better: Concentration-Poison. I believe that that will work with viper venom. It should. I havent tried it yet though. Shadow should be able to confirm this.

Just don't try and use it on priests when they are high lvl and have the temporary buff: poison resist. They are tough. But......that is when you would use something like gouge from deception. A high level gouge will make them easy to hit, and easier to critical on: For everyone in your covenant. With those two finishing skills you shouldn't have too much trouble with the game. But then again.....I haven't beaten the whole game yet. Sorry if this is too much information; Hope this helps.

DeathKnight1728
10-25-2009, 01:17 AM
I thought of a few other ideas as well.

-Stunning Blows like from Kivi's Underworld (the passive skill that kivi has in K.U.). It would work as it did in K.U. where everytime it hit it not only did max damage but it also would stun the opponent. A passive skill like this would be awesome for a warrior-type class or for a fighter/thief class or any part warrior type class. Just imagine being able to skulk around like the rogue, and then all at once attack from the shadows with the chance to both do max damage and coupled with the bonus to damage and critical chance almost quadruple your damage!

-Powerstrike is a must for this game. Though I will agree that it must be taken as a warrior type class or subclass. It is probably already a skill however as it was in both games.

-Smoke screen is another skill that I would be surprised if it wasn't in it already. It is easily one of the best skills that a thief would have with the freezes target aspect of it.

-Caltrops is another skill that would be cool if it was in, as it was a life-saver if you needed to escape.

Well, that's it for now. Maybe i will come up with more ideas later.

Shadow
10-26-2009, 10:22 AM
All 4 of those skills are in Din's Curse and as it happens all different specialties.

DeathKnight1728
10-26-2009, 05:57 PM
Another couple of skills that I think would be cool are:

-Gouge. The deception skill for rogue's that lowers the enemy's defense and attack and makes them more susceptible to critical against. That skill is very useful and would be a good skill to have in the game to knock an enemy out of a fight.

-Combat Reflexes. Adds 4 to dex with every point into it. Helps make rogue almost impossible to hit.

-Dagger Mastery. Adds attack, critical chance, and min/max damage with each point. This works well with rogues with fast attack speeds.

-I also was just throwing this last one out here. I think that rogues should also have a mastery of short swords: rapier/sabre/scimitar, etc. I know that most use daggers but I for one think that they should get their own mastery of one handed swords just for reach purposes. You can get many more attacks out when you don't have to be right up close to your enemy. Reach is important.

Sorry if I seem annoying, just want to help out

Shadow
10-27-2009, 11:23 AM
Don't worry useful posts are never annoying. Din's has all of these skills also except a short sword skill for rogues. I'll have to think about that one.