PDA

View Full Version : Din beta patch 0.908


Shadow
03-06-2010, 06:19 PM
Beta patch 0.908 of Din's Curse is now available over on the Din's Curse patch page (http://www.soldak.com/Dins-Curse/Patches.html). Changes can be read here (http://www.soldak.com/Dins-Curse/Patches/Changes.html).

FloodSpectre
03-06-2010, 08:08 PM
I think there might be a problem with the Assassin's Critical Strike skill now. I score a critical hit and the attack becomes available to use, but it seems like the timeframe for using it has dropped dramatically. I'm not sure if this is happening with the other skills that use the same sort of mechanic as Critical Strike though,

Archon
03-06-2010, 08:18 PM
Reading the change notes and playing a quick game of .908 I really like the idea of giving the player the option of controlling the pace of their game. Very nice added feature along with the auto-coin pickup for single player mode.

While playing a quick game of of solo-multiplayer :p with my character and every time a monster would drop some coins on the floor the 'coin sound' would play a couple of times in quick succession. Maybe a bug that could be corrected for .909 ?

I do have a suggestion and I am not even sure if it could be implemented or even how to word the question correctly. Is it possible to keep the text at a 4:3 ratio when using a widescreen resolution since the text at any 4:3 resolution seems much sharper and widescreen seems to stretch the text making the text look dull no matter how high I set the resolution (my max is 1920x1200)?

Just like to add great job so far on the patches/feedback. Din's plays much better than the initial .900 release.

FloodSpectre
03-06-2010, 08:41 PM
I think I may have spoken too soon. Every time I come out of stealth or when the cooldown ends on Critical Strike, I think I just keep thinking the icon popping up means I can use it right now.

GeorgiaBoy
03-06-2010, 11:46 PM
Wow...a patch on a weekend. Thanks, Shadow! Any ideas how much longer the beta will be?

GB

PixelLord
03-07-2010, 01:04 AM
I'm running out of problems to comment on. :) Excellent, Shadow!

L337GTIMKV
03-07-2010, 02:51 AM
Regarding the set item bonuses being increased.. Unless you also increase the base bonuses as well (Dramatically...) This is likely a pointless change.

Uniques fall under this issue as well.. Please don't ignore them.

GeorgiaBoy
03-07-2010, 10:41 AM
Regarding the set item bonuses being increased.. Unless you also increase the base bonuses as well (Dramatically...) This is likely a pointless change.

Uniques fall under this issue as well.. Please don't ignore them.

Until Shadow addresses this, I modded systems.gdb number of modifiers for each item level. This may help you...

ItemNormalRandomMagicModifiers 0
ItemCommonRandomMagicModifiers 1
ItemUncommonRandomMagicModifiers 2
ItemRareRandomMagicModifiers 3
ItemVeryRareRandomMagicModifiers 4
ItemSetRandomMagicModifiers 0
ItemUniqueRandomMagicModifiers 3
ItemArtifactRandomMagicModifiers 4
ItemLegendaryRandomMagicModifiers 5

GB

Archon
03-07-2010, 10:57 AM
Another suggestion I would like to make for future versions of Din's Curse would be not to tag cave-ins as enemies in the game. In one of my recent games I met a armorsmith down in the dungeon yet I was unable to talk with him until I destroyed the cave-in beside him.

Cadfan
03-07-2010, 01:03 PM
Comments so far:

I completed a "scout level" quest, and was given a treasure location. I don't know why. If its part of the quest, that's cool, I guess? Although I don't get the logic. Maybe the text explained it and I didn't read it because I was familiar with those quests already?

I like the idea of difficult bosses, but I also like the idea of having some chance. If I just go up to them, get hit once and die, that's not as fun. I absorb over 90% of physical damage now, and I still get one-shotted.

In the Savage Lair, I got a secret door that opened up onto a solid wall.

I tried the fast paced on an equal level game. It was fine, but I'm not sure I could tell the difference very well.

Towns tend to end with a series of mandatory quests to get items for monoliths. This is a little anticlimactic. I think it happens because these generate on their own instead of as a result of other things, so once you've killed the major bosses and destroyed the major altars and gates, this is what pops up. Maybe these should be optional?

I haven't said this before, but I really like the way that monsters all spawn in the same place for an uprising. It makes it more of a *thing* than just a bunch of monsters in a region that you need to kill.

I just had a 14 level dungeon, but never went below level 7. This is pretty normal... I think it might be cooler if lengthier dungeons actually meant lengthier towns, with a need to actually explore deep down and to complete quests on lower levels. My ideal deep dungeon game would probably look like this- a boss is on level 13 or so. He's created a bunch of hazards for me on the top levels, including smaller bosses. I fight my way through that, and as I work my way down, more quests spawn on lower and lower levels, until I ultimately reach him, get the kill, and solve the town.

I still think it would be cool if there were a torch related quest.

Archon
03-07-2010, 01:40 PM
In the Savage Lair, I got a secret door that opened up onto a solid wall.


Yep, this has happened to me from time to time. Come to the end of a hallway and find a secret passage that leads to a solid wall.


I haven't said this before, but I really like the way that monsters all spawn in the same place for an uprising. It makes it more of a *thing* than just a bunch of monsters in a region that you need to kill.


I never noticed that until a few games ago where I had a bunch of animated dead in one little section of the dungeon and I agree it's a nice touch.


I just had a 14 level dungeon, but never went below level 7. This is pretty normal... I think it might be cooler if lengthier dungeons actually meant lengthier towns, with a need to actually explore deep down and to complete quests on lower levels. My ideal deep dungeon game would probably look like this- a boss is on level 13 or so. He's created a bunch of hazards for me on the top levels, including smaller bosses. I fight my way through that, and as I work my way down, more quests spawn on lower and lower levels, until I ultimately reach him, get the kill, and solve the town.


Good idea. I think having the major bosses or boss at the lowest points in the dungeon would make more sense from a quest structure standpoint. Also there could be a chance for a 'throne room' or 'lair' to be generated where the boss is located in the final level of the dungeon. The only thing I would want added if all levels are put to use would be a dungeon size modifier (suggested a while back on forums) at the beginning of world creation that gives me the option of the amount of floors I want in my dungeon or a toggle that gives me a rough estimate on the amount of floors I might encounter. (for example: deep dungeons toggle or something to that effect)

Cadfan
03-07-2010, 04:27 PM
Some miscellaneous:

This is going to annoy you, but the I found another flaw in the "shrink" animations. If you have stoneskin on, and you get hit by a shrink trap, the tiny version of you still has a regular sized helmet.

There are still double notifications on re-dead-un-dead townsfolk. Ie, they get killed by a zombie, you get a death notification. They rise and you kill them again, you get another death notification.

Scout quests seem to automatically trigger a "secret treasure" sequence when completed.

I probably should have asked this a while back, but what do gas leaks do? They don't poison the air. Do they do anything?

Do monsters pull explosion triggers? I thought they did, but I haven't seen it in ages.

In general, I'm having a good time. This probably has something to do with the particular monsters I'm fighting. The game plays very well with wargs, wampir, etc. I start to be miserable when protectors show up, or other monsters likely to kill me in one hit.

I'm not sure what the whole conversation is about item bonuses, but in general I'm finding that purple items make up a large portion of my gear. That could just be an idiosyncracy of my character at the moment, but I figured I'd share.

FloodSpectre
03-07-2010, 04:40 PM
Currently, 8 of my 15 equipped items are elite or better, or set items. I think that in general they're quite good, especially after the improved damage/armor percentage boosts based on rarity were implemented. I think some bonuses on certain unique items are a little odd though, seeming out of place at times. It might just be the random mods on Artifact-level items, or these might be the default bonuses. An example would be the Assassin's Belt. It gives +2 Spirit, but that doesn't really fit in with what you'd expect from an assassin item.

transigent8
03-07-2010, 05:22 PM
Regarding the set item bonuses being increased.. Unless you also increase the base bonuses as well (Dramatically...) This is likely a pointless change.

Uniques fall under this issue as well.. Please don't ignore them.

I concur with this observation. Sets and higher end items you might get as rewards or drops later don't stack up as well against the higher tier base items unless they also get the higher tier base upgrade as well. Greta's Coif might seem swell now but when you hit level 50 and normal greens are dropping that have equal or higher AC bonus it might not be so desireable.

Rockstronaut
03-07-2010, 09:01 PM
Miscellaneous bugs/typos:

- My char's mace: Skeleton Smasher, does +200% to Skeleton Bowmans, should be Bowmen. It also lists Skeletons twice at +200% damage.

- The Bone Warrior Warlords with Ice swords have "IceWeaponPowerUpName/IceWeaponPowerUpDesc" listed under their abilities.

- The Ice Elemental morale boost lists duration as 1.5 seconds, but it seems to last a lot longer. Also, I've never noticed Undead Herald's horn thing provide any morale effect.

- A champion poison totem had life steal (OH NOES!)

- Wisps were "charging" totems. A lot. They seem to prefer charging them to anything else.

- My char has Holy Fire level 6, and I've noticed it tends to do way below minimum damage periodically, even against creatures which likely don't have any fire resistance, like an ice elemental. This skill is underpowered in general IMHO...the damage only increases by min+2, max+6 per level. I only find it really useful for burning barrels and causing cave-ins.

- Dungeons with no world modifiers...not really a bug, just boring. Why not have a minimum number of modifiers.

L337GTIMKV
03-08-2010, 01:19 AM
You actually reminded me of something I was meaning to mention earlier Cadfan.. The explosive barrel damage doesn't appear to scale with level, as I often see it do like... 4 damage at level 20. =P

Regarding the gas vents that appear as the dungeon is taking structural damage.. My guess is that they are supposed to be a visual cue that cave-ins could be coming soon if you keep doing explosions etc.

I think it would be awesome if they had some tangible effect like releasing poison clouds and/or the poison "tiles" on the floor at random intervals or something similar.

In the case of the red vents, it could cause mini-volcano like "eruptions" center on or near the vent, and create the lava tiles as well.

It would be best if this stuff could happen regardless of whether the player is in the area or not so it doesn't feel contrived and/or "cheap".

Shadow
03-08-2010, 09:36 AM
Gas leaks should explode if they take any fire damage.

timeh
03-08-2010, 10:10 AM
You actually reminded me of something I was meaning to mention earlier Cadfan.. The explosive barrel damage doesn't appear to scale with level, as I often see it do like... 4 damage at level 20. =P

about 5-12 damage in level 100 maps, but you still don't want to get caught in it

i've lost 1000hp almost instantly to a group of burning barrels... if the damage is made to scale then the fire damage stacking should be toned down (burning object setting fire to other burning things, and possibly itself)

12 damage isn't a lot, but when it's on 5 barrels touching each other, it's insanely powerful... having the damage scale too much would be powerfully insane

Valgor
03-08-2010, 11:56 AM
You can abuse the new feature for splitting up stacked items to cheat any vendor that sells their items in stacks; like food, drinks or potions.
Just shift-click on the stack of items you desire in their inventory, and one of the items will be placed in your bags for free. You can do this until there's only one item left in the stack.

I suggest shift-clicking on a vendor's stack should buy the whole stack at once instead of "stealing" a single item from that stack.

viper34j
03-08-2010, 12:09 PM
I suggest shift-clicking on a vendor's stack should buy the whole stack at once instead of "stealing" a single item from that stack.

It seems like right-clicking should be changed to buy the entire stack while shift-click should take on the task of buying a single item off a stack. For consistencies sake anyway (I'm sure this will be annoying until we get used to it).

timeh
03-08-2010, 02:08 PM
You can abuse the new feature for splitting up stacked items to cheat any vendor that sells their items in stacks; like food, drinks or potions.
Just shift-click on the stack of items you desire in their inventory, and one of the items will be placed in your bags for free. You can do this until there's only one item left in the stack.

I suggest shift-clicking on a vendor's stack should buy the whole stack at once instead of "stealing" a single item from that stack.

at least buff potions are worth "buying" now :P

Cadfan
03-08-2010, 03:56 PM
You know what might be a cool quest? Some method of remotely activating a low level gate, giving you multiple approaches to the dungeon. It would be a neat thing to have on a larger dungeon because you could use it to slip past the various problems that the bosses had created in order to strike at them directly, then move back upwards to mop up.

Archon
03-08-2010, 05:48 PM
I like the idea sort of like finding "the alternate" gate in a secret area of dungeon level 3 to take you to dungeon level 8 or so on. Or you could have one of the floors from the town's main gate become active as one of the rewards from a quest giver (if the random floor is already active your character could just get the exp/gold).


levers
I don't know all the uses of levers in the game although I would like to see levers open up secret areas of the dungeon that can't be accessed by clicking on the walls or a lever opening a unbreakable/locked door on the dungeon level which would be kinda cool. Also how about giving space between the cause and effect, instead of always having the secret area open up beside the lever or a lever always near a unbreakable door. Sometimes the lever might be in one area of the dungeon level and the effect may be in another. Maybe give the player audio clues like a door creaking open or a secret passageway opening sound.

Just a quick edit:
The only problem I could foresee with secret areas / rooms only being accessed with a lever in the dungeon would be the off chance that the special lever would spawn in the room or secret area that it is meant to open...that would not be good. Would have to have some special exceptions upon floor creation.

Rockstronaut
03-08-2010, 07:21 PM
I like the idea sort of like finding "the alternate" gate in a secret area of dungeon level 3 to take you to dungeon level 8 or so on. Or you could have one of the floors from the town's main gate become active as one of the rewards from a quest giver (if the random floor is already active your character could just get the exp/gold).


One of the main issues I have with the current quest system is that while it excellently adds tension and motivation to hurry, you aren't really forced into making decisions. For instance, if you have a quest to stop the construction of a darkness machine 5 levels below where you've currently explored in the dungeon you currently have a "choice", either:

a) proceed systematically through the dungeon, slowly getting deeper with the knowledge that you'll probably not stop construction of the machine, or;

b) frantically plow through several levels constantly chugging potions while being swarmed by endless mobs and most likely dying resulting in another frantic descent to grab the lifestone etc. Good chance you won't make it in time anyway...

In other words not really a choice at all. Much like the "choice" to pay the outrageous ransom demand or risk the death of some random nobody towns-person and minor rep hit. Has anyone ever paid?

Anyway, new means to reach lower levels via some tradeoff would be great as it would allow you to solve those deep quests. Of course there needs to be an appropriate cost for doing so.

Another fun quest consequence idea would be the option to "spare" the life of a given quest monster in exchange for goodies or making monster's race friendly for that world or he'd become your follower or something. You'd of course take a rep hit.

Archon
03-08-2010, 07:53 PM
Another fun quest consequence idea would be the option to "spare" the life of a given quest monster in exchange for goodies or making monster's race friendly for that world or he'd become your follower or something. You'd of course take a rep hit.

I like the idea a lot, we already have ransom quests in the game where the player has to speak with the monster to get the choice dialogue of payment or fight so it would not be too much of a stretch to offer something like your suggesting. Maybe there could be a random chance at 20% health or lower a exclamation mark may appear above a creatures head with the option of sparing the life of your foe (or a chance you find them in the dungeon ready to negotiate). The creatures eligible for this type of behavior could be foes that would seem to be able to communicate with the player, at least in the most basic sense (orcs, skeletons, humans, torva, elves, sprites ..etc..) . Just a couple of quick thoughts.

Archon
03-08-2010, 08:02 PM
Bug:

current character: Defender/Sorcerer
Every time I use the block skill the game says "can't use yet" despite the fact that it seems to work as intended on the enemy.

Kruztee
03-08-2010, 08:31 PM
about 5-12 damage in level 100 maps, but you still don't want to get caught in it

i've lost 1000hp almost instantly to a group of burning barrels... if the damage is made to scale then the fire damage stacking should be toned down (burning object setting fire to other burning things, and possibly itself)

12 damage isn't a lot, but when it's on 5 barrels touching each other, it's insanely powerful... having the damage scale too much would be powerfully insane

I'm in agreement with timeh. Many of my chracters have burned to death almost istantly from fire damage when trying to navigate burning doors etc. I guess I'm just too impatient to let the flames die down, but yeah, fire damage hurts big time already.

Another fun quest consequence idea would be the option to "spare" the life of a given quest monster in exchange for goodies or making monster's race friendly for that world or he'd become your follower or something. You'd of course take a rep hit.

This is an awesome idea:cool:

TheRani
03-08-2010, 11:03 PM
I know what you mean about barrels. I was on a rescue mission, and the person I was supposed to rescue was inside a doorless room full of monsters with an entrance that was blocked off by a couple dozen barrels. I slew the monsters at range with spells. Now I needed to get to the person so I could actually rescue him. So I break a barrel. And they all go Boom. And the person dies. Fail. *sigh*

Cadfan
03-08-2010, 11:13 PM
I'd just like to reiterate what I said earlier about the way towns end, particularly on fast paced mode.

You start out with this flurry of quests, and you're completing them left and right, and its great. Then you get down to just one mandatory quest, probably one on a level you've already been through. You go to work on it, but it takes a little while because its inevitably a late-spawning quest to collect a bunch of materials for construction of something. And even worse, you've already cleared the level so the monsters have to respawn before you can kill them to collect your goods. While you're working on it, another quest is generated. And when you finish this one, and are almost done with that, you get one more quest. And since you've cut off the majority of the quests, you're not getting chained quests like monsters building machines or sending attacks. Its just uprisings, meetings, and mandatory obelisks.

FloodSpectre
03-08-2010, 11:28 PM
Bug:

current character: Defender/Sorcerer
Every time I use the block skill the game says "can't use yet" despite the fact that it seems to work as intended on the enemy.

I get this same bug with Concentration:Speed.

L337GTIMKV
03-09-2010, 02:51 AM
I think guys are misunderstanding what I was referring to with the barrels.. I wasn't talking about the fire damage from burning barrels at all, I was referring to the explosive barrels. (The ones you can blow up with levers..)

I think there are some bugs actually with fire in it's current form, as it seems like there are several "fires" on top of each other, and that is what is causing the ridiculous fire damage in clustered situations.

Kruztee
03-09-2010, 05:11 AM
I think there are some bugs actually with fire in it's current form, as it seems like there are several "fires" on top of each other, and that is what is causing the ridiculous fire damage in clustered situations.

Yeah, I think you're right. It would explain the rapid succession (much more than normal fire damage from one source) of red damage numbers that shoot out of your character all at once when you get caught in those clustered fire situations.

timeh
03-09-2010, 09:39 AM
Yeah, I think you're right. It would explain the rapid succession (much more than normal fire damage from one source) of red damage numbers that shoot out of your character all at once when you get caught in those clustered fire situations.

I mentioned it in my post in this thread regarding barrels, and I think it's been confirmed as an intended feature by Shadow somewhere else.

Regarding the Can't Use Yet skill bug, it happens with the mana/HP return spell in the bottom of Shaman tree too (can't remember the name offhand), and only started happening since the autoattack/melee move "stacking" bug was fixed (where you would swing both attacks at the same time, with only one animation)

viper34j
03-09-2010, 10:35 AM
referring to the fire barrel issue... I mentioned it in my post in this thread regarding barrels, and I think it's been confirmed as an intended feature by Shadow somewhere else.


I reported this about 5 patches ago, but Shadow said it was intentional. I disagree. I think the fundamental idea behind it is correct, but the implementation is wrong. Fire should spread, but I don't believe that multiple "burn" entities should exist in the same location because it causes a few issues.

First, insta-fire death can occur if enough fire is stack on top of itself. Second, a fire burning entity is created for each burn spread, this causes a meshing of burning sounds that is loud and annoying. And lastly, on the most recent patch, burning barrels brings the game to a crawl, we're talking like 2-3 seconds PER FRAME.

Shadow
03-09-2010, 10:50 AM
I reported this about 5 patches ago, but Shadow said it was intentional. I disagree. I think the fundamental idea behind it is correct, but the implementation is wrong. Fire should spread, but I don't believe that multiple "burn" entities should exist in the same location because it causes a few issues.

I think we actually agree. Overall I want it to work so the more fuel (health) of the object(s) that catch on fire, the stronger the overall fire. I'm not sure the balance is right yet though especially at higher levels.

The fire sound volume will be fixed in the next patch either way though.

Shadow
03-09-2010, 11:04 AM
One of the main issues I have with the current quest system is that while it excellently adds tension and motivation to hurry, you aren't really forced into making decisions. For instance, if you have a quest to stop the construction of a darkness machine 5 levels below where you've currently explored in the dungeon you currently have a "choice", either:

The choice really is usually something along the lines of do I solve the darkness machine quest or kill the boss right now?

I would like to add more choices to the game though especially choices that work differently.

Rockstronaut
03-09-2010, 11:24 AM
The choice really is usually something along the lines of do I solve the darkness machine quest or kill the boss right now?

I would like to add more choices to the game though especially choices that work differently.

Right now there's not much real choice, only consequences. Sometimes later in the town, when I've explored a good part of the dungeon, I'm given a quest that takes place on a level I've already explored and then I can choose whether or not to tackle it or focus on another more pressing quest deeper in the dungeon (like with your darkness machine example), but for the most part I end up doing the quests in order of depth as trying to "rush" down through levels generally ends up as an exercise in frustration.

As for more choices, even simple ones like having two town NPCs asking for the same ingredients, so you have to choose between building a poison totem or a life steal obelisk, would increase the feeling the PC is affecting the world. Or instead of obelisks, have them hire some monsters to guard the town like DoP. Even being able to pick between hiring a weaponsmith or armorsmith or whatever would be nice.

When two groups of monsters are at war, you could pick which side to support, getting concessions from one group of monsters in exchange for slaughtering a bunch of the others. Maybe they'd send a garrison to protect the town, only to betray you later.

viper34j
03-09-2010, 11:27 AM
When two groups of monsters are at war, you could pick which side to support, getting concessions from one group of monsters in exchange for slaughtering a bunch of the others. Maybe they'd send a garrison to protect the town, only to betray you later.

That is the best idea i've heard on these forums so far.

timeh
03-09-2010, 11:41 AM
I think of it behaving as fire does in real life.

If you set a barrel on fire, the fire will spread across the barrel. The fire doesn't spread instantly, it happens over time while the barrel is burning, consuming its fuel. If you touch the side of the barrel briefly you will be burnt a little bit. If you stand inside the barrel you will be burnt a lot.

sewave
03-09-2010, 03:18 PM
I don't know if it's asked before but, what about showing buffs remaining duration?

Aganazer
03-09-2010, 03:53 PM
I don't know if it's asked before but, what about showing buffs remaining duration?

It would be very useful.

Since we are tossing out ideas...

When you fail a quest, put the reason in the quest text. It already adds a description of why it was failed in the chat log, but its easy to miss. When I look at the quest list and see a failed quest I rarely know what caused it to fail.

Howler
03-09-2010, 06:35 PM
When you fail a quest, put the reason in the quest text. It already adds a description of why it was failed in the chat log, but its easy to miss. When I look at the quest list and see a failed quest I rarely know what caused it to fail.

+1 for this. It would be nice to have.

PixelLord
03-09-2010, 07:08 PM
Of corse, you could always scroll back through the chat log to see why you failed the quest, but it might be nice to have it in the quwst failed text.

Archon
03-09-2010, 10:09 PM
Just thought I would like to throw out a couple more suggestions to the post:

Groggy/Woozy Combat State: The player/foe gets smashed to hard he is not all there for a couple of seconds although not defenseless. He is able to move and attack the enemy although he suffers a to-hit penalty and is easier to hit. Effect would have short duration (my suggestion 3 to 5 seconds). Chance of altered state after critical or crushing blow.

Knockdown: Player/foe is knocked down after a crushing/critical attack (death animation works well for most creatures and player with the exception being the skeleton :D ) and is defenseless for a couple of seconds, basically a more dramatic version of stun. When back to his feet the player would suffer a groggy/woozy state. Small chance of knockdown after critical/crushing shot.

FloodSpectre
03-10-2010, 07:27 PM
I suspect Knockdown would require a decent amount of extra animation for every creature type to have a falling animation, a prone position, and an animation for getting back up, so I wouldn't bank on seeing it added any time soon. I would like to see Knockback though. Add it to some skills (Shield Bash) and to weapons, most likely hammers.

I've also been thinking about levers and additional things they might be able to do, but these types of effects should be rarer than normal lever abilities. We could have levers that reveal the stairs and gates on a level, ones that reveal all secrets on the level, open all doors, lock/unlock or trap/disarm all doors and chests on the level, or add a number of extra traps to the floors of the level, or disarm all or most of them.

Archon
03-10-2010, 07:39 PM
Your right, I knew that knockdown was kind of a long shot idea when I was writing it :D . The groggy / woozy (or any other name) combat effect is a bit more realistic.

I really like your idea of levers revealing locations on the map and "joker" levers which would cause random floor-wide effects. I remember DoomRL having some neat level-wide effects with levers back when I was heavily into the game and that type of chaos would fit nicely within Din's Curse.