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Ikarius
02-23-2010, 04:23 PM
So I'm curious how frequently it's expected for us to succeed on quests.

I have yet to successfully complete a rescue- I'm 0/4; every time I get one, the NPC in question is surrounded by monsters, and as soon as the NPC is on-screen, the monsters activate and the NPC dies before I'm actually near the room.

I got a quest to avenge a death; I found the named monster, kill it, and within a few seconds I get a message saying that the turn-in NPC had attempted some collection quest and died, leaving me unable to turn in the completed quest.

So- what's the expected success/failure ratio on quests? I'm used to games where I can succeed on most quests, so far I'm about 50/50 or worse, in the very beginning levels.

Is this expected to be tuned?

viper34j
02-23-2010, 04:55 PM
I'd say 50/50 isn't that unusual for being new to the game. After a while that ratio will increase to closer to 80/20 in favor of completing them successfully.

A tip for the rescue quests, if you notice that a rescue npc is near, charge into the room and drop a piece of food on them. That allows them to survive much longer and has increased my likelyhood of saving the npc by a huge margin.

Ikarius
02-23-2010, 05:06 PM
Interesting technique on the rescue missions- I'll look into that, though all the failures I had so far, I wasn't even near a doorway leading to the "rescue" NPC- in all cases I was in a nearby hall or room without a direct route to the NPC.

viper34j
02-23-2010, 05:10 PM
You are playing on version 9.05 right? Since a few patches back when Shadow increased the npc health levels I haven't really had any issues with them dying before I can even get in sight of them.

Ikarius
02-23-2010, 05:14 PM
Yep, just downloaded and patched yesterday, and I verified the version # .905 at the bottom of the title screen. Note that I'm not rushing through the levels as I'm a low-lvl melee char.

Aganazer
02-23-2010, 05:14 PM
A tip for the rescue quests, if you notice that a rescue npc is near, charge into the room and drop a piece of food on them. That allows them to survive much longer and has increased my likelyhood of saving the npc by a huge margin.

Hehe! For some reason this makes me think of Popeye (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRRRK21igA8) and the effect of spinich.

Ikarius
02-24-2010, 04:13 AM
Bringing this back up- I wonder if there's something I'm missing here.

I'm on lvl 1 of the dungeon in a new town- I had 3 quests. One "kill named foozle" failed without ever having seen him, 2 were from the warmaster. I've mostly cleared the level, and I see a message that some monster has launched an attack on the town. I kill the monsters immediately around me- about 5 seconds, and run back to the gate- less than 20 seconds. Before getting to the gate, the warmaster (the guy who gave me BOTH the quests) has died, and immediately after I port into town a second town NPC has gone down.

Seriously? under 30 seconds to kill 2 of the town NPCs?

I go back down to the dungeon, kill a monster which completes a revenge quest, port back to town, and turn it in to a townperson, and immediately get a message that I failed a delivery quest which I never even saw offered by any of the NPCs.

I port back to level 1, get about halfway from the gate to the stairs to level 2, and get a message that I failed a quest which had been offered, but was at level 5 of the dungeon- some monster wanted to build a "darkness machine".


At this point, I've completed 1 quest, failed 3, and have 2 I cannot turn in because the quest giver is dead.

What I don't get is that these quests seem to be on timers, but there's no possibility I can get to many of them quickly enough.

Bad luck? Normal? Is this going to make life extremely difficult?

Shadow
02-24-2010, 09:01 AM
Just a quick note, eventually you will get a quest to get a new warmaster.

keith.lamothe
02-24-2010, 09:10 AM
Yea, you can get replacements, but in my case the quest to get a new warmaster was on the second-to-bottom floor of the dungeon, which I never got anywhere near before some monsters attacked the town and finished off the last main questgiver (apothecary) and ended the town in defeat for me.

Quite fun :)

Kruztee
02-24-2010, 09:28 AM
I'm with keith.lamothe on this one.

Losing towns can be exciting as well as disappointing, and if all quests were made 100% completable in every game, then it just wouldn't be much fun for me. The thrill of saving a town that is on the knife edge of disaster is one of the big drawcards of Din's Curse. I would say that if you're managing to turn in 60% of available quests, then you're doing better than I am. Even when losing towns, you're still getting experience and loot. Building a town back up after repeated attacks is a lot of fun. I don't know, I can see why some people might find failing quests a bit frustrating, but it keeps things edgy and to be honest can actually work in favour of the gameplay by upping the ante just when you might think that you've got everything under control. Sometimes when it's apparent that you won't have enough time to solve all available quests, you just have to prioritise and go for the ones that you perceive to pose the biggest danger to the town. Some towns are just doomed from the outset, and our hero is just a simple mortal, he can't work miracles. Just hoist that backpack over your shoulders and move onto the next town - it's not as if you're going to run out of them.
:D

keith.lamothe
02-24-2010, 09:44 AM
Yea, the idea that losing is even possible (beyond "you died, pick a save to load") is great.

And if Din really didn't want these towns to perish, he'd step in rather than entrusting the task to a semi-competent cursee ;)

viper34j
02-24-2010, 11:39 AM
At this point, I've completed 1 quest, failed 3, and have 2 I cannot turn in because the quest giver is dead.

What I don't get is that these quests seem to be on timers, but there's no possibility I can get to many of them quickly enough.

Bad luck? Normal? Is this going to make life extremely difficult?

Basically you just need to accept the fact that you cannot complete all quests. It just isn't possible.

This might be a design problem that Shadow needs to address. The fact that quests deep down "fail" doesn't really appear to be correct. These quest are actually just naturally progressing to their next tier of threat to the town. Just because a harsh notification tells you that you "FAILED!" to kill "Tor" because "Tor" built a Darkness Machine doesn't meant that you actually failed and you should feel ashamed. Instead you should note the fact that "Tor" is a powerful adversary and will need to be dealt with quickly.

Shadow, I think this next paragraph is of key importance
There are very few instances when I think it is appropriate for the game to give you the harsh "FAILURE!". Those include quests like rescues or a thief running off with stolen goods and such that actually have a hard ending. All others should be a more benign notification of the quests natural escalation.

Cadfan
02-24-2010, 12:27 PM
Right, a town in Din's Curse follows a sort of pattern.

1. You arrive. There are a number of problems.

2. You begin exploring and solving the ones most easily reached. Meanwhile, the problems deeper in the dungeon escalate because you can't possibly get to them in time.

3. You deal with the consequences of the escalating threats as you delve deeper into the dungeon.

4. You start finishing off the escalated threats, reducing the overall threat to the town and eventually saving it.

So you might show up and have, say, a town that needs certain supplies found on level 2 of the dungeon, and a monster on level 5 that's doing something sinister that you need to spy upon by finding secret plans.

You begin questing, and solve the supply issue on level 2. Meanwhile, the monster has completed his secret plans, and has built a recon totem to spy on the town and launch raids.

You adventure deeper into the dungeon, but have to run back home every so often when he uses his recon totem to launch raids.

Eventually you destroy the totem, and the attacks on the town slow down or stop. This gives you the time to destroy the monster himself.

Ikarius
02-24-2010, 02:44 PM
Okay, so progressing through this town, but I just had something very strange happen;
I successfully recruited a new warmaster, I was able to turn a couple quests into him, I went on diving through the dungeon. A couple town raids were launched, A few "townspeople" died, but not much else, and then the new warmaster simply up and disappeared. He's nowhere in town, and nowhere in the log did he get killed. I've got additional quests to turn in to the warmaster, but no NPC to turn them into.

Additional update- the disappearance of the second warmaster appears to have rendered the town non-completable. I've completed every available quest in the town, expored every level of the dungeon, but town is not "saved".

Shadow
02-24-2010, 03:05 PM
Did he get kidnapped?

Ikarius
02-24-2010, 03:08 PM
If he got kidnapped, there's no quests telling me to rescue him (no quests avail in town from any NPCs) and there was no text message indicating he got kidnapped.

I'm simply at a dead end at the moment- no warmaster, no quests, entire dungeon explored.

Shadow
02-24-2010, 03:25 PM
In that case he probably didn't get kidnapped. You could zip up your save games and I could look at it.

Ikarius
02-24-2010, 03:41 PM
I solved it on my own; I went down to lvl 8 of the dungeon, and started working my way backwards up through the dugeon. I found the warmaster hanging out on lvl 7 of the dungeon, with a "Rescue me" quest.

Do you want my save? I reviewed the log, and there's nothing in the log of him being kidnapped, or any other notification.

You might want to put some code in to insure if a Key NPC is kidnapped/whatever, someone who is still in town gives out the "rescue" quest for that NPC, or at the very least that a notification is logged.

Shadow
02-24-2010, 07:02 PM
Sure a save would be helpful. In general if he was kidnapped you would have gotten a message and one of the other quest givers would give you the quest. Since that didn't happen it sounds more like a bug.

FloodSpectre
02-25-2010, 08:18 PM
There's one type of quest I never seem able to complete, but fortunately they are always optional and no one else seems to complete them first, so no actual failures. Some townspeople offer the "find the fabled relic" quest, but I've never once actually found the needed item. Would it just be lying around? Is the quest bugged, and the item is failing to spawn?

Has anyone else completed one of these quests?

Ikarius
02-25-2010, 08:32 PM
I just had a "find the evil artifact" quest, scoured the heck out of the level, never found it.

Shortly afterwards, I got a "build a totem" quest, asked me to gather 11 gremlin tails. I cleared the whole level, only got 6, waited for respawns, got all the way to having collected 10 of em, when I got a message that a town NPC had gathered the the required tails and I failed the quest. BULL! That level was EMPTY! :p

incognoscente
02-26-2010, 12:04 AM
I have completed several Find the Relic quests. The only noteworthy thing about these successes is the relics spawned on levels I had previously cleared. I'm not sure I've had that quest type require me to progress further into the dungeon to complete.

The relics simply lie around on the ground like other 'gather the mcguffins' quest items, but I think their item description is "Artifact," not "Relic" like the quest name would imply.

timeh
02-26-2010, 09:33 AM
I have completed several Find the Relic quests. The only noteworthy thing about these successes is the relics spawned on levels I had previously cleared. I'm not sure I've had that quest type require me to progress further into the dungeon to complete.

The relics simply lie around on the ground like other 'gather the mcguffins' quest items, but I think their item description is "Artifact," not "Relic" like the quest name would imply.

i believe i've had one called "Necklace" in white text too