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View Full Version : My Observations Post .906 (Some bugs)


L337GTIMKV
02-27-2010, 08:58 AM
First off I just have to say how impressed I am with Steven and his amazing ability to listen and respond to our concerns! It's a nice change to see responsive Dev's in this day and age. Go Soldak!

Well after messing around with .906 a bit, i've noticed a few things.. They are:

1) Thieves in town are broken.. They steal everything on the vendors with NO downtime between thefts, and are unstoppable because they aren't in one place long enough.. Something was definately borked in the patch.

2) As was stated by someone else.. Locked/stuck doors make a repeating locked door sound when trying to bash them. Kinda minor, but worth mentioning at any rate.

3) Berzerk skill is now totally broken.. I think you may have accidentally made it REDUCE damage by 50% rather than add 50%... I verified this because I did a crushing blow for 7 damage when my char sheet said I should do 7-15 on a normal hit. (With 7 obviously being roughly half normal damage, assuming you rounded down.) I never saw any larger than normal hits, and truth be told all my hits were very very small when I tried the skill.

3a) My suggestion for this skill would be to actually make it a 5 second long buff that adds it's damage to all your attacks during the 5 second period while also reducing your defense (Similar to Stealth) When I envision a person who's "berserk", I certainly imagine it to be a sustained emotional state, and not only lasting one "jab".. Also, as stated before you changed it. It's damage growth rate is FAR too slow, and in it's present form does not in any way shape or form merit an inherant defense penalty.

4) I've been noticing that stat bonuses on items are much less now.. This change is kinda odd and unneccessary to me, and I feel that the items need to be made MORE interesting and not less. My prior idea:

4a) Rather than have 2 item "tiers" (Purple/Blue) that are basically the same as the uniques with some random modifier on it... Make the Blue/Purple tier like a super rare (With no pre-set mods) but have it generate more mods on average, and make the mods like 33% stronger for the Purple color, and 50% stronger for the Blue tier. Also, if possible add some modifiers that only these higher tiers can "roll".. Maybe also remove some of the less beneficial mods for these tiers as well. (Light intensity as an example)

5) Thank you for implementing my HP bonus idea on the items, but I still think they are a bit too low in comparison with Vit bonuses.. I think they should be a bit higher than what the highest Vit bonus would give you at any given level range, as again.. You are not getting the other bonuses that the Vit bonus would confer. (Stamina/Regen)

5a) We are moving in the right direction with respect to the passive regen bonus, but it is sadly still too low. I also think that making it scale inherantly with level would be a good move to cope with the crazy mob scaling.

6) Proc observations... I have had procs work a bit better since I last mentioned it, but will still be monitoring this. (I really want procs to be awesome.. Can you tell?) I do still think the chances for them are a bit low. One observation that may of some interest.. When I reported that the Frost Nova defensive proc wasn't working, I had TWO items on that gave a chance for it go off.. I'm now wondering if having two nearly identical procs somehow breaks both of them?

7) Renegades need their town attack percentages looked at.. They send attacks a bit fast.. To the point at times that you can't even work your way down to kill them cuz you immediately get attacked by them again. I could just be getting really bad luck, but I doubt it.

8) New buff lengths are better, but not quite long enough still I don't think.

That is all for now, I will edit with more if needed.

Shadow
02-27-2010, 10:11 AM
1) Thieves in town are broken.. They steal everything on the vendors with NO downtime between thefts, and are unstoppable because they aren't in one place long enough.. Something was definately borked in the patch.

I left some debugging data in on accident. I guess for this patch there are going to be insanely good thieves.

Shadow
02-27-2010, 11:19 AM
3) Berzerk skill is now totally broken.. I think you may have accidentally made it REDUCE damage by 50% rather than add 50%... I verified this because I did a crushing blow for 7 damage when my char sheet said I should do 7-15 on a normal hit. (With 7 obviously being roughly half normal damage, assuming you rounded down.) I never saw any larger than normal hits, and truth be told all my hits were very very small when I tried the skill.

I think what you are seeing is that skills take into account your dps not your straight damage. So something like berserk can do less per hit than your normal hit because it is so much faster but it should be raising your dps quite a bit. I might need to lower the mana for berserk though.

L337GTIMKV
02-27-2010, 12:03 PM
Thanks for your quick replies Shadow.. You seriously rock.

I am fairly certain that prior to this patch, when I tried Berzerk, I was doing noticeably more damage than a normal swing.. This is no longer the case in my tests earlier today... Of course, I did only test at the very early stages of the game... Maybe I will get some more ranks and test further tomorrow.

That said though, I still think the skill is too weak to merit a penalty of any sort in it's present form.

Perhaps someone who has invested a ton of points into it can shed some light on this issue?

Thanks for the response!

Gutsman
02-27-2010, 01:05 PM
Anyone tried the Paladin skill Zeal? The animation is very buggy and seems to take too long. The skill lists 1.5 second time just like Perfect Strike from Weaponmaster, but it seems to take a lot longer. And a lot of the time my character just does some thing where he raises his hands in the air then the target takes damage.

I'd like to use this skill, but it doesn't work very well as it is.

Shadow
02-27-2010, 03:43 PM
That said though, I still think the skill is too weak to merit a penalty of any sort in it's present form.

That's a different story. :) I'll look at it.

Cadfan
02-27-2010, 05:14 PM
The improved attack time is worth quite a bit.

FloodSpectre
02-27-2010, 05:26 PM
I had two pairs of different Elite gloves in my stash before the patch. One pair was a yellow color, the other was Tore's Gloves. They both had the same icon, but different colors. Oddly enough, they're both now Tore's Gloves.

I'm also still getting slightly wounded NPCs upon creating a new town.

FloodSpectre
02-27-2010, 05:50 PM
I'm not sure if this is a bug or some other sort of strangeness, but I swear all the items I'm getting lately, as well as all the ones I have equipped, are all receiving a +3% to +10% bonus to their armor or damage, respectively.

Cadfan
02-27-2010, 06:28 PM
Some miscellaneous stuff:

What's the deal with the damage from Defenders and the other big golem guys? I absorb 75% of incoming damage right now, which is probably as good as mail is going to get me. I still regularly take hits from them for around 300 damage. I am at level 41, and have about 350 hit points. This implies that they are attacking me for over 1200 damage. Do they have a really high critical hit chance or something?

I also have damaged townspeople. I always have, I figured it was intentional.

I don't think that Spirit helps with resisting energy attacks. Here's some math on that...

I am at level 41. I have 9 points of resistance for poison, which means I resist just under 5% of poison damage. We'll call it 5. I got this from gear. If I wanted to get a 5% boost to all of my resistances from investing in Spirit, it would take me 90 character points. This is more than I have in any other ability score. If I invested this much I'd never be able to wear good armor or wield good weapons.

If I wanted to just get a 5% increase in hit points, which is mathematically the same except better because it applies to physical damage as well as energy attacks, I would need 17.5 hp. My character can get exactly this amount by investing 5 points in vitality. I think a generic character with no hp bonus could do it with 6.

Again, maybe I'm completely missing the point on Spirit, but if so I've been missing it since DoP.

Kruztee
02-27-2010, 08:45 PM
Again, maybe I'm completely missing the point on Spirit, but if so I've been missing it since DoP.

Spirit has always been a hideous waste of skill points. Even in DoP the only time I would EVER put points in was when building a caster type priest. In that case, I believe that points in spirit actually worked by increasing the mana (faith) pool even moreso than points in intellegence did.

Cadfan
02-27-2010, 11:33 PM
Oh, in addition to the pixelated fire, I still occasionally get a failed font. Its the font that the word "beta" is in on the main menu. Other fonts seem fine, though I've always restarted after seeing the white blocks instead of letters.

Cadfan
02-27-2010, 11:58 PM
When killed by falling rocks, I got a message that I was "killed by a in..." with nothing filled in between "a" and "in."

timeh
02-28-2010, 02:17 AM
Spirit has always been a hideous waste of skill points. Even in DoP the only time I would EVER put points in was when building a caster type priest. In that case, I believe that points in spirit actually worked by increasing the mana (faith) pool even moreso than points in intellegence did.

i've always liked Luck as a stat... little bit to everything

spirit is a waste of points

Cadfan
02-28-2010, 02:40 AM
Does anyone else have any idea what "normal" accuracy is for a melee character, particularly one based around the warrior specialties, or around the paladin?

I've got an accuracy of 89% versus equal level foes. I'm a weaponmaster, so I've got a lot of ranks in two skills that improve my accuracy. I've also made dexterity my highest stat, and I have some gear that adds a couple hundred to accuracy. Is 89% about what everyone else has? I'm having trouble affording more points for dexterity. I really wish I had better vitality, and my strength score is low enough that I occasionally find gear I can't wear (though not that often).

Cadfan
02-28-2010, 02:43 AM
Oh, a few more issues.

When I wrote above that I was killed by falling rocks, I guess I'm not 100% sure that's what killed me. I got killed by a cave-in later on, and it displayed correctly, so maybe some other effect did me in.

I had a "get important info from..." quest. When I got to the NPC and clicked on him, it offered me the option to deliver a package. I accepted, and the quest completed. So there's a dialogue issue there.

I had a "find the artifact" quest. I can't complete it. I've scoured the level multiple times, and even reset the fog of war to make sure I didn't miss anything. I've checked just about every wall for illusions, and found nothing.

I can't swear that's the game's fault, and maybe I really did just miss it, but I don't think so. For what its worth, this happened on a level I'd already cleared when the quest became available.

L337GTIMKV
02-28-2010, 03:20 AM
Just chiming in here to voice my agreement on the assessment that the Spirit stat needs MAJOR work.. It is a total waste at present.

Thanks for looking at Berzerk Shadow.. Much appreciated!

timeh
02-28-2010, 04:02 AM
i just noticed if you start a level 100 town on one toon, then continue an old town on another toon (one that can't make level 100 towns) and win the town, the new town difficulty stays on Legendary even though it should be locked

Shadow
02-28-2010, 10:28 AM
I'm not sure if this is a bug or some other sort of strangeness, but I swear all the items I'm getting lately, as well as all the ones I have equipped, are all receiving a +3% to +10% bonus to their armor or damage, respectively.

That's the new automatic boost for higher rarities stuff.

A lot of people mentioned spirit. The resistance bonus has never really meant to make spirit something a melee character would actually voluntarily put points into. The point has always been that if you get a spirit bonus on some item that it's not completely wasted on your melee character (similar to how you get some crit bonus on intelligence). Now having said that I'll look at and see if I feel it needs a boost.

timeh
02-28-2010, 10:47 AM
spirit on an item for any toon isn't a complete waste, but i wouldn't spend a stat point on it with ANY toon in its current form

FloodSpectre
02-28-2010, 11:56 AM
Does anyone else have any idea what "normal" accuracy is for a melee character, particularly one based around the warrior specialties, or around the paladin?

My two best melee characters are a pure Rogue with a 93% to hit without investing any points in the skill that gives +7% to your attack rating, and my Defender/Paladin has a mere 82% to hit.

timeh
02-28-2010, 01:39 PM
few things i've noticed while playing the level 60 toon in the level 100 map...

because it's so hard, i often need to move back into town to heal myself... doing it repeatedly causes the heal sound to play when i teleport some of the time (casting greater heal, not tried lesser)

upwards of 10% of the mobs drop plans/notes that contain gibberish

you can teleport while stunned/webbed (saved me countless times tho)

Cadfan
02-28-2010, 01:49 PM
What character classes are you playing that work well with a level 60 character playing at level 100? Obviously magician is part of it. Are you playing a straight wizard?

FloodSpectre
02-28-2010, 01:52 PM
Spiders still seem able to jump through closed doors. It's a little disconcerting, actually ;)

Death Knights seem a lot less durable than they should, and with such a huge shield you'd think they would be more capable of blocking than Dark Elf Mercenaries and Blademasters. The Elves seem quite good at it in fact, but the knights rarely block me.

I still don't seem to always gain xp when a fire I started kills a monster. It's also a bit odd how they appear to be attacking the fire itself.

Sometimes statues are also Champions. Is there more to statues that I'm not understanding?

EDIT: I just found a pair of Yuxi's Gloves. These were the other pair of gloves I mentioned before that had somehow become Tore's Gloves in my shared stash.

Cadfan
02-28-2010, 01:57 PM
I don't get statues either. They're stone versions of monsters that give you regular hp but don't do anything.

FloodSpectre
02-28-2010, 02:20 PM
One more very minor thing: If I have a weapon with a particle effect on it and I start a new town, the effect doesn't show up unless I un-equip the weapon and then re-equip.

cthonic
02-28-2010, 02:28 PM
Just chiming in to say Spirit is awful!

And don't set it up to be the Priest equivalent of Mage Intelligence, else you'll be going down a path where you'll have to set up Dexterity as the Rogue/Ranger equivalent of Strength for Melee.

FloodSpectre
02-28-2010, 04:43 PM
It happened again. I took a several hour break from Din's, came back to check something with one of my other characters, and the pair of Yuxi's Gloves in my shared stash have magically become Tore's Gloves again. Two different pairs of Elite quality Yuxi's Gloves each mutate into Elite Tore's Gloves...

Oh, and should shields be gaining extra block rate based on rarity now too? They aren't currently, but I was wondering if there were plans to do so. Also, it seems odd to me that shields give a defense bonus, but none of it counts toward the Block type of Defense.

Valgor
02-28-2010, 05:15 PM
I don't get statues either. They're stone versions of monsters that give you regular hp but don't do anything.

What I guess is that they're just variants of Gargoyles that don't come to life after you've hit them.

FloodSpectre
02-28-2010, 10:46 PM
Have another town I needed to abandon. I had a quest to kill Keil, a fairly tough orc down on level 5 of my dungeon. After killing him it announced that he was keeping a group of unique monsters in line and I had a new quest to kill this group. Here's the problem: Keil is a member of this group, and of course I can't kill him again. I checked the entirety of the floor and didn't find him again.

timeh
03-01-2010, 12:02 AM
What character classes are you playing that work well with a level 60 character playing at level 100? Obviously magician is part of it. Are you playing a straight wizard?

actually it's a straight priest

Cadfan
03-01-2010, 12:35 AM
What did you mean by teleport then?

timeh
03-01-2010, 01:08 AM
using the gate/entrance, not the magician spell teleport :D

step in, swing a few times, step back into town, heal up...

the issue is, sometimes the heal sound plays when i'm not actually healing. i think it's when i step through the exit back to town

Shadow
03-02-2010, 09:38 AM
Sometimes statues are also Champions. Is there more to statues that I'm not understanding?

Statues are basically either an inanimate statue or a gargoyle (a stone version of whatever monster).

FloodSpectre
03-02-2010, 08:30 PM
Dread Hunters killed by creatures raised by being killed by other undead creatures can themselves rise as "Undead Dread Hunters".

We get experience for enemies that die from fires we start now, but what about enemies killed by poisonous clouds we created? I struck a poison barrel to make it explode and gas a large group of enemies and I received no XP for it.

FloodSpectre
03-02-2010, 11:08 PM
I'm now in "Torment Tomb", and I've run across two odd champions. One, a Creeping Brood, didn't have that "champion aura" and its name wasn't in green, but it had major stoneskin (the one for 300%) and was a level 29 with 900+ HP, compared to less than 200 for other Creeping Broods of level 29.

Another was a Wampir who did show up as a champion, but had no bonus effects other than heightened HP and any other bonuses a champion normally receives that aren't typically listed with an icon.

I've posted screens below. In the one with the brood you can see the Stoneskin bonus icon underneath the hit point highlight text.

Oh, and I also noticed weather machines make it darker underground, or at least it seems that way each time one is built. Not sure if this is intentional.