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Cadfan
02-26-2010, 10:10 PM
A lot of the changes seem really useful. Dark elf spellcasters are still dangerous, but not unfair.

I fought a special with thorns, lightning imbue, and a few other powers. Either he one hit killed me repeatedly, or I one hit killed myself repeatedly because of the thorns power. I guess that's the way it goes.

I still get pixelated fire effects every other startup or so.

I know it sounds churlish to keep complaining about the fire elemental after all that's been done to improve him, but... here goes.

I'm at level 38. I get 9 skill points per level. To me, that means that my skills should be upgraded until they cost 9 points or so per rank. So I should have two ranks in Fire Elemental. Well, with one rank, the boosted damage doesn't matter. He can't hit anything. I let him flail away at a totem for a while to see how he'd do, and he did... maybe 5 damage? I see the +3 levels per rank, and that's great. Next level up I'll put a second point into him to get him on par with my other skills. That will make him level 9, fighting level 40 enemies. I don't think its going to help.

Anyways, my personal schedule for what's "worth it" in investing a skill is generally to buy into the skill about the point where I can afford one rank per level up, and to upgrade so that continues to be true. So an eight point skill is probably going to show up around level 30, and go up one rank every 5 levels. Sometimes, if a skill is frontloaded in some way, I'll save up for a rank in it early on (like Smoke Screen or Plate Armor), but for something that requires regular upgrades, this is what I do.

Maybe my way of looking at it is wrong, or maybe my understanding of his balance is wrong. If so, ignore me.

But look at the other ways of keeping him current. If your goal is to keep him a certain level below yours (lets say you decide he's ok if he's 10 levels behind you), you'd need to buy your first rank at level 16 and then upgrade him every 3 levels. By my current level of 38 you'd need to get him to level 27 (rounding to a multiple of 3), which would require 8 ranks, which would cost you 92 skill points. That's kind of a lot, and it gets worse as he gets more expensive faster than your skill points per level improve.

Or maybe you want to keep him a certain percentage of your level, lets say, 60%. You'd want to invest in him at level 9, and upgrade every 5 levels. At my current level of 38 you'd want him at level 24, which would cost you 77 skill points. This is a little more affordable, assuming that its ok for him to be a percentage, but its still more than any other skill you're likely to have by far. At my level, 17 seems reasonable, or maybe 27. 77 seems far too much.

For reference, at level 38 you have 214 skill points.

Right now the best use for him (at the rank I've got him) is to summon him, cast Fire Shield on him, and let him take aggro for an instant. He'll generally die on the first hit.

Oh, and one time I summoned him and he followed me around attacking me over and over. I don't know why. He never hit.

Cadfan
02-26-2010, 11:05 PM
I just saved a town by failing a delivery quest. Maybe not a bug, but anti climactic.

timeh
02-26-2010, 11:39 PM
this has been around forever, but Paladin's mail armour skill says your armour becomes more efficient per rank, but the skill caps at 1 rank. Plate armour doesn't have a cap at all

holding down a number to attack a locked door (with Zeal, at least) makes the locked door sound repeat really quickly

Cadfan
02-27-2010, 02:39 AM
I put a second point into Fire Elemental. He still can't hurt totems. The level deficit is just too great.

I am also getting the overlapping locked door sounds. I was not prior to this patch.

L337GTIMKV
02-27-2010, 03:28 AM
It seems to me that the easiest fix for the issue with underleveled pets, is to have them auto level with the player at like an 80% ratio.. (So if you were level 10, your pets would automatically be level 8) Plus bonus levels gained with extra ranks. In it's current form, as has been stated.. It's not really feasible to keep the pet's level up to appropriate/useful levels.. This way even if you put only one point into a pet skill.. it will still be somewhat viable, but certainly not good without more ranks.

Just a thought.

Caal
02-27-2010, 10:25 AM
I agree with you that summons should somehow be closer to the pc's level. I also agree with L337GTIMKV's comment on obelisk buffs - 20 seconds is too short to be of much use. I'd take the de-buffs being longer for the buffs being longer as well.

I've also had trouble with secret walls - with some wall types they are very easy to find, others it's virtually impossible. Either some additional distinction, or maybe a "magic mapping" type of potion might be nice.

I've used the fog of war reset to do new quests on previously searched levels, and it would be nice if the waygate locations didn't get lost when doing a reset.

Valgor
02-27-2010, 10:38 AM
Another minor observation :

Barrels and crates get shown along items on the ground and special objects (like Healthstones), but jars do not. That always struck me as a bit inconsistent.

Shadow
02-27-2010, 11:16 AM
Barrels and crates get shown along items on the ground and special objects (like Healthstones), but jars do not. That always struck me as a bit inconsistent.

Somethings do not get shown because they are meant to be more hidden. I'm not sure jars should qualify for that though.

Valgor
02-27-2010, 02:28 PM
By the way, why do already identified items don't show their proper names when dropped to the ground?

Shadow
02-27-2010, 03:42 PM
By the way, why do already identified items don't show their proper names when dropped to the ground?

Mostly because the client doesn't have enough information at the time to tell you.

Valgor
02-28-2010, 05:13 PM
I just had some fake (as in, they were really Changelings in disguise) Savage Clan Orks that had no textures on them.
Except for the gear they were wearing (helmet, shield and sword) they were completely black.

Also, Frenzy Targs appear only "half-frozen" when afflicted with the Frost debuff.

Mostly because the client doesn't have enough information at the time to tell you.

Will you/Can you change that eventually?

Cadfan
02-28-2010, 06:57 PM
For reference, I was level 45, had 438 max hp, and had armor sufficient to absorb about 80% of physical damage for the following.

1. I was one-shot killed from full health by an earthquake in a region with mostly level 47 monsters.

2. I was one shot killed from full health over and over by level 50 sentries.

Maybe I was biting off more than I could chew at that level, but... just seemed a little overdone.

Something strange is going on in Dire Realm lvl 1.
The apothecary needs more Bat Wings.
Dire Realm lvl 5 is now overrun with Sentries.
An altar has built to serve the god Mortus.
Jarost (a Savage Clan Orc) has been spotted in Dire Realm lvl 2.
Accepted Kill Jarost quest
Accepted Find plans quest
Ember was killed by a Spectre in Dire Realm lvl 1!
Dire Realm lvl 1 Gate activated!
Solved Find plans quest
We have disrupted plans to build an earthquake machine.
Accepted Gather 5 Bat Wings quest
Accepted Area overrun with Sentries quest
Accepted Destroy Mortus's altar quest
Ember was killed by a in Dire Realm lvl 1! (Note typo, this was an earthquake.)
Lucia (Weaponsmith) has arrived in town and will leave shortly.
Due to the influence of Mortus's Altar, an uprising of Sentries has started in Dire Realm lvl 6.
Jarost has sent the assassin Dire (a Lich) to town!
Jarost has sent a Shade scout to town.
Shade scout has been killed.
Dire has been killed.
Accepted Avenge the death of Cassa's mother quest
Solved Kill Dire quest
Solved Kill Shade scout quest
Accepted Sentries uprising quest
Solved Avenge the death of Seamus quest
Lucia (Weaponsmith) has left town.
Jarost has been killed.
Dire Realm lvl 2 Gate activated!
Solved Kill Jarost quest
Solved Avenge the death of Cassa's mother quest
Scorchblow (a Wrath) has been spotted in Dire Realm lvl 3.
Ember was killed by Scorchblow in Dire Realm lvl 3!
Treasure location marked on world map (Dire Realm lvl 3).
Accepted Find the buried treasure quest
Accepted Kill Scorchblow quest
Ember was killed by a Savage in Dire Realm lvl 3!
Ember was killed by Scorchblow in Dire Realm lvl 3!
Ember was killed by Scorchblow in Dire Realm lvl 3!
Ember was killed by Scorchblow in Dire Realm lvl 3!
Scorchblow has been killed.
Ember was killed by a Savage in Dire Realm lvl 3!
Dire Realm lvl 3 Gate activated!
Solved Kill Scorchblow quest
Ember was killed by a Wrath in Dire Realm lvl 3!
Solved Find the buried treasure quest
50SP 32CP stolen
51SP 6CP stolen
We are now at war with the Horrors.
Ember was killed by a Horror in Dire Realm lvl 4!
50SP 88CP stolen
Ember was killed by a Sentry in Dire Realm lvl 5!
Solved War with Horrors quest
Ember was killed by a Savage in Dire Realm lvl 5!
Ember was killed by a Sentry in Dire Realm lvl 5!
Found Lesser Armory
Ember was killed by a Sentry in Dire Realm lvl 5!
The town wants to build a Life Steal Obelisk.
Ember was killed by a Sentry in Dire Realm lvl 6!
Accepted Build a Life Steal Obelisk quest
We are now at war with the Sentries.
Ember was killed by a Sentry in Dire Realm lvl 6!
Mortus's Altar has been destroyed.
Dire Realm lvl 6 Gate activated!
Ember was killed by a Sentry in Dire Realm lvl 6!
Solved Destroy Mortus's altar quest
Solved Area overrun with Sentries quest
Solved Sentries uprising quest
Solved War with Sentries quest
Solved Gather 5 Bat Wings quest
Urdak (a Carnage Clan Orc Shaman) has been spotted in Dire Realm lvl 2.
Solved Avenge the death of Keely quest
Now level 46: +5 attribute points and +11 skill points!
Ember was killed by a Horror in Dire Realm lvl 2!
Accepted Kill Urdak quest
Urdak has been killed.
Solved Kill Urdak quest
Life Steal Obelisk added to town
Solved Build a Life Steal Obelisk quest
Reward chest (lvl 54) now available in town center!

One relatively short town, 16 deaths, most of which involved being hit only one or two times. Against enemies who have to hit more often, I protect myself and survive, but defending against two hit kills is tough, and defending against one hit kills is impossible.

Again... I was playing a harder town than recommended. So maybe this isn't really a problem. But between now and when I'm going to actually be at the level of these monsters, its not like my hit points will be doubling. I feel like it was maybe caused by the incredible damage that these guys do, instead of by me playing at higher levels.

I mean, doesn't this mean that the Sentries were attacking for about 2250 damage before armor was applied?

Cadfan
02-28-2010, 09:15 PM
When I can't use a skill because I'm out of mana, if I press the button, I get a rapid fire noise that I think is a single sound that's supposed to play once, but is repeating very fast.

Rockstronaut
02-28-2010, 09:19 PM
The sentry variations do BRUTAL damage. My level 20 priest was getting one shotted...I remember a level 19 champion doing 300 damage on a crit. You really have to soften them up at range so that they don't even get a chance to swing. I'd imagine they're quite frustrating if you're playing pure melee.

Kruztee
03-01-2010, 02:47 AM
If you're playing against mobs that are 5 levels above your character, then I don't think it's unintended that you're going to die a lot.

Cadfan
03-02-2010, 06:25 PM
I think I'm having some non-spawning named monsters. I've had two meeting quests that I was never able to find, and two quests to kill a monster that I was unable to find. I really looked, too. I can't prove I didn't just miss them, but I'm pretty sure.

Coreyh2
03-02-2010, 07:37 PM
I think I've had that problem in 9.05. I've run around a level clicking all the walls and still can't find a monster I'm suppose to kill for a quest. Even if they are actually there they might be a little too well hidden. :)

Shadow
03-02-2010, 07:59 PM
Does this happen on any particular dungeon/cave?

Cadfan
03-02-2010, 09:43 PM
It was a Torture Dungeon. In my case, it was at least partly my fault. I re-scoured level 1 of the dungeon, and discovered a secret room that contained two named monsters and an evil altar.

I never figured out why I didn't find the meetings on level 4, but I'm not going back to look again. I finally, finally beat that town. It kept generating new mandatory quests right as I was running towards the warmaster to complete the final quest in my list. In one case, I had to gather some blood marble for Lemongrad. I did so, and turned it in. It instantly told me that I had passed the quest, then that I had failed the quest, then that Lemongrad had betrayed us and needed killing. I think something pretty cool happened there story-wise (Lemongrad wanted the blood marble for some reason, but instead of helping the town with it, he accepted it, then ran off), but the messages didn't get that across well.

I had a secret open up onto a solid wall.

I saw a Frenzy Targ throw back his head, roar, then charge towards me shaking the ground. I hadn't seen that before. Maybe I've been killing them too quickly, or maybe they don't get scared fast enough.

Ring merchant, no rings.

Activated Defense Totems should have higher hit points, in my opinion. I'm ok with the ones in town as they are, but the ones in dungeons just die as soon as you activate them. They provoke all the monsters nearby, who then kill them.

I get exp for certain quests that I didn't complete. It seems like as long as someone kills a hunter monster, I get the exp, even if I'm not in the right level of the dungeon. This means that hunter quests usually end easily, since hunters run around and attack stuff until they get killed.

I got a quest from a named monster. I think it glitched though, because I was never able to find him again and the quest vanished from my quest list. Maybe something else happened, and I didn't notice exactly how it went down at the time.

I feel like quests from monsters are a prime opportunity for a non exp based reward. Like maybe a reduction in the spawn rate for the monster type you aided? Or maybe even something crazy, like all the monsters of that type on that level turning into blue friendlies who attack their enemy species? I expect the quests would need to be harder for that last option, but it would be cool.

I kind of want a quest that involves torches. Or at least some sort of lighting based interaction with the dungeon.

Cadfan
03-02-2010, 10:15 PM
You know what would be cool? A quest where a monster is heading towards the town, and you have to intercept him. Spawn the monster on level X, then have it walk to the stairs to level X-1. Wait a few seconds, then delete him and respawn him on level X-1 at the stairs from below, and repeat the process. If he gets to the town, he spawns next to the dungeon entrance.

Coreyh2
03-02-2010, 11:03 PM
I don't remember the dungeon. I wish there was a debug command I could use to check to see if its a bug or I'm just missing the enemy. Thats why I didn't mention it before.

Cadfan
03-03-2010, 02:53 AM
What is this "din's final quest" stuff? I'm level 50, and I don't think I've ever seen a "din's final quest."

timeh
03-03-2010, 05:38 AM
yeah, apparently you do it to complete a difficulty and unlock the next (according to a tooltip), but i've always gained enough levels to progress... does it actually exist? how do you get it?

Shadow
03-03-2010, 09:20 AM
yeah, apparently you do it to complete a difficulty and unlock the next (according to a tooltip), but i've always gained enough levels to progress... does it actually exist? how do you get it?

Din will hand it out on the start of the world if you have enough reputation. What happens I believe is everyone gets their level first and moves on before this happens.