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View Full Version : Impressions, suggestions, complaints, and thanks!


dnuggs40
02-24-2010, 10:50 AM
Hello,

Just purchased the game a few nights ago and have played through a couple towns so far. I enjoyed what I have played so far, but there are some things I wanted to bring up (the game did tell me to :p ). I haven't read every thread here so sorry if any of this is already covered...

Complaints and General Comments

-Some animations look weird or are done poorly. The most noticeable instance (and the one that detracts from the game the most) is when you are on the move and use a skill. It looks like the character's run animation just freezes and the character floats forward. Also, some of the skill animation can look glitchy depending on situation. I haven't used many, but Zeal for instance can sometimes glitch halfway through the animation and stutter.

-Sounds for some skills can be very repetitive. Not sure why this is...many games in the genre you use the same skills over and over. But for some reason in Din's it's noticeable. Not sure if it's the particular skill in question, the quality of the sound effect, or maybe other games slightly alter the sound and rotate the effect...but in Din's it seems different.

-Skills, and I have not used many so keep that in mind, and their effect is a mixed bag. Overall there's a nice amount of them and a nice mix of different kinds, but from what I have seen the graphical effect leave a lot to be desired. Zeal is one that I just stopped using all together becuase not only is the effect unimpressive, but it wasn't that effect either. I took Riposte instead and the effect, sounds, and overall feel is much more enjoyable and satisfying. One of the skills that sounded way too repetitive (explained above) was Lightning Blast (so you have an example).

-Classes are really nice, I like how the skill trees are laid out too and their diversity. But my impression is there is a bit of a unbalance between class types. I thought mages seemed to scale a lot better and melee, while easy at first, started lacking around level 10 or so. Again, I am still new at the game so this could be totally off.

-Interface is done pretty well...you guys have a lot of information going on in the game and for the most part it's well organized. Something is weird with the readability of it though...maybe it's the low rez font (or weird font) or with the graphics around the menus, but I find it a tad difficult to easily read the information in the menus. In games like Titan Quest I don't have this problem so I think it has to do with the font.

Also, there's a weird mechanic in the skill menus where you can drag and drop the images for passive skills...am I missing something I can do with these, or is this just something unintended? Shouldn't only active castable/usable skills be able to be dragged to the skill bar?

-Loved the fact towns can be attacked by special mobs, but have a tiny complaint. It's hard to tell where the attack is taking place in town especially if they are off in some corner and in a house or something. Maybe a 'ping' on the mini-map or something to indicate the general direction? Not a big deal though...

-Minimap is good as far as what information it displays (discovered portals, chests, ect), but the way it updates movement is not that good. It looks jerky and it appears like the background map updates at a different rate than the blue/green dots do. So it looks almost like the dots are moving independently on the map. I hope I explained this ok...

-Pricing...this is kind of a sensitive issue...I don't want to tell anyone what their product is worth...especially a small(er) developer working on indie games like this. But...I purchased the game for $20 and so far I am satisfied with my purchase, however when I compare it to other recent games around the $20 price point it's hard to justify it. Torchlight for instance was $20 and the production values are just so much higher. Personally I have a lot of disposable income and I enjoy indie/unique games so the price in my mind is ok...but every person I have shown the game to commented on the price. And when I told them it could be $5-$10 higher on release they were really put off. I don't know your budget, or your expected sales so please just take this as a passing comment. I'm sure you know your consumer base pretty well by now so maybe this is the right price, but based on the reactions of people that are interested in the game, it may be a tad pricey.

Controls were pretty standard for the genre and responsive. As a melee class it was a bit "clicky" though as they don't have a lot of skills to deal with multiple enemies (in my hybrid classes case, none) so you have to attack each enemy individually. The vertical right skill bar is an awesome idea...but is there anyway to bind switching skills to the mouse wheel using a modifier key? If I could hold down the left shift and rotate the mouse wheel to change skills that would be awesome. I tried binding the "up" and "down" to the side buttons on my mouse but it didn't work that well.

OK! I think that's enough complaints for now, if I think of anything else I'll update this post.

To leave off on a positive note I really enjoyed my playtime so far with the Din's Curse. It has a real rogue-like feel to it...and the dynamic world is very nice. I enjoy how it's not just random maps, but random events like town attacks, wars between monsters on various levels, and all the cool things that can happen in the dungeon like rock falls and stuff. The sense of danger is very real in this game :cool:

viper34j
02-24-2010, 11:22 AM
-Pricing...this is kind of a sensitive issue...I don't want to tell anyone what their product is worth...especially a small(er) developer working on indie games like this. But...I purchased the game for $20 and so far I am satisfied with my purchase, however when I compare it to other recent games around the $20 price point it's hard to justify it. Torchlight for instance was $20 and the production values are just so much higher. Personally I have a lot of disposable income and I enjoy indie/unique games so the price in my mind is ok...but every person I have shown the game to commented on the price. And when I told them it could be $5-$10 higher on release they were really put off. I don't know your budget, or your expected sales so please just take this as a passing comment. I'm sure you know your consumer base pretty well by now so maybe this is the right price, but based on the reactions of people that are interested in the game, it may be a tad pricey.


I purchased Torchlight for $20 expecting a great bargain, but what I got was a very repetitive, unimagined action rpg that I didn't care to play after completing the short story line. While the production value was high (nice animations, skill effects, monster models, ect), the game was bland. Not to mention that it didn't have multiplayer (that alone makes Din's Curse worth about $10-$15 more to me).

I have owned Din's Curse for two weeks or so and I can easily say that it was a MUCH better buy. I've easily put around 40 hours on the game so far and I don't see myself slowing down in the near future.

Do I think a $30 price point is too high? I can honestly say that I do not. After playing the game for a few hours, I went back to the site and bought another copy for my wife (and I intend to buy another copy before too long for a gift).

dnuggs40
02-24-2010, 11:38 AM
I don't agree with your analysis of Torchlight...well not in whole. I agree the game is somewhat repetitive and I don't think it's the best game in the genre or anything. But the game is very well made, has a lot of content for the price, and has some really nice things like the item system. And of course, it looks and plays wonderful for such a low budget game.

And I am glad you are enjoying Din's Curse so much...there's a lot to appreciate. But I showed the game to a bunch of people who are all interested in games like this and they were all surprised at the price...especially when I told them it could be as high as $30 after release. They were all put off to the point where I think none of them would purchase the game...unless somewhere down the road the price was reduced.

Then again maybe none of them would purchase the game anyways, and maybe the developer of Din's Curse knows his customer base very well. I was just bringing up a observation from prospective customers outside of people already familiar with the game.

viper34j
02-24-2010, 11:58 AM
I agree the game [Torchlight] is somewhat repetitive and I don't think it's the best game in the genre or anything. But the game is very well made, has a lot of content for the price, and has some really nice things like the item system.

So you base the value of a game more on how good it looks and how many shiny things are packed into it opposed to its actual gameplay and longevity?

... I accept your opinion grudgingly and acknowledge that this was just your passing observation



And of course, it [Torchlight] looks and plays wonderful for such a low budget game.

Torchlight is by no means a "low budget" game. It can hardly be considered an indie-game. Runic Games has two separate publishers that are funding development (NA Encore, Inc. and EU JoWooD Entertainment). Also, the single player only version of Torchlight that was released wasn't mean to actually profit. It was only meant as a proof-of-concept and a money buffer for the online game they are working on using the same engine/artwork.

dnuggs40
02-24-2010, 12:07 PM
So you base the value of a game more on how good it looks and how many shiny things are packed into it opposed to its actual gameplay and longevity?

No, I clearly laid out the reasons why I think it's a good value, and it's more than just how shiny it is.

Torchlight is by no means a "low budget" game. It can hardly be considered an indie-game. Runic Games has two separate publishers that are funding development (NA Encore, Inc. and EU JoWooD Entertainment). Also, the single player only version of Torchlight that was released wasn't mean to actually profit. It was only meant as a proof-of-concept and a money buffer for the online game they are working on using the same engine/artwork.

I understand Torchlight's development history, and the game certainly isn't as small and low budget as let's say Soldak...but it isn't a major game release from a big named studio. The game was put together in a year, had a fairly small development team (by todays standards), and had a low budget as well. So I say indie in that regard...whatever...I think think this is all besides the point anyways.

viper34j
02-24-2010, 12:13 PM
-Loved the fact towns can be attacked by special mobs, but have a tiny complaint. It's hard to tell where the attack is taking place in town especially if they are off in some corner and in a house or something. Maybe a 'ping' on the mini-map or something to indicate the general direction? Not a big deal though...

I like this idea. It can be very annoying to run off in one direction looking for the mob while he is chewing on my Steward on the other end. Maybe a quest for a recon totem could be added? The recon totem in the town would make it so that ALL entities appear on the map (enemies, vendors, quest givers, ect).

Aganazer
02-24-2010, 12:17 PM
But I showed the game to a bunch of people who are all interested in games like this and they were all surprised at the price...especially when I told them it could be as high as $30 after release.

I would guess that a 'bunch of people' are going to be much more influenced by graphic quality than they would by the more subtle dynamic events, character creation options, and hugely varied randomization that all give DC a few orders of magnitude more replayability than Torchlight. Those are aspects of the game that don't come across in a quick showing. First impressions will always favor the game with flashier graphics.

Like viper, I didn't see much value in replaying Torchlight. That, in my mind, combined with multiplayer puts both DC and the original D2 on a whole different level than Torchlight. I'd also like to point out that if you wanted to do coop LAN multiplayer with D2 or TQ that you would need to buy two copies. With Din's you can do LAN multiplayer with just one copy giving it a much higher value compared to similar games in the genre.

Aganazer
02-24-2010, 12:20 PM
I like this idea. It can be very annoying to run off in one direction looking for the mob while he is chewing on my Steward on the other end. Maybe a quest for a recon totem could be added? The recon totem in the town would make it so that ALL entities appear on the map (enemies, vendors, quest givers, ect).

And the same idea could be applied to finding teammates that are on the same map as you.

dnuggs40
02-24-2010, 12:24 PM
I would guess that a 'bunch of people' are going to be much more influenced by graphic quality than they would by the more subtle dynamic events, character creation options, and hugely varied randomization that all give DC a few orders of magnitude more replayability than Torchlight. Those are aspects of the game that don't come across in a quick showing. First impressions will always favor the game with flashier graphics.

Like viper, I didn't see much value in replaying Torchlight. That, in my mind, combined with multiplayer puts both DC and the original D2 on a whole different level than Torchlight. I'd also like to point out that if you wanted to do coop LAN multiplayer with D2 or TQ that you would need to buy two copies. With Din's you can do LAN multiplayer with just one copy giving it a much higher value compared to similar games in the genre.

No, most of these guys were people who don't mind playing games with dated graphics as long as there was some depth to the game.

Regarding TQ, gonna have to really disagree there. TQ is an amazing value...probably is the most content rich arpg out there...and the class system is second to none (sorry, my TQ fanboy is showing :p ).

As far as multiplay is concerned...that's only as good as it's community. When I browse TQ's server list 5 pages come back...I have looked twice on Din's Curse and didn't see a single game. I didn't really buy Din's for the MP though, as I didn't expect an obscure game like this to have much of an active MP community anyways. My guess is most MP for this game twill ake place over LAN or just friend scheduling a game over the forums or something.

Aganazer
02-24-2010, 12:37 PM
No, most of these guys were people who don't mind playing games with dated graphics as long as there was some depth to the game.

If that is the case then they will love DC.

And I wasn't saying TQ is a bad game. Its amazing, but if you want to do LAN coop (like I wanted to do with my wife) then that means buying two copies of the game which would have cost me nearly $100 compared to the $20 it cost me to do the same thing with DC. That is quite a significant factor to consider when judging the pricing and value.

viper34j
02-24-2010, 12:37 PM
Regarding TQ, gonna have to really disagree there. TQ is an amazing value...probably is the most content rich arpg out there...and the class system is second to none (sorry, my TQ fanboy is showing :p ).

I really enjoyed TQ as well. However the linear-ness of the game got to me eventually (it mostly manifested itself when I would reroll a character and have to replay the same content). But yeah, that game had sooo much freaking content it was ridiculous.



As far as multiplay is concerned...that's only as good as it's community. When I browse TQ's server list 5 pages come back...I have looked twice on Din's Curse and didn't see a single game. I didn't really buy Din's for the MP though, as I didn't expect an obscure game like this to have much of an active MP community anyways. My guess is most MP for this game twill ake place over LAN or just friend scheduling a game over the forums or something.

I'm not sure what the exact numbers are but it would be my guess that only a few hundred to maybe a thousand people have actually bought this game. Which makes since due to the low-key preorder beta thats currently going on. Once the game is officially released I hope to see more multiplayer servers up and running. I'm about to make a thread addressing that as well... *starts a new thread*

dnuggs40
02-24-2010, 12:39 PM
If that is the case then they will love DC.

And I wasn't saying TQ is a bad game. Its amazing, but if you want to do LAN coop (like I wanted to do with my wife) then that means buying two copies of the game which would have cost me nearly $100 compared to the $20 it cost me to do the same thing with DC. That is quite a significant factor to consider when judging the pricing and value.

Yeah value is something that varies person to person...for instance...my wife thinks gaming is for nerds :p I have nobody to play on LAN with anyways so that's not something I really consider a value to me. But for you, yeah, makes total sense.

Once the game is officially released I hope to see more multiplayer servers up and running.

Me too.

Arlow
02-25-2010, 01:08 PM
Wanted to post a thanks

I got the beta yesterday and can't stop playing, first a necromancer, now a priest.

It's been a long time since I didn't want to go to bed because of a game :)