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Shadow
12-18-2009, 10:08 AM
So a bunch of you have probably played Torchlight by now. I have played it some and as usually happens when I play other games I got a few ideas on how to make our games better.

So what do you guys think that Torchlight did well that we should do in Din's Curse?

DeathKnight1728
12-18-2009, 12:33 PM
I think that the best thing you guys could carry over to Din's from Torchlight would be the fact that you could gamble for uniques but to a lesser extent. I remember getting a unique weapon from gambling in torchlight almost every time. This should be toned down a bit to make it more realistic.

Other than that, I am not going to lie that i thought the game was good. But at the same time, it got too repetetive too quick. The game was too easy as well.

Besides all that, I am eagerly hoping to get a look at the rogue-like classses for din's :D

Shadow
12-18-2009, 01:09 PM
I haven't gambled for anything yet in Torchlight. I will have to see how it works. We do have a gambler in Din's Curse which works similar to the one in Depths of Peril.

getter77
12-18-2009, 08:03 PM
Times like this it'd have been handy if I'd gotten around to my copy of Torchlight proper yet!

General bits though:

-A functional infinite dungeon styled thingie. Apparently, unless it has been seized upon recently, the enemy scaling/loot mechanics got a bit muddled/wobbly after not even that far towards infinity.

-Secret level shenanigans, as Torchlight somewhat kept a nod to from Diablo 2 times.

-Oddball, yet sensible stuff....like that sword that yells about Wizards and such as you wield it.

DeathKnight1728
12-18-2009, 09:49 PM
The only other REALLY important thing that I didn't like from DOP was that you stopped getting experience from lvl 8 onward. It didn't go as fast as the lower levels. What i mean is that once i reached lvl 17, I stopped getting quests that would even give me a 1/4 of a level. I just thought I would point that out. That was kind of annoying from DOP, other than that, everything else looks great :)

darksilver
12-24-2009, 06:27 AM
Well, I think we might need an enchanter, 'cause in DoP you end up with a pocket full of cash that you cannot spend on... in Torchlight (due to Enchanter) money was always a problem :)

GeorgiaBoy
12-24-2009, 09:37 AM
Phase Beasts and Treasure Maps which spawn an optional, more difficult (and treasure filled!) map.

Maledictus
02-16-2010, 05:04 AM
I think TL was a huge letdown. It felt like a flashy and shoddy incarnation of one of my favorite gametypes, the ARPG. There is an overdose of stats and no good way to interpret them, the action is so flashy that it becomes difficult to target the bad guys, the characters are samy because of the skilltree design, there's no real character continuation (like in DoP where you can start a new game with your developed character), it's 'cute' design obviously caters for the average gamer (of which they seem the think there are the most out there), the voice acting is painful (if it's like TL's i'd rather have no voice acting), the balance is way off, no weapon restrictions make the game too simple, and finally, the bug list is huge. Also, i'm one of the many that suffers the infamous C++ crash so my experience comes from game sessions in between game crashes. So i'm not the best source for a positive reaction, i suppose.

I can't think of anything that TL did right, or well enough to warrant the thought of taking the idea and putting it in DoP or DC. I do remember something from another game in their history (sort of) that i liked. At some point the Diablo people formed Click entertainment and released one game (as far as i know, just the one) called Throne Of Darkness. I though it was a gem for many reasons, one of which was the setting (historical Japan). It had this system where you could choose to either sell your excess loot, or throw it into the smith's cauldron. At some time you could access that cauldron and take an item from it. The more you threw in, the better the chance that the item that came out was good. It didn't work really well in Throne (the balance was off, i never managed to get a nice item from it) but i liked the system: give the smith your raw materials and he forges something nice from it for you. I recognize that such a system is tricky to balance but it's something you don't see often in western RPGs, though it does pop up in many JRPGs, and i thought it was fun.

Now i'm off to pre-purchase DC. I'm really looking forward to playing it, i had a great time with DoP.

Del137
02-16-2010, 07:49 AM
Well, FATE or Torhlight have some good ideas, for example:
- Pet management (even with spells and equipment)
Maybe Necromancer may have some monster parts drops to upgrade his minion? (Well, it's mostly from Vanguard SOH :cool: )
- Fishing (sadly the only one sandbox element, i sure it's not that hard to realize in Din's Curse)
- Enchanting items with some (SOME, not unlimited!) gems installed in items
- Instances quests (also with phase monster kills, portal opens etc)
- Some engine physics to throw mobs away or be pushed by them
- 2.5 dimesions world, mobs able to crawl from second floors, ladders etc.
- and yes, posibility to command your pet(s) - Aggressive, passive etc.

Viliki
03-24-2010, 08:38 PM
Torchlight isn't a perfect game but it push forward some design approach to make in my opinion an improved gameplay of fights if you don't use a too easy difficulty level (normal mode will be a lot too easy for most players).

I think there's 5 keys elements:

The big idea is to slowdown everything at depends of realism but to increase player chance to dodge and as a side affect to allow confront him at same time ton of monsters:

A symbolic and very fun example are goblins archer, they throw three arrows on you but the arrows only felt on ground with a noise and each setup a delayed bomb. The sound is special and you have time to flee.
This seems simple but in fact when there are ton of monsters around and sometime multiple archers in a same room, that's not that easy and that's very fun.
The second idea is to design many special skills not only involving standard effects but also physics and movements. It adds a lot to gameplay diversity:

The most brilliant design relative to this is certainly the Destroyer like with Stampede a brutal move forward damaging anything on path,
Slash a wide slash hitting anything in front and in range and you don't need aim any target.
But the two other classes get some nice idea too. For example the Alchemist have many skills involving knockback which is a more interesting and funny effect than pure stun.
Or the Vanquisher has a skill with an arrow that can bounce, very fun to use.

The third idea is that many skills and even standard attack for the Archer don't need aim an enemy but set only the direction:

For example with the Vanquisher you could stop or slowdown a large army of monsters coming through a bridge just by shooting arrows in the right direction, and with knockback effect it's even more fun.
Or many skills just need you point in the right direction, and the game take care hit what's is in range of the attack.

The fourth point is that the game offer many elements to help distract a bit the focus of monsters on the player.

All class can use some spells and some of them are summons.
All have a pet.
And Alchemist has some more nice summons.
Some skills also take part of simplifying the player action when buried in mass of monsters.
Some skills are based on an aura that mainly slowdown significantly anything around and close enough.
Or some skills are mainly a knockback effect on all monsters close and around the player.
Or one skill involves a knockback and a very short stunning allowing the more close range class the get some air when surrounded by enemies.
Another very cool skill idea is a ghost that envelops the player and attack with its sword any enemy in range ie in close range to the player, quote how you still have a control but simplified you carry this offensive ability by your movements.
In Dins some class has a sort of summon to also help not concentrate monsters focus on the player and the Trickster has the very fun Stealth and Ranger a skill to get unnoticed. But the key point and very fun is the monsters clans that are enemies to some other monsters clans. But when a level doesn't have such setup the player could use some of the idea thrown in Torchlight to help not have monsters focusing only on the player.

The fifth key is that dungeons are in 3D/2.5D with a real use of height and that's a breeze for such games and this often take a part in the action.
In Dins it's not fully flat there's two very fun use of heights, ceilings falling on you and when you fall in a hole. :-)


I think this is a brilliant design very generous in ideas but the game has also many flaws. Some I quote just to Highlight I don't think Torchlight is a good example for those points, in fact for some Fate is a better check to do:

The quest system is very simple and very far to the stunning depth of the quest system in Din.
The pet system is coming from Fate and is bringing new idea like the ability to make your pet learn two spells. But even if it plays a role in distracting a bit the attention of some enemies, not always but rather often. The whole system has many flaws that hadn't Fate with pet design:

In Torchlight higher difficulty the pet is often only fleeing because hurt to zero life.
The pets morphs are for most totally useless.
The behaviors you could set are just not well programmed and don't work well but the idea was good.
And many more, in Fact it's better look at Fate to get a better point of view of such design of pets, even if Fate too isn't perfect in that matter.

In Torchlight you fight ton of monsters at same time and kill ton too (much more than in Din) alas they didn't get the idea like in Din to hide items labels during a fight and allow enable pick of item on ground only with a click on label. The fights are in fact rather clear and more than any similar game but this 'items on ground' problem and labels if you always show them is a real trouble.
For the gems too it's a little failure and better check the much better system in Fate.

Jorlen
04-27-2010, 03:00 PM
What's funny is I bought Torchlight from steam when it was on sale for $5 and I briefly tried it out, but at the same time as I was just getting into it, I ran into Din's Curse and have been too busy with the latter :)

In the few minutes of playing Torchlight, it really felt like Travis Baldree's past solo effort, I think it was called Fate. I noticed tons of similarities right away. So, if it plays like a beefed-up Fate, then I'm sure to enjoy it. Some of the things I really liked in Fate was the fishing minigame, the permanent pet that you can send to town to sell your stuff, and the fact that you can add magical properties to items but at a risk AND a cost. The more properties you assign, the more you risk of getting a negative effect, or something like that. Anyways, it was a good balance of risk VS reward and it was fun trying to upgrade gear without screwing it up

DC could certainly borrow some of those ideas, specially a magic effect gambler of sorts as I was just describing. I think that sort of mechanic adds a lot to the game aside from the usual dungeon crawling (so does the fishing mini-game of fate) and I wouldn't think it overly difficult to throw in the mix either.

TheRani
04-28-2010, 12:28 AM
What's funny is I bought Torchlight from steam when it was on sale for $5 and I briefly tried it out, but at the same time as I was just getting into it, I ran into Din's Curse and have been too busy with the latter :)

In the few minutes of playing Torchlight, it really felt like Travis Baldree's past solo effort, I think it was called Fate. I noticed tons of similarities right away. So, if it plays like a beefed-up Fate, then I'm sure to enjoy it. Some of the things I really liked in Fate was the fishing minigame, the permanent pet that you can send to town to sell your stuff, and the fact that you can add magical properties to items but at a risk AND a cost. The more properties you assign, the more you risk of getting a negative effect, or something like that. Anyways, it was a good balance of risk VS reward and it was fun trying to upgrade gear without screwing it up

DC could certainly borrow some of those ideas, specially a magic effect gambler of sorts as I was just describing. I think that sort of mechanic adds a lot to the game aside from the usual dungeon crawling (so does the fishing mini-game of fate) and I wouldn't think it overly difficult to throw in the mix either.

Torchlight is basically Fate with character classes and skill trees done Diablo II-style, and a plot that isn't randomly generated. In Fate, everybody had access to the same skills, and there wasn't really anything you could do with your weapon beyond basic attacking. There were no non-passive fighting skills. Only spells. And fishing was a bit different in regards to the type of stuff you could fish for.