View Full Version : Megatopic of Towns, Questing, and Dungeoneering

02-18-2010, 05:07 PM
Right then, same deal as the class/skills topic, this one is aimed at Dungeon, Town and Quest related stuff. As such...it'll be all over the place and I already know some good ideas have been thrown out there and somewhat implemented. Still, more the merrier as these constitute a tremendous bulk of the game's appeal and outright gameplay(environ).

-Defensive Totems in town? Some so far, definitely included the entire lot of them that are applicable.
-Avenge/death of Monster quests? Should not be possible to "fail"...as I did one time because it managed to form a posse of Uniques---whom I then all
killed in short order.
-If you have the Disarm skill(especially), or have had one effect you prior, ALL traps should be Identified via Tooltip when mousing over. It is a bit much to contend with memorizing arcane symbols.
-Radial spells/others probably really shouldn't be able to go through walls when all is said and done....especially since the enemies will always ultimately "win" such a contest as several casters will prevail over your 1. Destroyable walls would be another matter though...and interesting!
-LIQUIDS: Barrel/Jar/whatever liquid spills of oils and such should cover MUCH more surface area....as anyone whom has ever seen a busted, full barrel can attest to. These hazards are ripe for tactical use on a more significant scale, not as much as if we could push or roll barrels around, but still! I'd also like to see more types, like ones filled with Shrapnel for a makeshift Caltrops effect if exploded, Monster-in-a-box situations, and some kinda freaky barrel town to confound and leave invaders awestruck.
-Let's have shafts weighted to only drop you down a single floor, but for the potential to be there to drop you to the deepest floor possible.
-To prevent/lessen cheap stair/shaft death traps, give a brief period of invulnerability upon arrival to either beat a hasty retreat or attempt to
briefly tip the odds back in your favor on the Surprised foes surrounding you. This worked well in the game ActionRoguelike Triangle Wizard to solve
this infuriating/classic Roguelike dilemma.
-NPC's killed in the dungeon should have drops...potentially opening up another risk/reward in terms of keeping vendors down there purposefully alive or not to avoid a Reputation hit but perhaps gain a very nice slate of drops from getting them killed.
-The Gambler needs quests...give him odd ones.
-Let's have Micro Towns where all available persons and such are viewable on the Mini-map at the start---thus no wandering while events tick town, town attacks happen---yet all the more vulnerable to town attacks if things get that out of hand. Micro Floors consisting of a Giant boss-type would also spice things up.
-All active quest givers need to have a crystal clear designator on the world map.
-If a town is short on something you happen to have in abundance, you should be able to reap the buy low/sell high rewards if you so choose prior to
alleviating the cause of the economic disturbance.
-Guarantee the Gambler to often have an example of all equipment types, with appropriate prices to bid for the likes of Jewelry. This allows for a
tempting and perhaps invaluable chance to get such harder to drop gear types for a hefty price and unknown, but one hopes worth it, quality.
-Add a Cursed goods vendor, give it a better odds of Spawn for Cursed characters---random smattering of weapons/armor with Cursed being the only consistent theme.
-Perhaps have most general enemies actually gain a level and all that brings drop and danger wise upon each kill or so they make...again allowing for certain strategic choices---especially for stealth and battlefield/enemy manipulation classes/skills.
-Perhaps have the Perception score give an inkling on what throwing a Switch might do in a matter comparable to the Trap Guesses on chests?
-Let's have switches do more(than I've yet seen), like perhaps flood a room/corridor with acid/oil/gas clouds etc, trigger a "shuriken trap" or other
sentry type spawn, create a chest, open up a pitfall on the spot,
-Let's have a World Modifier and/or Special dungeons where there are fewer enemies but all are Giants along with one with Swarms of enemies yet all are
-Perhaps beneficial "town machines" versus the enemy ones? Would also allow another enemy attack target aside from townspeople.
-Still like the idea of a separate shared stash for Hardcore and/or Cursed characters---it just feels right.
-Let's have extinguishing torches and whatnot affect a bonus to Stealth/Spot skills and other such matters.
-In case it wasn't a bug, have a tool tip for 'Armor recipes" and the like that says you must examine it in the presence of an expert or some such lest you risk losing it to "gibberish".
-Large pre-existing oil pools/rivers, acid, etc to liven up the dungeon layout without even destroying anything
-I've not happened to see it, but have injured townsfolk make use of Din's Altar in town to recover from damage saved thematic types like the Plague and so forth that needs Quests solved to get a handle on it.
-Give the Gambler the "ultimate" Gamble---expensive "bag" type with contents unknown. Maybe you desperately need stuff of any sort, or desperately need some kinda bag, it can happen for you with the right monetary lubricant.
-There should be no pre-requisite level on food and drink, maybe not on potions as well. Funny as it may be to think lvl X of experience is needed
before you die to a fish bone in the throat (unless that actually gets implemented...) it just doesn't make sense in the gameworld.
-Theme dungeons that have a standard/nifty shape like an X, a square where there is essentially no map to fill in, a giant rhombus, and so on. Everybody also loves Secret and Special levels, why not?
-Monster houses/super vaults ala the Mystery Dungeon series where you happen across a big room chock full of monsters asleep or otherwise unawares, full of treasure, and said monsters are likely be be out of depth and either of a themed or random type.
-Let's have some shallow dungeons around town/in people's houses---could just use the in-dungeon rope in a hole to clear out a townsperson's basement or, especially, every town where I see a graveyard I can't help but want for there to also be a (mini) crypt in the same spot.
-Perhaps give an EXP bonus for mapping out all/ninetysomething% of a floor comparable to the tiny bit you get for touching down on a deeper level. Could be another Quest type as well.
-Exp bonus at town exit if you activated all gates in the world?
-Activate orderly warp shuffling between the 4 quadrant town gates and the central gate, so as to allow better response to an attack at the random
-Acid rain a possibility for the Weather machines?
-How about a Wishing Well/Pool or Transformative one? A Higher coin for a random(sometimes good-great, other times not) something(possibly effect), or throw an item in to mutate the properties of it a single time. Obviously, this would open up some new quest possibilities as well. Could be especially
handy for Cursed characters depending.
-Let's have some Champion/Cursed etc Altar styled thing along for the ride to match the Totems and be more hardy/effective/introduce new mechanics. For example, a Cursed(or Valta aligned, you get the idea) Summon Monster Altar would Summon a monster----one strong and hostile to the Summoner. Could be great for drops or experience, could make a bad situation that much worse. Save it for later or risk it getting destroyed indirectly somehow? Lots can be done with twisting existing functions into variants and/or contradictions.
-In line with the above, expand the functionality pool of Evil Pools.
-Fallen Champions of Din should have some sort of special powers running the spectrum as well as good gear/drops.
-Speaking of quest types, here's some that would work within the existing framework:

Torch lighting and extinguishing as mentioned in another topic, substantial mapping alongside "scouting", Web/cave-in rubble/barrel/jar clearing,
support beam destruction(Perhaps the Gambler runs an extortion racket...), rewards of the statpoints/hp(mana)/skillpoint variety for especially tough ones, find "broken" equipment to recover for repairs, kill other (evil) God's champions for "real" bosses(perhaps have them posse up), ones that unlock
mini-bonus/side dungeons in that world, ones that have a bountiful potion/key/drink/food/sack reward, ones that grant temporary blessing-styled effects,
ones where you donate gold/consumables to some aim to succeed at it, "find" quests to lower the base cost of some item class/type as opposed to just ones that can lower it back down after an enemy action or some such, treasure map location in town with a risk of betrayer attack at the scene, ones that grant potion effects immediately, guaranteed 1+ set pieces reward from a specific set, defeat betrayer posse in town before they make it to gate/stairs with info/plans/etc, destroy weather/darkness/etc machine or opposing altar in town that betrayer posse constructed/guards in a house,
recover stolen vendor goods from betrayer(posse) so they can operate again, foil in-town abduction/killing of quest givers/vendors by betrayer(s),
intercept/find buried Weapons Cache intended for betrayer(s) aiming for a town raid with or without the help of monsters, (if possible) current weapon
gains one extra prefix or suffix as a reward(only viable one time for a given weapon), trainer situation where you can pay gold/fetch/treasure find for
an additional skill/stat point reward, ...

Moreso than the last one, probably, this one's a bit more fluid on the ideas and I strongly reckon more ideas/types will come to my mind as well as everybody else's around here. This is a decent start though. Next thing I'll try to get legible on here will be Item/Misc/Crazy thoughts...probably tomorrow...

02-18-2010, 05:23 PM
I am very upset that there is no chest monster in Din's Curse. I have greatly enjoyed being attacked by chests in any game that has featured them.

02-18-2010, 06:52 PM
-Large pre-existing oil pools/rivers, acid, etc to liven up the dungeon layout without even destroying anything

-Monster houses/super vaults ala the Mystery Dungeon series where you happen across a big room chock full of monsters asleep or otherwise unawares, full of treasure, and said monsters are likely be be out of depth and either of a themed or random type.

-Fallen Champions of Din should have some sort of special powers running the spectrum as well as good gear/drops.

These are three things I've been thinking myself. I'll expand upon them in in regards to what I thought would be interesting as well.

The rivers and pools idea is one I like a lot. If the rivers are shallow enough they could be crossed on foot and provide some safety against fire-based attacks while making you vulnerable to electrical attacks. Some creatures may not like to enter the water either, like the various Hounds. I think magma pools and rivers could be fun too, if only for the ambiance. Additionally, why not have pits and chasms to obstruct movement?

I'm also fond of monster lairs, ever since Angband. So tempting... so incredibly dangerous. If these were in the game I think there ought to be some warning of their existence on a given level. Running into one unawares can be quite fatal. At the very least I feel they should always be behind at least one hidden passage and shouldn't spawn in any dungeon below a certain level setting. On higher level settings, start introducing bigger, more dangerous lairs.

As far as Din's Cursed go, I feel that another who had been cursed by Din would likely be close to your power level, and well equipped to boot. It might be interesting to allow them the use of healing potions and give them access to several skills (if they don't already have them). Right now when I see one in the dungeon I just treat them like any other monster. They ought to pose a pretty serious threat, but prove quite rewarding when taken down.

02-18-2010, 08:13 PM
Changelings are kinda like Mimic's...but for the mobile. Snapping chests would surely be nice and open up increased treasure class mechanics----as would something like Cursed Chests. Would definitely fit another classic piece into the puzzle.

In terms of the super-vaults, outside of incorporating something like Angband's level feelings into the game, hiding them in hidden passages would work well as would generating them upon a sidequest related to it....perhaps one with a high Repuation reward yet no EXP nor Gold nor treasure quest reward as what you can manage with the horde/find should well handle that aspect of it---presuming you survive.

Pits and chasms could work so long as the AI plays along/no impossible to navigate areas generated, especially since it isn't like foes are immune to falling down a shaft as even Quest ones have done it before to my recollection.

02-19-2010, 09:36 AM
There are lairs.

02-22-2010, 02:42 PM
-Might as well remove the arbitrary Quest limits considering it just doesn't seem to mesh well considering you can already succeed at many quests you didn't even know about prior which seems to leave the only quests worth actively picking up are those that cause specific spawns that wouldn't manifest otherwise, like Monster parts, buried stuff, and so on.
-For the reputation level earnings, I'd like to see it move away from fixed rewards and instead offer up something absolutely random, but weighted towards the highest and craziest possibilities of the loot scale. In general, this is an event that a player will only manage to trigger a handful of times or so versus other things....so as it is a "big deal", the results might as well be random bordering on very high end. At the very least it should significantly dwarf the quality of mere "town saving" chests which can happen fairly quickly/nigh infinitely and in light of only being a single reward item for each Reputation level gained.