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Cadfan
02-07-2010, 09:34 PM
I still find level 15 to be unplayable.

Either there is something seriously wrong with my high level character's skill or gear, or there are major, major balance issues.

I am playing a Weaponmaster / Fire Mage. I am level 15. My enemies are level 15. I have two ranks in Sword Mastery, one in Arms Mastery, and four ranks in Power Attack. I also have three ranks in Fire Shield and one in Flame Weapon. My current sword gives me a DPS of 13.9, which turns into 21.4 in the character screen.

My attack is 232, for 89% accuracy vs level 15 opponents.
My defense is 146 for 63% accuracy from level 15 opponents.
My armor is 161 for 45% absorbed.
My hit points are 184.

Am I failing to meet benchmarks? Or is this what I should be expected to have as a character in mail armor with a two handed weapon?

Every fight is a serious risk of death. Not every overall brawl- every individual monster.

Oh, and the Flame Minion has 20 hit points at one skill rank. That doesn't get him very far. I've reinvested the points I spent on him. I don't know what his ranks should be, but level 15 monsters are in triple digits.

ShaggyMoose
02-07-2010, 09:43 PM
Hang on, there is a patch already?

Cadfan
02-07-2010, 09:48 PM
Yep, its on the main site. It was stealth-released. :)

getter77
02-07-2010, 09:49 PM
Yep, check the announcments board/patches section on the Din's Curse page.

Shadow
02-07-2010, 10:13 PM
I still find level 15 to be unplayable.

Either there is something seriously wrong with my high level character's skill or gear, or there are major, major balance issues.

Can you zip up your user directory and send it to me? Make sure you get the one that actually has your characters in it.

Cadfan
02-07-2010, 10:35 PM
I sent it by email because I wasn't quite smart enough to realize that this forum accepts attachments.

ShaggyMoose
02-07-2010, 11:14 PM
Yep, its on the main site. It was stealth-released. :)
Oh... I was expecting a note in this forum when that was released. Installing now. :)

From the change notes: "escort npcs are now blind".

I get the idea, but its still amusing.

Lyranaar
02-08-2010, 07:58 AM
After quickly doing two very small maps (about 5 Dungeon floors both) patched to 901 some thoughts:

Overall it feels much more manageable now. One Map was set to 12 one on 14. Both players are L17 atm and I consider them our strongest party.

We mostly were able to solve any problem quickly, but we had few bosses and no raids at all as we very quickly solved the quests. One or two deliveries/rescues messed up, more solved.

Only major problem we ran into were a few Darkelf Mages. They killed us two or three times both with their ice storm. While there is always huge room to improve on resistances I feel they are too tough. If you got a group of three for example, after a few moments you have about the same number of ice storms around you. After you get hit by one projectile you often can't escape as you are chilled. About 3 hits kill. They may also crit with the storm, so it's tough.
We solved the problem in that case by blasting them from huge distance and lots of running. The map had much free space, so that worked. I don't think in smaller room or by close combat you can do more than one and tell the tale.

The minor problem in both maps was the lack of quests. It seemed that we were too fast or there was simply no boss around to take over. So no new quest appeared in each about 20-30 minutes we played each map.
I'm starting to feel that a nice and gloomy boss down in the dungeon is the key for a "killer" map. The normal menaces of dungeon life just can't compare.

(Patch 901)

Shadow
02-08-2010, 08:59 PM
I still find level 15 to be unplayable.

I was doing ok with your character until I ran into the dark elf wizards.

Cadfan
02-09-2010, 04:07 PM
1. I got multiple death notifications for a townsperson killed in a raid. A raiding zombie killed him, he rose from the dead, I killed him again, and I got notifications each time.

2. I may have rendered a quest uncompletable. It was a monster group quest, and I was doing a lot of jumping in and out of the town portal to help fight it, and I'm pretty sure I killed the leading monster but never got credit for it. I'll scour the level to verify as soon as I can, I've had to go back and defend the town from raids and squelch some other problems for the moment.

3. Blight is really, really good, particularly when used through walls. In general, spells that work through walls may be too good. The balancing effect on them seems to be that they draw every monster in a huge radius when you cast them, but if you can cast through walls that's kind of moot.

4. I'll have to take your word for it that my level 15 weaponmaster / fire mage is on balance. I find it to grind very, very slowly through your typical room of equal level monsters, and to die instantly or nearly instantly when certain spells are cast.

Shadow
02-09-2010, 04:16 PM
4. I'll have to take your word for it that my level 15 weaponmaster / fire mage is on balance. I find it to grind very, very slowly through your typical room of equal level monsters, and to die instantly or nearly instantly when certain spells are cast.

I actually rebalanced a bunch of things after playing your character for a bit. I should have said that it was harder than I would have liked but I was managing to survive until I ran into some dark elf wizards. They just totally slaughtered me.

Cadfan
02-09-2010, 05:11 PM
Ok, that matches my experience.

Cadfan
02-09-2010, 09:11 PM
Yeah, I'm about 99% certain that I killed "Nightbringer" but that it didn't register. It registered the deaths of all of the rest of his group of monsters, but not him, and since that was a mandatory quest, the town is unwinnable.

Cadfan
02-10-2010, 01:32 PM
I was using Blight to kill things through a locked door, and the dark elf inside broke the door to get out and attack me. That was kind of cool. I'm not sure that Blighting through walls is a good thing, but it was neat that the AI was smart enough to try to escape. Even if he died the moment he got out.

At level 14, I came across a weather machine. It had 432 hit points. This took a very, very long time to kill, with continual Blight and continual melee attack. I can understand machines being a little tough, but this seemed extreme. A rockfall at the same level had only 300+ hp.

redman5427
02-10-2010, 03:19 PM
Still experiencing problems with the online multiplayer
Logged in to a guys game in Texas-I am in Michigan
I have Dsl with all ports open on my router- in fact I have tried using Dmz mode without any success

Whats happens is I am able to join or host and run around the world fine but when combat starts is when the lagging begins and it doesnt stop once you come back to town.

Also, when I logged out and came back to the server list screen, there was no list of servers- I have had this issue with playing on the lan at home also.
Usually a restart of the game fixes it.

Last night I was using a fresh build of win 7 quad core Amd with all drivers updated

Kruztee
02-10-2010, 05:44 PM
I can confirm this kind of behaviour as well. Initially when joining a game, it seems fine. I could chat and collect quests without much lag at all. As soon as the party moved into the dungeon, there were massive synch issues that would see the game lag up for me with delays of up to 30-40 seconds. If I headed back to town, there'd be a flurry of hyper speed activity (often culminating in me dying) before my client would once again be in synch with the host. At the time I put this down to geographical separation and/or a dodgy internet connection. My host was in the mid-west of the USA and I was playing at the time on a hotel internet connection from Perth in Western Australia.

Cadfan
02-10-2010, 05:49 PM
I noticed a problem with a Revenant. It was walking around, but I couldn't attack it. Then it did the rise from the earth animation, then slid across the room, then became a started attacking and interacting with me like normal.

Also, a quest suggestion- lairs. You already have hidden rooms, why not a quest to hunt down a monster hiding in a lair?

Shadow
02-10-2010, 06:08 PM
Also, a quest suggestion- lairs. You already have hidden rooms, why not a quest to hunt down a monster hiding in a lair?

There are lairs, they just aren't part of the quests. :)

Cadfan
02-10-2010, 10:53 PM
1. I got credit for the death of an orc clan hunter. I never even saw him, and didn't use any area of effect attacks. I assume other monsters killed him.

2. I turned on Din, and every letter was replaced with a white rectangle. I restarted Din, and it was fine. I've had similar things happen to my cursor once or twice. The cursor problem happened in DoP as well. Restarting fixes it.

Kruztee
02-10-2010, 11:41 PM
2. I turned on Din, and every letter was replaced with a white rectangle. I restarted Din, and it was fine. I've had similar things happen to my cursor once or twice. The cursor problem happened in DoP as well. Restarting fixes it.

This has happened to me once or twice too.

Cadfan
02-11-2010, 02:19 AM
1. You get no experience at all for undead versions of regular monsters. This kind of bites when you can't help the fact that undead have overrun a level of the dungeon and turned everything into zombies.

2. When you look at a door or possibly trapped object, it tells you a percentage likelihood that its trapped, and then a "chance correct." This is an awkward phrase, since it seems to imply that something with a 30% chance of being trapped is 70% likely not to be trapped. How about "certainty?"

3. I had dark elf rogues attack the town. They killed enough npcs that the town ended. The moment the town attack was announced I ran for home, but they were all dead before I got half way. I wasn't very far out- just a monster free run across half a level to a known location of a teleport.

4. What about, as a positive quest reward, defensive totems placed inside your town? Objects that attack monsters and gain monster hate, but which do not cost you reputation or cause you to lose when they die? Even if they do very little damage, if they just delay the monster and give you longer to return home, they'll be doing their job.

DeathKnight1728
02-11-2010, 02:46 AM
I just took a break from an abysmal time i had with a town.

The town had for modifiers:

-Unstable
-Darkness Machine
-Weather Machine
-A Little bit of earthquakes

and 3 attacks on the town after 10 minutes of the game; which made me lose all the town-members.

There has got to be some kind of limit to how many modifiers a map can have because its just suicide without that.

And for some weird reason the monsters sometimes move really fast still.

Other than that, i am having a blast with this beta version of the game!

Oh and just a thought but, maybe for the advanced players they can choose to have more modifiers for a town when they have really good equipment and stats and skills. This might make the game more challenging for those that want something different to try. Just a thought....

Aganazer
02-11-2010, 09:57 AM
A couple notes from last night's play session.

Not sure if this is a bug, but I was able to spam Shock Bolts at an amazing rate. While trying to increase my damage I realized I could hold down the 1 key for my standard bow attack, then while keeping 1 pressed I could press my other buttons for Shock Bolt and Exploding Arrow (which works great now btw!). I noticed my Shock Bolts were able to fire without interrupting my base attack. Then I found out I could not just hold down the 1 key for my base attack, but I could hold down the 2 key for my Shock Bolt. I could easily have 2-3 Shock Bolts in the air before they would even hit the MOB. The overall DPS was pretty crazy compared to anything I had done previously.

Doing this wasn't entirely unbalanced though since I would run out of mana very quickly. With some beer and pots I could keep it going. I can't figure out if this is a bug or if I just learned to play better.

I also abandoned another town after reaching dungeon level 5 and MOB level 10 (I was level 12). Everything was going great starting out. I got to level 5, found the Darkness Machine, and destroyed it clearing about half the level in the process. When I returned to town they gave me two quests to kill bosses on level 5. I went back to level 5 which was fully respawned by then (too soon!). The problem is that about 50% or more of the MOB's were now champions! I can handle a few champions here and there, but I reach a point where the sheer damage required to kill them versus my own DPS versus my available consumable resources just can't keep up. Maybe I could have worked my way through with enough persistence, but the nature of the spawn combined with the fact that I had already pushed pretty hard just to finish the level once already may have demoralized me. I'm not sure what funky mojo needs to happen on a level to make it spawn so many champions, but it wasn't a very rewarding experience.

viper34j
02-11-2010, 10:37 AM
4. What about, as a positive quest reward, defensive totems placed inside your town? Objects that attack monsters and gain monster hate, but which do not cost you reputation or cause you to lose when they die? Even if they do very little damage, if they just delay the monster and give you longer to return home, they'll be doing their job.

I absolutely second this. Could a variation of the Covenant defensive mechanic from DoP be used in town? This way you could assign some AI guards at various places around the town center to ensure that there is at least some protection while you make your mad dash for the surface.

GeorgiaBoy
02-11-2010, 11:01 AM
Love this idea, or whatever is the easiest way to implement this...Maybe one (or more) of the townspeople could be a guard if you complete a quest...A totem is cool too..

GB

Aganazer
02-11-2010, 11:12 AM
Love this idea, or whatever is the easiest way to implement this...Maybe one (or more) of the townspeople could be a guard if you complete a quest...A totem is cool too..

GB

In another thread I had the idea of finding mercenaries in the dungeon that you could hire to guard the town. Another idea is to find or assign a watchman of some sort that gives you early warning of a town attack (in game terms it would just delay the attack by some amount of time after you get the attack message).

Whatever way its handled, I'm all for some way to feel more invested in the town's security.

Cadfan
02-11-2010, 11:38 AM
1. Attacking objects while stealthed doesn't reveal you. It gives you a surprise penalty, but doesn't make you visible.

2. I had a quest to find a silt amorph clot. I killed a whole lot of silt amorphs, but no clot. I know this could be a random number thing, bu seriously, I killed a LOT of silt amorphs.

Cadfan
02-12-2010, 03:19 PM
When you are shrunken, your helmet does not shrink. This may be intentional, because it looks hilarious.

I had a quest to kill a scabrous burst boss monster. The moment it saw me, it exploded itself. I did no damage to it. I was credited with completing the quest. I understand why this happened, but it seemed anticlimactic. I would have rather beaten up on the enormous, super-sized scabrous burst, then run away in terror when it started to swell.

The jumping spider is still glitchy. He bounces around when he jumps, and you can't target him correctly.

I just killed an altar with 1008 hp. I was level 17 at the time. It was taking absolutely forever, until I lit my sword on fire with Flame Blade, and then I chopped it to pieces very quickly. I assume that this was the fire damage? Or perhaps it was just luck. Either way, killing altars is cool, but taking forever to kill an altar is less cool since there's no risk or challenge. Right after this altar fight, I went to the next altar. It had 300 hp. So I guess these vary a lot.

When you try to use a power but you don't have enough mana, it makes a sound to tell you that you're dry. This sound is repeatedly played, very quickly, as long as the skill's key is down. It comes across as a sort of stuttering noise. It really should play only once per press, or at least recycle a little more slowly.

In town, you can walk through the weapon and armor stands placed around the smiths.

I don't remember whether this was a post patch issue or not, but door health bars are still weird. If a door is damaged and then opened, or damaged while opening, they stick around. But the door itself is gone, so its just a floating health bar.

Cadfan
02-12-2010, 03:22 PM
And a good thing!

Ever since picking up Whirlwind Attack, I like my character again. The balance seems about right at the moment (level 17), and I feel a lot more dynamic. My character is as of yet a bit simple- I have my regular attack to generate mana, my power attack for killing enemies, and my whirlwind for when enemies surround me. I keep constant fire shield, and boost myself with flame blade in emergencies. Sooner or later I'll add adrenaline, and eventually I'll even add the flame elemental minion. It seems pretty good for a hybrid character, especially considering that I can't really make use of a lot of my fire mage skills, and a lot of my weaponmaster skills aren't usable for me due to weapon choice or are passive skills.

Cadfan
02-12-2010, 03:31 PM
And finally some suggestions.

Terrain effects are small and kind of boring. A little tiny drop of magma is just something to walk around and ignore. A big pool of magma gets your attention, and makes you actually change your plans.

I don't know how this works at this stage, but when I arrive at a new town I kind of want to look around and see the shops. But I feel an intense time pressure to go solve things before they get worse. Maybe it would be a good idea to delay or slow timers until the first time a player enters a dungeon? I'm not sure how that would work in practice since you'd want to not only delay or stop the timer, you'd want to let the player know so the player isn't rushing himself due to incorrect information. And that means you'd need a logical explanation for why the town is on hold until you enter the dungeon. Still, it seems like the start of an idea.

Please, please, please create some framework for the generation of a readable narrative summarizing a town. And make it something the player can edit. Even if you can do is string together the quest intros and a notice saying when they've been completed, that would be great. Oh, and make it exportable.

Cadfan
02-12-2010, 03:33 PM
And two more!

Please squelch the sound while choosing hybrid options. Its loud, and since you can't see the character, it lacks context.

If I understand correctly, each level of Spirit gives you .05 mana regeneration. Or rather, every other level gives you .1 mana regeneration. Right now the display only counts in increments of .1. Why not count in increments of .05, so that you can see each level, and so that you don't have dead levels?

Cadfan
02-12-2010, 05:45 PM
Just failed a town. Fell from level 3 to level 6, then the town got a scout, then it got an assassin, then it got a clan of orc raiders. I eventually got back to town by being killed by a boss monster, at which point one too many NPCs were killed and I lost the town.

This leaves me in a new town with no way to go back for my soulstone, and with several completed quests for which I'll never get credit.

I don't know if this is a flaw, really, its just something that's very frustrating. Falling several levels is already a bad thing to have happen to you because you are suddenly fighting tougher monsters and you have no way to resupply. Having the town also come under attack just seems like too much at that point.

Ephemera
02-12-2010, 06:50 PM
Please squelch the sound while choosing hybrid options. Its loud, and since you can't see the character, it lacks context.

I absolutely second this.

FloodSpectre
02-12-2010, 07:10 PM
Terrain effects are small and kind of boring. A little tiny drop of magma is just something to walk around and ignore. A big pool of magma gets your attention, and makes you actually change your plans.


I was just thinking about this today. A huge pool of it, or even flowing "rivers" of magma could be a lot of fun, provided the dungeon generator only creates one if it can also create a natural or constructed bridge to cross over it with. Wouldn't want to be cut off from the other side of a dungeon, or worse yet, the entrance to the next level down, by something you simply can't cross.

Somewhat in the same vein, I thought it might be interesting to have actual pools of water in the dungeon. They could serve a purpose too; you or any monster currently on fire could get into the water and immediately end the DoT effect. It could even prevent the DoT from triggering while you're in the water when you get hit, so you'd take the initial damage but not ignite. Further still, the water could give you and other creatures a "wet" effect for ten seconds (or whatever time works), preventing fire DoT for the duration. On the other hand, you'd have a fun time with electrical attacks. :D

I'm also in the camp for squelching the attack sound on character creation.

Cadfan
02-12-2010, 08:05 PM
I had a graphics glitch with some barrels. They displayed red sides instead of textured sides. It happened intermittently as I moved about.

Liches are rough. I don't have a good feeling for whether they're unfair or whether I was just fighting them under poor circumstances- two pinned me down in a hallway by summoning undead dark elf reavers as fast as I could kill them. I eventually, and slowly, slipped past and cut the liches down.

FloodSpectre
02-12-2010, 09:21 PM
I had a graphics glitch with some barrels. They displayed red sides instead of textured sides. It happened intermittently as I moved about.

I've had something similar occur with obelisks as well, and I swear a secret stash once or twice. Not really sure why it would do that.

ShaggyMoose
02-12-2010, 10:58 PM
I have found that the Ranger ice trap has a tendency to launch itself over the heads of the intended victim, even when they are stationary and at a fair range. Its even worse when they are right on top of you. If anything, it should try to drop between you and the enemy.

Cadfan
02-13-2010, 01:29 AM
Undead demons give birth to live parasite demon spawn. Seems like they should also be undead.

It would be neat if the quests were divided up a little more evenly amongst the levels of the dungeon. Its a little frustrating to begin a new world and find that my quests are almost all on level 5.

I was instantly killed by a fire trap, even though I resist about 50% fire damage due to my fire shield, and even though I was at my full health of about 200. The fire trap was next to an elemental totem, and I was at ground zero when it went off (didn't notice it since it was close to an overlapping wall).

I was instantly killed by an energy trap (unsure of the name) that caused a cave in that fell on my head. Again, full health. This time the trap was in a chest. Does armor protect against cave in damage?

Cadfan
02-13-2010, 01:17 PM
Three more things.

1. Sometimes the sparks that rise from burning objects or spells pixelate. I see little squares of the appropriate color that rise and shrink. It happens randomly on certain startups of the program.

2. I had a quest to kill two monsters in a meeting. I killed one, but never even found the other. The one I killed was alone in a small room. Perhaps the other spawned on the other side of the wall?

3. Flame Blade is amazing! I didn't read it correctly! Its duration scales with the ranks you put into it. This might be too good. I have two ranks in it at level 21, and my dps goes from 42 to 60 when its active. With one more rank, that will be an even bigger increase and the duration will equal the recharge time, meaning I will always keep it running. I had assumed it was like a "concentration" skill where you get a 30 second boost every few minutes, but apparently its a permanent upgrade. I'm not sure what to think of it- my character, a weaponmaster / fire mage, is probably best suited to exploit it, and exploit it I shall.

Cadfan
02-13-2010, 01:18 PM
Oh, and I had two groups of elementals get into a war. Which is cool and all, except that the war notification told me that the "elementals" were at war with the "elementals." It might be best to include the type of elemental, so that it doesn't look like a civil war.

Although a civil war plotline might be cool.

Cadfan
02-13-2010, 02:11 PM
Graphics glitch: green colors coming and going on ice elementals and fallen rocks.

Quest glitch: I failed a quest, and as a result, won a town. It was a quest to ambush a meeting of monsters, and I didn't get to it in time. The quest failed, and I was instantly offered the win for the town.

I gave up on a town. The entrance to level 3 was in a large room. The room had spiders that shoot webs, dark elf elementalists, liches, nagas, and a few other monsters. The spiders repeatedly locked me in place while the elementalists and liches pummeled me with spells. The worst was the ice shower, because its damage is so high if you can't escape, and I was completely immobile. Even when I got free, I couldn't run fast enough to chase down the elementalists. I don't know what can be done about this. The easiest solution would have been an alternative entrance to level 3.

That might actually be a pretty cool way to improve the game. Create multiple entrances and exits for various levels. Maybe when you fall from one level to another, it creates a permanent gate? I dunno.

Cadfan
02-14-2010, 04:59 AM
I had a bag vendor show up in town. She had no bags.

The scaling on potions and food seems a little off. A potion I can purchase from any shopkeep at my level (22) heals 187 to 385 damage. I have 207 hit points, with a base vitality of 30 plus some gear. I would be extremely happy if I could purchase the smaller, much cheaper potions, but unless there's a potion vendor, I can't.

I lost a town that I think was unbeatable. Town raid showed up while I was a few feet from a gate, but with a few monsters in the way. I got back pretty fast, but in that time all but one vendor was killed, and two of my main quest givers. Then, after I killed off the attacking lightning elementals and their gate, and started to sell some gear to the remaining vendor, a new special monster appeared. It killed off one townsfolk before I killed it. Then, while I was selling the gear from THAT monster, a scabrous burst scout showed up and killed a townsfolk, and I lost the town. I honestly don't think I could have done anything more.

viper34j
02-14-2010, 01:49 PM
There does appear to be a problem with town attacks. Sometimes I one will never occur, and sometimes they will occur every couple of minutes.

Cadfan
02-14-2010, 02:02 PM
I had flame blade active, and got shrunken. Flame blade turned off, but of course the recharge time on it was still present, so I couldn't use it. Not a major issue, but one that surprised me.

When you open a chest, you can still click on the opened chest for a second or two as it fades. If you do, you attack the chest. This is unnecessary.

I am not 100% on this, but I think all altars have the same graphics? I haven't had the chance to compare them. Considering that there are several types of altars, some good, some bad, it might be nice to vary them a little. An easy way would be to vary the color of their glow effect?

FloodSpectre
02-14-2010, 02:42 PM
Sometimes crates spawn partially covering a torch. This can look a little strange as the items occupy the same space.

When revealing an illusion, I appear to gain experience twice for it.

Cadfan
02-14-2010, 06:25 PM
Spiders can jump through doors.

I'm at level 25, and I'm a bit sick of monsters that can kill me in one hit. I have decent mail armor and 35 points in vitality. I am particularly annoyed when a fire ring trap kills me in one hit- I have 45% absorbtion of equal level fire.

One of the things that made DoP work is that you could maneuver around and try to attack monsters on your own terms. Din's has changed that in two ways. First, the stamina tracker makes hit and run tactics unworkable. Second, between the hallways and the fact that each region has a single entrance through a gate of some kind, you are essentially forced to take certain battlefields exactly as they come. This is a serious problem when that battlefield involves a whole bunch of dark elf spellcasters arrayed in a circle around you. I don't know a good solution. Rather than rebalancing the game, maybe it would help to make multiple paths through the dungeon?

The dungeon entrances look a little out of place. I know they're imported from DoP, but they're usually very earthy structures that happen to exist right in the middle of an established town.

The increased number of classes and the hybrid system means that plate armor is used by only a small number of characters- fighters, and those who play hybrids that involve the defender specialization. Is the drop rate adjusted to compensate?

The same is true of cloth armor. Few characters will actually wear cloth, because somewhere in their ability suite they will have someone who can wear leather or mail.

Its not bad that the availability of food and potions grow faster than the typical characters hit points so that the only potions available tend to cure twice your hp per drink, because high hp characters should have potions too. But the fact that lower level food and potions are so rare is a problem because it means you spend far more money than you need to, and that's a problem given all the different ways you lose money in Din's such as repair costs and the increased cost of food when machines are active.

tg122
02-14-2010, 06:53 PM
I agree that the rarity of lower level healing/mana regeneration items is a problem. Once I get to the lower levels of a world, I often hit a wall with my character where I can no longer afford healing/mana regen items because I spend all my money on only a handful of items. Money drops are not great enough to keep up with the price of the healing/mana regen items. I'm forced to spend 6 silver on 1 item where I should be able to spend 60 copper on another weaker one and get the same effect.

Cadfan
02-14-2010, 07:44 PM
Some other issues.

The lack of a town portal like in DoP means that you will spend less time healing for free at your home base. This makes the cost of healing more important.

The lack of a town portal also means that its a much, much longer walk from home to the monster that just killed you, and will probably kill you again since he does 90% of your hit points per hit. This adds insult to the injury of fighting a monster that's killing you over and over. And you can't stop fighting it, of course, because its got two or three of your soulstones. There were fights in DoP that I only won by doing hit and runs out of my town portal, because the monster's damage was so high that I needed a potion after every hit, and potions have a recharge time. This doesn't work in Din's, but the monsters seem just as rough.

I'm not saying that a town portal device should be added. But this does affect the game.

Anyways, I'm starting to feel balance problems at level 27. Its bad enough that I'll probably stop playing that character. I have what is probably an unfairly good attack due to mixing flame blade with weaponmaster, the build most suited to exploit flame blade. My damage per second is over a hundred. My armor absorbs about 60% damage, and I have a fair amount over 200 hp. I just ran into those big stomping demons that cause earthquakes, and its just not fun to die instantly because you walked sort of near someone, or to get hit once by an elite and die. It wasn't so bad for a while because my damage is pretty good, but I think its reached a limit. I'm just tired of walking back to pick up soulstones, and gaining exp at half speed.

Cadfan
02-14-2010, 07:46 PM
I guess I should note that I think that stomping monsters that cause earthquakes are pretty cool conceptually, I just hate dying instantly without being able to do anything about it, resurrecting, using a portal to the floor above where I died, running across the whole level, coming out of a portal on the floor where I actually died, and then traveling another lengthy distance only to die again and repeat the process.

Cadfan
02-15-2010, 01:07 PM
I played my high level character again, even though I said I wouldn't.

It was lame when the earthquake stomping guys were around. One death versus them involved coming around a corner, and seeing just one of them. I ran towards him, and died before I got there from the earthquake attack. I was at full health, and he was alone.

But later, when I got past them, it wasn't bad. Things are still a bit more erratic than I'd expect with what I believe to be a relatively solid character defensively, but it was playable. I did notice some issues.

The wisps seem to be in a civil war. They're attacking each other. Is this on purpose?

They also attack through walls sometimes.

I can activate Flame Blade twice on the same character to get double the effect. All I have to do is wait for the recharge time to complete, then reactivate it before its duration has run out.

I fought some horrors. It seems that they teleport me now, instead of teleporting themselves like in DoP. This could be intentional?

FloodSpectre
02-15-2010, 01:51 PM
I fought some horrors. It seems that they teleport me now, instead of teleporting themselves like in DoP. This could be intentional?

This sounds like what some enemies in Angband would do. I believe there were packs of hounds that could teleport you, and imps did it too. You know, it actually may be interesting to have a monster that teleports you to him, rather than sending you away...

Shadow
02-15-2010, 02:04 PM
The wisps seem to be in a civil war. They're attacking each other. Is this on purpose?

They aren't actually attacking each other. They are essentially charging each other. Each time they chain to each other they get a damage buff for a few seconds.

Cadfan
02-15-2010, 03:21 PM
Ah, I see. That might explain the "through the walls" thing. I know they did that to each other, I'm not sure it ever happened to me.

In the meantime,

Starting at a higher level than 24 seems glitched. I just started a town at level 26, but the chart only showed me options for levels up to 24. My character is level 28.

Jeweler had no items.

Berserk Targ Champion seems to have shrunk upon death.

I won another town by failing a delivery quest. To complete the quest I would have had to fight from level 5 down to level 9, and then make the delivery. I lost on level 7.

incognoscente
02-15-2010, 03:31 PM
I am often winning worlds that way lately. I do all of the uprisings and bosses and then a late-late-game delivery quest will appear. Almost invariably I don't arrive in time (too far away) and fail the quest but win the world because it was the last non-optional quest remaining and I passed all of the others.

The point is: I don't think that's a bug, but it is quite anticlimactic.

viper34j
02-15-2010, 04:09 PM
I think that if the last required quest is failed, a new question should be created as a consequence of the failure.

Aganazer
02-15-2010, 04:45 PM
I think that if the last required quest is failed, a new question should be created as a consequence of the failure.

That or just make them optional. They hardly seem essential to the survival of a town. Most required quests are big nasty bosses, uprisings, devious threatening machines, factions that declared war on the town, but a package delivery seems fairly inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

Cadfan
02-17-2010, 12:52 PM
Some quest ideas-

Something tied into the torches. Light [X] unlit torches? Extinguish [X] lit torches?

When you do a quest for an NPC monster, make the reward a change in the behavior of that sort of monster. Even if its just a drop in spawn rate. Or spawn a champion of that sort of monster as a town guard.

Activate reconaissance totem- once active, gives early warning before town raids, giving you an extra [X] amount of time to get back to town.

Obtain [X] for weaponsmith/armorsmith- when complete, town members get bonus to attack and damage, or to defense and hit points.

Create defense totem- Obtain supplies for a town member to use in the construction of a defensive totem.

Create human totem- Destroy monster totems to recover items to be used in creating a totem for your own town.

Open gate- for towns with really deep dungeons, find an item in higher levels that automatically activates one or more deep level gates.

Cadfan
02-17-2010, 04:18 PM
Blinding Flash doesn't count as a minor distraction, or indeed as any kind of distraction at all. I'm not sure its supposed to, but it seemed like it should.

Aganazer
02-17-2010, 04:48 PM
Great quest ideas!

How about an option on the gambler that lets you bet on whether you rescue the town. He sells them as tickets with various costs and different return rates. If you rescue the town then you find the money you won in the victory chest.

Cadfan
02-17-2010, 05:29 PM
Actually, my ultimate dream would be to add some areas outside of the town, create multiple dungeons instead of just one, and then place them outside as well.

Then I'd make quests go back and forth between the various locations. It would not only make the game more scenic and add some immersion, it would make it easier to get to your quests. I'd make the dungeons a little more shallow, and just use more than one. So you wouldn't end up frustrated that you can't possibly complete a quest on level 9 of a dungeon when all of your exploration had been on levels 1 and 2. Instead, at worst, you might have to leave one dungeon for a while to tackle the other and keep its denizens in check.

You could also add a quest to escort a new immigrant to the town- escort someone from an outdoor location back to the town itself, instead of to another region filled with monsters.

Valgor
02-17-2010, 09:09 PM
I haven't applied the 0.904 patch yet (I'll most certainly do so tomorrow), but here's some more minor graphical issues I've discovered... both concerning the game's bestiary.

- When I killed my first Lich, the game added the Death Knight to the bestiary as well. I swear I've never encountered a Death Knight with any of my characters before...
Also, the Death Knight entry's icon is missing the fancy frame the other icons have.

- The Dark Elf Priest doesn't get added to the bestiary correctly.
The "?" icon gets a fancy frame, but clicking it won't call up the Priest's bestiary entry.

By the way, the bestiary button in the skill bar's menu appears just a tad smaller than the other buttons... nothing really important, but it always catches my eye when I look at it.

Valgor
02-19-2010, 10:18 PM
- The Dark Elf Priest doesn't get added to the bestiary correctly.
The "?" icon gets a fancy frame, but clicking it won't call up the Priest's bestiary entry.

Actually, it's not the Dark Elf Priest but rather the Shadow...
Correction : It's really the Skeleton Warrior that gets unlocked alongside the regular Skeleton, but its picture won't show up until you've encountered one.

Also, regular (and perhaps all other varieties of) Screes don't seem to "level up" at all, every Scree I've seen up to now was lvl 1, even at the very bottom of the dungeon.

FloodSpectre
02-20-2010, 12:24 PM
Also, regular (and perhaps all other varieties of) Screes don't seem to "level up" at all, every Scree I've seen up to now was lvl 1, even at the very bottom of the dungeon.

I've noticed this is well, but I've only ever seen Scree in one dungeon thus far so I wasn't sure if it was an isolated incident (just me and just that dungeon). On the plus side, they tend to be some pretty easy fodder!

Nemhir
02-20-2010, 01:13 PM
Hi,

im playing a defender/shaman, very high hp -around 340 with buffs-, lvl 17 but i have some problem with :
1) dark elves mages : with a decent fireresist (40) im hit for 17+ crit 40+ and they fire too much fast , if i encounter 3+ im doomed, too much damage AND mana burn
2) Zalim the eternal mage : ive got attacked today and i have no means to hurt him : 30% lifesteal, regen , he fires fast as dark elves mages and lifesteal almost all dmg i can do..if i manage to hit him
3) big problem with defender : ranged crit doesnt trigger revenge and blocking a ranged atk doesnt trigger riposte...i need to autoatk and that doesnt works very well
3) some problem with glot(?), the shadowy little beings : they are hard to target and imho they do too much dmg
4) tone down the spawn rate and respawn : some dungeons are litterally filled with dozens mobs
5)limit the spawn rate of the plaguebringer larvae : on some maps or when stuck they can spawn 10+ nasty offsprings, and that means death
6) please,as others already have said, make the tunnels wider : if im stuck fighting a mob and behind there is a plague bringer it will spawn almost endlessy those nasty little horrors
7)make riposte and revenge work even if no mob is targetted, autotargetting the nearest : if i autoattack one creature riposte doesnt alway show, and i need to target manually
I have the save of the Zalim invasion if you want to check

Thanks for the hard work!

FloodSpectre
02-20-2010, 01:20 PM
1) dark elves mages : with a decent fireresist (40) im hit for 17+ crit 40+ and they fire too much fast , if i encounter 3+ im doomed, too much damage AND mana burn

Are you playing the latest patch version, .904? I mentioned this problem already and the latest patch toned down the mages noticeably. They used to completely annihilate my 150hp Rogue (50% fire resist), though the priests still tear me apart if I'm not careful.

3) some problem with glot(?), the shadowy little beings : they are hard to target and imho they do too much dmg

I think they're called Blot. I've noticed this as well. I think the difficulty in targeting them is fine and maybe even intentional, but their damage does seem a little high for such tiny little guys.

Nemhir
02-20-2010, 01:27 PM
Yes is 0.904

Where are saved my chars? I clicked on export button but i cant find the output file!

Thanks!
This is my char :

RheaLevel 17 Defender / ShamanStats

Health: 207 / 207
Mana: 102 / 114

Attack: 151
Defense: 300
Armor: 173

Damage: 7 - 31
Dps: 20.9

Reputation Level: 4

Money: 1GP 22SP 95CP

Attributes

Strength: 46
Dexterity: 47
Vitality: 32
Intelligence: 20
Spirit: 20

Points Left: 0

Resistances

Fire Resistance: 2
Cold Resistance: 48
Poison Resistance: 10
Lightning Resistance: 2
Magic Resistance: 11

Skills

Revenge lvl 1
Riposte lvl 1
Shield Bash lvl 1
Blocking lvl 2
Parry lvl 1
Plate Armor lvl 1
Shield Mastery lvl 1
Hardiness (Blessing) lvl 4
Fire Resistance (Protection) lvl 2
Lightning Resistance (Protection) lvl 2
Poison Resistance (Protection) lvl 2
Cold Resistance (Protection) lvl 2
Champion lvl 2

Points Left: 0

Equipment

Arctic Breeze
Cloth Cap
Rarity: Artifact Basic Type: Cloth
Durability 22 / 30
29 armor
+1 Vitality
+2 Intelligence
+18 Armor
+12 Maximum Mana
+8 Cold Resistance
Requires level 12
Requires armor skill: Cloth
Sell value: 2SP 19CP
Retail value: 14SP 58CP

Frostbite
Copper Plate Spaulder
Rarity: Elite Basic Type: Plate
Durability 27 / 34
32 armor
+6 Strength
+3 Dexterity
+3 Max Health
+8 Cold Resistance
+32% armor
Requires 60 Strength
Requires armor skill: Plate
Sell value: 2SP 62CP
Retail value: 17SP 49CP

Ice Heart
Hard Leather Vest
Rarity: Elite Basic Type: Leather
Durability 23 / 29
46 armor
+1 Strength
+5 Dexterity
+20 Armor
+8 Cold Resistance
+10% armor
Requires level 12
Requires armor skill: Leather
Sell value: 2SP 99CP
Retail value: 22SP 23CP

Cloth Cuffs
Rarity: Rare Basic Type: Cloth
Durability 17 / 22
4 armor
+1 Defense
+0.7 Health Regen
+1 Mana Regen
Requires level 9
Requires armor skill: Cloth
Sell value: 55CP
Retail value: 2SP 89CP

Damek's Gloves
Wool Gloves
Rarity: Set Basic Type: Cloth
Durability 22 / 24
10 armor
+5 Dexterity
+6 Armor
+22 Maximum Mana
+12 Cold Resistance

Damek's Set: Damek's Cap,
Damek's Tunic, Damek's Leggings,
Damek's Boots, Damek's Gloves

With 3 items:
+20 Cold Resistance

With all 5 items:
+40 Cold Resistance

Requires level 7
Requires armor skill: Cloth
Sell value: 2SP 17CP
Retail value: 11SP 45CP

Kracht's Pillage
Light Chain Belt
Rarity: Artifact Basic Type: Mail
Durability 10 / 16
6 armor
+3 Defense
+1 Armor
+5 Cold Resistance
+5% Find Items Chance
+18% Magic Find Chance
Requires 20 Strength
Requires armor skill: Mail
Sell value: 45CP
Retail value: 2SP 73CP

Nequam's Greaves
Light Chain Greaves
Rarity: Elite Basic Type: Mail
Durability 10 / 16
21 armor
+3 Dexterity
+5 Spirit
+5 Cold Resistance
+33% Find Extra Money
+53% armor
Requires 20 Strength
Requires armor skill: Mail
Sell value: 1SP 59CP
Retail value: 11SP 11CP

Tover's Boots
Buckskin Boots
Rarity: Set Basic Type: Leather
Durability 19 / 23
16 armor
+6 Armor
+8 Poison Resistance
+7 Light Intensity
+10% armor

Tover's Set: Tover's Dirk,
Tover's Vest, Tover's Leggings,
Tover's Boots, Tover's Bracers

With 3 items:
+5 Defense
+10% Magic Find Chance

With all 5 items:
+10 Defense
+20% Magic Find Chance

Requires level 7
Requires armor skill: Leather
Sell value: 83CP
Retail value: 4SP 19CP

Paragon
Ring
Rarity: Elite
+1 Dexterity
+3 Spirit
+3 Defense
+25% Find Extra Money
+8% Find Items Chance
Requires level 7
Sell value: 1SP 12CP
Retail value: 4SP 90CP

Ciglio's Silver Ring
Ring
Rarity: Set
+1 Dexterity
+2 Intelligence
+9 Magic Resistance
+9% Magic Find Chance

Ciglio's Set: Ciglio's Braided Belt,
Ciglio's Robe, Ciglio's Gold Ring,
Ciglio's Silver Ring, Ciglio's Charm

With 2 items:
+5 Intelligence

With all 5 items:
+10 Intelligence

Requires level 8
Sell value: 1SP 23CP
Retail value: 5SP 41CP

Accurate Jewelry
Rarity: Common
+10 Attack
Requires level 2
Sell value: 2CP
Retail value: 11CP

Sparkling Jewelry
Rarity: Common
+13 Light Intensity
Requires level 2
Sell value: 8CP
Retail value: 34CP

Axe (Ego)
Rarity: Rare Basic Type: Axe
Durability 14 / 28
5 to 21 Damage Speed 0.91
14.3 damage per second
Ego: +25% damage bonus
+35% Stunning Blow
+25% damage
+13% Weapon Speed
1.8% chance to cast level 1 Talk on successful hit
Requires 26 Strength
Requires 26 Dexterity
Requires weapon skill: Axe
Sell value: 1SP 44CP
Retail value: 11SP 85CP

Small Shield of Grit
Rarity: Common Basic Type: Shield
69 defense
+8 Max Stamina
Requires level 17
Requires skill: Shield
Sell value: 1SP 81CP
Retail value: 8SP 36CP


Fun stats

Kills: 2910
Deaths: 6
Kills Per Death: 485

Gold Found: 2GP 75SP 87CP
Time Played: 8h 12m 39s
Max Damage Dealt: 172
Max Damage Taken: 146
Max Damage Dealt At Once: 172
Max Health Healed: 502

Best Trap Disarmed: lvl 0

Strongest Monster Defeated: Katala (Lvl 14)
Toughest Battle Won: Hood (Lvl 11) at Lvl 12
Strongest Monster Killed By: Shadowtouch (Lvl 12)
Weakest Monster Killed By: Cave-in (Lvl 4)

Quests Solved: 106

Equipment Worth: 1GP 17SP 64CP
Inventory Worth: 3GP 37SP 58CP

Secrets Found: 16

Towns Saved: 5
Towns Abandoned: 6
Towns Lost: 0

Din's Curse / Soldak Entertainment (http://www.soldak.com/Dins-Curse/Overview.html)