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View Full Version : Stargate Universe, Your Plot Holes Make Me Cry


Delilah Rehm
10-05-2009, 12:44 PM
I have several good friends who love Stargate- the movie, SG1, Stargate Atlantis- the whole shebang. So awhile back I gave it a whirl and watched 5 seasons of SG1. Well.. It was okay except the way the character Samantha Carter was written set my teeth on edge. She was supposed to be super smart, but they wrote her like she was stupid. The worst episode for this was early on in season 1. A young man kidnapped her and sold her into slavery to the enemy's chief for the purpose of buying his "true love." At the end of the episode (after she escapes) she says she forgives him because it was for love. I'm sorry, but I don't care what the reason was for selling me into slavery, where I'll be beaten and raped. Umm, I will not forgive you, ever.

Now SGU, Stargate Universe is starting, a new tv series in the Stargate world. I thought, surely after two other shows they'll get it right. My good friends are excited about it, why not give it a chance? After watching the first episode I can definitively say, Stargate is not for me.

*** Spoilers Below ***





It was the plot holes I couldn't get over, two very large pieces of plot that didn't make a bit of sense.

1. "Captain, there's no way to shut the shuttle's door from the outside! Someone has to shut it from the inside and then die (because of a partially shielded hull breach)!" Ummm... Why would anyone make a vehicle that you couldn't open it's doors from the outside? Can you imagine if cars worked this way? Even if this absurdity was true, I'm supposed to believe there's no way to delay the door shutting for 15 or so seconds while you exit the vehicle? And even if this were true, I'm supposed to believe the two brilliant scientist guys can't think of and build a delayed mechanism to push the button? Hmmm... I don't think so.

2. You think that was bad? Wait for this- The CO2 scrubbers are kaput, worn out and full of gunk. But oh yeah, head scientist guy has found out from the computer that this super old ship was launched unmanned. That's right folks, no one has ever been aboard this ship since it launched (you see where I'm going with this?) and yet... And yet, the CO2 scrubbers are worn out FROM USE and full of gunk! Umm... No way? How, dare I ask, how is there a CO2 problem on this ship? Survey says! I don't buy it.

Sorry SGU, you're not for me.

Shadow
10-05-2009, 02:42 PM
Someone on Slashdot described it like this: "So it's a bit like Voyager but somebody stole their steering wheel."

scragar
10-05-2009, 06:31 PM
1: They didn't know what they had in terms of resources to build anything of, they were still sorting out the supplies, other than the fact that it looked like it was just pushing a single button to close the doors I'm assuming it would have been too hard to devise and construct an object to shut the doors.
Or maybe it just needed the ancient gene to operate the shut switch.

2: The air scrubbers turned to gunk, because of the time, lot's of chemicals slowly decay over several years, I'm assuming the air scrubbing stuff was expected to be cleaned every so often, no chemical will remain pure forever.
Even without anyone breathing on the ship though there would still be oxidisation, some types of radiation can even cause systems to stop completely.


The parts that bug me are that the ship has been dropping stargates off for thousands of years, can it do that from hyperspace?
Just how many stargates does the thing have?
Just how much power would it consume, hyperspace for thousands of years, and the power to run thousands of stargates(because each gate needs power to gate out and support an open gate should the dialing gate be interupted), and life support systems for when someone arrives and power lighting, force fields....

Why did it have a ship attached when it was an unmanned flight?

They learnt pretty early on it's flight path, and towards the end of the episode how to use the stargate, why couldn't they get the power crystals from the stargates they can find and immediately use the combined power to gate home?

The ancients forgot a lot of simple safety mechanisms, but who, honestly, would built a ship to fly away from earth without a way to return home?

Stargates just don't work the way it's expected when they first lock the 9th chevron, it's maps of space, the last point is always origin, the rest are co-ords and a distance modifier(or two). Stargates work regardless of where they are, provided you adjust the point of origin(which is why ships in orbit can gate out or in), the idea that for this one special address the rules of the stargate are ignored and the last chevron should be earth, because, well, because that's where you'd expect to gate from, is stupid and against the very rules defined for the stargates.

Why did they even bring the citizen along? They had his calculations, they shouldn't have needed him at all, he solved a puzzle and nothing happened as far as he knows, let him go on thinking that, no need to force him to sign a non-disclosure agreement and go on a 3 light year trip to a planet so you can show him what he worked out.

Coreyh2
10-05-2009, 09:51 PM
The kind of sci-fi thats on TV is more like fantasy then logic based sci-fi. Just imagine the ship is cursed and the scrubbers are out of fairy dust.

I'm mostly watching it because Robert Carlyle (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001015/) is in it. I like how awesome character actors get TV series now. His character was interesting in it even if nothing else was that great.

Delilah Rehm
10-06-2009, 11:44 AM
1. I know they only had an hour, but a genius can come up with a dozen solutions in that time. Are there no space suits? Air packs? Does someone have to die for pushing a button? :confused: I still can't swallow this one.

2. Okay, the degrading chemical thing makes sense but tying it to CO2 scrubbers confuses the issue for me. I wish they would have chosen some other system. (Also, if it's that bad, I'm likely to think the ship isn't viable at all and they should all die soon).

The kind of sci-fi thats on TV is more like fantasy then logic based sci-fi. Just imagine the ship is cursed and the scrubbers are out of fairy dust.

Love it! I laughed when I read this. :D So funny. I have noticed Stargate shows are very soft when it comes to logic but usually they cover it up with "alien technology."

Sadly, I'm not a hard science kind of girl, but I have some standards. I love many sci-fi shows but apparently, I'm not the target audience for Stargate. They seem to do really well and I'm glad. I want more sci-fi shows!

(name here)
10-07-2009, 08:35 PM
1. Well, a space suit isn't really an option for the guy hitting the button, even if there is one on board. He'd just get to die a slow death of oxygen starvation instead of a quick death of oxygen starvation. Also, the longer they spent pushing the button, the worse of they'd be for the entire series. As for coming up with some way to avoid having to send someone in, they seem to have decided to stop doing that in this series.

2. The ship did get shot up, apparently. Maybe there were fires?


The parts that bug me are that the ship has been dropping stargates off for thousands of years, can it do that from hyperspace?

I'm guessing it in fact cannot, and so drops out of hyperspace to drop them.

Just how many stargates does the thing have?

A bunch. Although someone suggested it tunes stargates that other ships had dropped off, which would explain some stuff.

Just how much power would it consume, hyperspace for thousands of years, and the power to run thousands of stargates(because each gate needs power to gate out and support an open gate should the dialing gate be interupted), and life support systems for when someone arrives and power lighting, force fields....

Lots, although it doesn't need to power the gates, the DHDs do that. Also, it's either reaching the end of its operational lifetime or got seriously mauled. The shields don't have enough power and are badly malfunctioning. They should be contracting until they are airtight, but that's clearly not happening.

Why did it have a ship attached when it was an unmanned flight?


Because of the onboard stargate. If someone gates on, they can't bring a shuttle with them.

They learnt pretty early on it's flight path, and towards the end of the episode how to use the stargate, why couldn't they get the power crystals from the stargates they can find and immediately use the combined power to gate home?
The same reason you can't fly to the moon with four nine-volt batteries. It'd take at least a thousand times as much energy as the atlantis gate. Also, the gates they need to use to return to the ship kinda need power crystals to operate.

The ancients forgot a lot of simple safety mechanisms, but who, honestly, would built a ship to fly away from earth without a way to return home?

People who expect to be able to bring the power needed to return home with them when they come onboard. Also, it's quite likely that the ship is actually programmed to turn around if given the proper commands, which the characters don't have the security codes to enter.

Of course, at this point even if they can get the required codes, it's still going to take a long while.

Stargates just don't work the way it's expected when they first lock the 9th chevron, it's maps of space, the last point is always origin, the rest are co-ords and a distance modifier(or two). Stargates work regardless of where they are, provided you adjust the point of origin(which is why ships in orbit can gate out or in), the idea that for this one special address the rules of the stargate are ignored and the last chevron should be earth, because, well, because that's where you'd expect to gate from, is stupid and against the very rules defined for the stargates.

Gating to a moving ship with a fixed address is also against the very rules defined for the stargates.

Delilah Rehm
10-07-2009, 08:48 PM
1. Stand at the door and throw stuff at the button for goodness sake!

2. Oooo Fire damage. I didn't think of that one! Of course then everything should be covered in ash and soot.

(name here)
10-07-2009, 09:12 PM
1. Kinda hard to do, really. Small target, and it needs to press, not just bounce off. It was probably worth a shot, though.
2. Depends on where the fires happened. There might also be some autocleaning system, though that'd possibly be long dead by now. Hard to say, most of the ship is on the other side of airlocks now. I imagine a lot of questions will be answered once they get the shields to contract, or restore power. Not the least of which is where the power is coming from. If it's ZPMs, i'd expect the drive to cut out not long after the shields went staticy. Unless that's a problem with the shields and not the power supply.

scragar
10-07-2009, 10:38 PM
Gating to a moving ship with a fixed address is also against the very rules defined for the stargates.

The ships in hyperspace, I think that violates about 10 laws of the stargates on it's own :p

(name here)
10-07-2009, 11:15 PM
Hard to say, because a ship in hyperspace automatically is moving too fast to be reached anyway.

Delilah Rehm
10-07-2009, 11:34 PM
I love you guys. :D

melclin
10-18-2009, 06:41 AM
The thing that bothered me the most from a hard science point of view, other than the ubiquitous problems with most sci-fi regarding FTL travel, etc (which of course we ignore because its way more awesome to fly around in spaceships than it is to watch an hour long physics lecture everyweek), was the CO2 scrubbers.

Now maybe I missed something, and I'm probably being too finicky about it anyway (but then if you're going to pull apart sci-fi on an internet forum...), but what was the deal with the CO2 scrubber?

The ancients didn't come up with a way of replenishing the atmosphere better than filtering through uber akaline stuff? We already do ourselves, why not them? Okay okay, lets pretend that, they did, it still broke and our new crew of the Battlestar, I mean....the destiny, needed a primative work around and managed to work it into the air conditioning system. Calcium carbonate? They found buckets of calcium carbonate right? I didn't miss something? Hows that going to help? You need to turn that into quick lime for it to absorb CO2. It then becomes calcium carbonate once it absorbs CO2. They'd need to chuck all that calcium carbonate in a big arse fire for a while as any bronze age civilization will tell you. Not that its impossible for them to have made it happen, but its ganna require an arse load of doing, not to mention noxious products such as more CO2. I'm not chemist, but it seems like the writters would have had to research it a little bit to know what chemicals they were talking about, would it have been that hard to just say oh we happened to find a collection of quicklime made by *strange environmental process here*. It doesn't change the story much, other than to make it more accurate...is it that hard? Although I have to say, I liked the fact they found a solution in a material that could be plausibly easily found on a planet like ours and didn't resort to the old "If we recouple the phase capacitors and transduce the flux matrix, I should be able to draw Oxygen from out my arse; and all it will take is tapping on a few cheap looking crystals with a flashing light while wearing a steely expression".

Even if they did all of the chemistry involved (after all they have a super scientist who's an expert in all sciences, buts he's a bit creepy; is he mad or bad? Who knows. In any case I'm sure Baltar... I mean, Dr. Rush could figure it out), in the tiny amount of time they had before they all died, it doesn't solve their problem for ever and everest. It just buys them some time. It doesn't make O2 it just gets rid of CO2, you're still ganna run out of O2 soon enough (not to mention the effect of the partial pressure gradients on the equilibrium of CO2 and calcium carbonate; but that's too nerdy to worry about). Anyway, we use some form of lime something-or-other in our ventilators (I'm a paramedic) which scrub CO2, and if I scale up the amounts to roughly what they appeared to have in the show, then they still only bought maybe a days worth of time, who knows, maybe a week. But I'm ganna tentatively guess that all their atmosphere problems are solved until a season finally or something equally in need of device that creates suspense.

Just as a tangent....Why couldn't they pump some of that nice atmosphere from the desert world through the stargate, even as a stop gap while they waited?

I do like this new Battlestar-rified stargate, with its cinema varite shots and sexy new cast of sex havers that have sex, but I hope they don't keep relying on silly plot holes. I'll still watch it (I don't watch sci-fi for its scientific accuracy), it just makes things unnecessarily frustrating.

Delilah Rehm
10-19-2009, 10:07 AM
Wow. You are not the first one I've heard compare Dr. Rush to Baltar. :-)

I didn't watch the latest because, well, because (for me) the plot issues are too frustrating to enjoy the show. I'm not meticulous or religious about plot issues, but apparently SG can't pass my personal litmus.

That being said, I wish SG success. It seems to be a popular show, and any popular sf (whether I like it or not) will generate more sf being produced. Some of it is bound to be good. :D

Delilah Rehm
10-19-2009, 10:11 AM
BTW, pumping atmo from *any* planet and changing out the ship's air was one of my first thoughts.

At this point in the show, they'll have to throw up a lot of junk as to why they can't even *think* about trying for Earth. Getting back to Earth is the end of the show. How are they going to have surprises for the audience? I would not want to be one of their writers! They have a hard task before them.

JohnnyInc
10-19-2009, 06:49 PM
Okay here are my objections:

1 - why couldn't they use one of the remote control camera balls to close the door? Drop one down on top of the close door button. Voila! problem solved.

2 - The communication gems seem to be a big logic back hole for me. Why can't they swap bodies with daniel jackson or some other smart scientist to come solve problems on the ship? It seems like a waste of time going to see widows and soon to be ex-wives. Maybe they can bring some experts on Ancient technology to the ship with the stones instead of posting progess reports.

3 - The camera ball confessions are annoying. Also, they can communicate back to earth! Let everyone take a turn with the stones and have them leave messages with stargate command.

4 - I get the contest winner is a way for them to pay tribute to the fanboys out there... "What if I got to be in stargate?" But the dude is annoying. Again, if the can use those stones to transfer minds back to earth, swap the kid out for daniel jackson.

5 - Also, does it seem like the ship would be solar powered or something? seems like that is where they are heading for the next episode.

(name here)
10-19-2009, 09:12 PM
1. There are a number of possible reasons. One that just occured to me is that it's possibly a safety feature. You need to actually push it with a finger to get the door to close when the ship airlock is open, or maybe even all the time. However, this is somthing that really should have been explained.
2. yeah, true. this is going to be an elephant in the room for pretty much the entire show. Then again, atlantis just crash-landed on the moon, so everyone may be a tad busy discovering advanced multidiminsional power generation or somthing. Still, when they find somthing major they should call in an expert
3. That could take up a lot of time. Still no really good reason, though.
4. Bah.
5. That would be incredibly stupid. Probably it's powered by super fusion or somesuch. Might be gathering hydrogen to run the reactors. Alternately, they might find somthing useful on the planet, like a ZPM that will get power supplies lifted enough to jump but not enough to get the shield working properly. Given the stupidly high power used by the city ship stardrive and the power priority given to the jumpdrive, that doesn't seem too implausible.

(name here)
10-19-2009, 09:19 PM
BTW, pumping atmo from *any* planet and changing out the ship's air was one of my first thoughts.

Stargates do not work that way. You can open a wormhole into space without problems.

At this point in the show, they'll have to throw up a lot of junk as to why they can't even *think* about trying for Earth. Getting back to Earth is the end of the show. How are they going to have surprises for the audience? I would not want to be one of their writers! They have a hard task before them.

They're over 58 years from earth at best speed, and they don't control the drive. That seems like a pretty good reason.

JohnnyInc
10-26-2009, 12:10 AM
5 - Also, does it seem like the ship would be solar powered or something? seems like that is where they are heading for the next episode.

Well, seems like that was what they came up with....

Pessimism is the closest thing to precognition we have.

scragar
10-26-2009, 04:56 AM
Yeah, the whole flying into a sun thing annoyed me, there is no resistance in space, to slow down consumes energy, so why did the ship drop out of faster than light travel and coast at such a slow speed towards the star? Would it not have been more energy efficient to move at a higher speed, then slow down when needed, rather than slowing down way in advance and shutting off almost everything other than shields?

Stargates do not work that way. You can open a wormhole into space without problems.
Not that it makes any difference, matter only enters the stargate one way, anything entered the other way is destroyed, so if air could pass through the gate then you'd not realise the difference between the gate open to a planet and a gate open to space.
And it's not the wormhole that's the issue, it's the safety protocols put in place by the ancients, the difference in pressure between two gates would cause a serious issue, as would rapid decompression if the gate acted like a vacuum.
There are also gates underwater, which would pose a very similar issue, the gate exerts a small reactive force equal to the force exerted over the surface of the gate to a limit, this let's the gates work perfectly underwater, or on a planet gating to a vacuum, but it does not protect against explosions and irradiating particles.

Possible Troll
10-26-2009, 08:55 PM
You *** need to invest in some good weed. I'll let you in on my Stargate ritual.
1. Hit a few bongs, wait while torrent downloads. (30mins max)
2. Roll joint, launch Nero.
3. Watch .avi, smoke moar.
4. Lol @ Plotholes.

You **** probably don't appreciate how difficult it is to build a spaceship THAT RUNS ON FUCKING STARS because your **** heads can't comprehend awesome on that level. We're yet to see weapons, but you can bet that's gonna knock you on your ass when it charges it's death star laser and launches those tightly compact neutrino star drones.
Also lol @ Mathboy getting friendzoned. He ain't getting ***** this season.
I admit the shuttle should have been left. No need to plothole those useless fools back on the Lolship.
tl;dr: Quit whining, it's lolscience, not srscience.

Delilah Rehm
11-01-2009, 12:36 PM
Umm... Look what I found - a StarGate SG1 command table (http://www.modthesims.info/download.php?t=376140) for The Sims 2! *weirdness* ;) I wonder if I'll find Dr. Horrible stuff for The Sims 2.

flowerpower
12-14-2009, 01:22 AM
So, when is Earth going to be found by the alien attackers that found the base (Icarus Base?). It seems those alien attackers would be on their way by now. oh well whatever

(name here)
12-20-2009, 12:17 PM
Erm, what?

The alien attackers who found the base had three Ha'taks. Do you remember what happened to the last people who attacked earth with fourty Ha'taks?

They all died.