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udm
04-04-2010, 05:43 AM
Just played around with the files in Din's for the first time today. I didn't quite like the Necro's skills, so I adjusted some settings, like monster levels. Well if anyone is playing a Necro, you might want to get this too, since it finally makes Skeletons and Skel Archers more powerful. It's just a very basic mod, but it definitely made playing a Necro more fun.

http://www.2shared.com/file/12427698/adddf5c4/udmnecro.html

Changes include:

- Skeletons and Skeleton Archers are more powerful now. They can finally kill something.
- Max count of Skeleton and SA increases by 1 every skill level. Also, now they start with higher levels. If you're level 10, with a skill level of 3, you can raise a max of 3, each at level 18. The level may seem very high, but believe me when I say it's necessary if you want them to kill something
- Raise Dead max count is now 2 per skill level.
- Some mana changes made. Raising skeletons uses the least mana. Raising Dead uses the most mana.

udm
04-05-2010, 02:31 AM
0 downloads? :(

Kruztee
04-05-2010, 09:26 AM
Yeah, I dunno. :confused:

I play an archer/necro and I'm not convinced that necro summons are that underpowered. He's at lvl 28 at the moment, but uses his summons as primarily a defensive meat shield that have some limited offensive capability. I think that they work quite well in stock v1.00

Perhaps at higher levels they might get less useful, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

graffen69
04-22-2010, 07:12 AM
For the love of god, make pets passable.
My conjurer aint that high yet (L17) and still i get crowded by my pets all the time. Brings a chill to my spine wondering how he will do at 50 with 10-15 (or even more) pets.

Shadow
04-22-2010, 09:53 AM
For the love of god, make pets passable.
My conjurer aint that high yet (L17) and still i get crowded by my pets all the time. Brings a chill to my spine wondering how he will do at 50 with 10-15 (or even more) pets.

Are you talking about the mod or the game in general? For the game proper, one of the beta patches made pets passable.

graffen69
04-22-2010, 10:16 AM
I tottally agree with the OP.
The Warlock & Necromancer trees are seriously underpowered. Im missing a group pet heal or at least a single pet heal. They cant use Health Stones nor do they use Dins Alter either by themselves or heal when i heal. I cant keep up the money cost of buying food for my pets, not even on normal level play. The instant Feed/Drink potion on Hencmen´s on the F1-F8 keys in ”Depths of Peril” would be a most welcomed addition for pet users in Din´s Curse but that still dosent solve the cost problem of food for your pets. I don´t care about skeletons and scree´s Health much, since ya can just keep on resummoning them, although the point of having any skellys or scree´s at all seems meaningless, they are THAT brittle. But my Furys should be able to take a better beating. The ”mighty” Death Lord himself can take a tiny beating, but his HP is closer to what i expected out of Skeletons (yes, skeletons – pet HP is laughable except for Raised Champs/Elites) especially since you cannot have more then 1 Death Lord. Also he should be much more powerful for that cost, his dps is weak, his aura stun is really good but the cost increase to raise his DPS, as well as armor, is not - not even by a long shot. The skill in istelf dosent raise his HP neither. The Demon Mastery is also really weak, you do better focusing on 1 or 2 particular summons. If Demon Mastery instead also had some serious HP boost and/or some nice HP reg affect then i definatly would take it. Another skill the Demon Tree could use is a Pet that heals other Pets and maybe buff them as well, and the Lich could be a Pet that can cast Lifesteal to keep himself and possibly ally Undeads alive.

I only fooled around a lill with the Sorcerer tree, but the low level skills didnt impress much. At this point the only viable Conjurer build seems to be - grab a Death Lord and Raise dead. Make sure you raise champion and elite deads. Later on i image putting all points into Lightning Svarm is a viable choice. But the sorcerer tree seems more at home for a Wizard. I´d prefer a Pet Buff Tree, which would add lots of skills that improve ALL pets, like Pet Auras (Speed, Att rate, Damage, Regen), Pet Heals (single and group ones), Pet HP, Pet Dmg, Pet Armor etc. One thing in particular the Conjurer with damaging spells need is some kind of Pet—aggro-managment. As of now, even the lowly Blight is a huge aggro stealer. A skill that would boost your pets aggro or lessen your own would be most useful.
Theres not many pets in any of the other class tress (as far as i can recall) but it would make things more interesting when players (or the developers) add mods with new classes with pets, or possibly pets to old trees as well. For instance a hunter with a pet dosent seem all to far fetched, the Wizard Mage casting buffs at his Fire Elemental, a druid with some wolfs or a bear able to cast damage shields and a shaman summoning Ghosts of ancient Heroes and using totems to heal em. Another option for the Sorcerer tree would be a Shadow Knight. Then you could actually play a Conjurer who could wield some armor and take a beating as well as dish out some melee dps. Ofc playing a Paladin/Shadow Knight hybrid would be somewhat contradicting, and im guessing thats a reason why trees which resemble opposite sides were avoided in the first place. But as somone else mentioned thats exactly why he plays a Paladin/Assassin.
(I know this section on skipping the sorc tree alltogether is a wild idea and im aiming it more for modders then developers. I just wish i could mod myself but hey, maybe this is as good a reason to start learning myself.)

Another thing that struck me as odd is that if you try raising an ”unraisable” corpse, one of your old pets will die. Making that check before letting go one of your old pets seems more logical. At the same token i´m missing an option to drop/destroy Raised mobs to make room for another. As of current rules (as far as i know), if i have no more room for another raised mob and raise a new dead mob, it automatiaclly removes my last raised mob. For example i have raise dead 5 wich yields me 2 raised mobs. If the first mob i raise i a ”normal” trash mob but the second an elite then i just have to wait out the first raised mob to die, else i will loose my elite mob if i raise another. This becomes a bigger issue if you have 2 elite mobs, which can take lots of beating, but the first mob is a ”wander” type, i.e. mostly wanders around not being very offensive. And the corpses of mobs vanish within seconds so you dont have a lot of time to wait around for yer ”crappy” pet to die.

All in all, i played a lot (i havent been this excited about a PC game since a friend of mine showed me Diablo 1 back in -97 which turned out to be the reason i baught my first PC) – both solid classes as well as hybrids – and the conjurer class has been the most frustrating class to play – i mean extremly so. It was my first toon i made in Din´s Curse since Necros from Diablo 2 and Eq1 were somewhat of my favorite classes. I have nearly given up playing the class alltogether many times and just recently at lvl 17 i can make just enough money to keep my elites and Champs alive. Maybe im doing something really wrong, but i have tried almost all skills in both the Warlock and the Necro trees. Maybe the conjurer will improve, maybe not. But from my point of view, he defenatily needs some adjustment - at least for those early levels.

//My 2 cents

PS. I did try to use the link you provided UDM, but its wants to install something for me to dl the zip file. As i have a bad experience from this im very reluctant to install anything unfamiliar. DS.

graffen69
04-22-2010, 10:44 AM
Are you talking about the mod or the game in general? For the game proper, one of the beta patches made pets passable.

Yes, the game in general. Hmm must be something weird on my puter then. After reading your respons i noticed i could pass pets just fine inside the town. But when in narrow caves i can´t pass my pets if they clogged the way. Also had some issues in a humongoues cave-in´s. I will try some more in different settings and post any changes or oddities.

Thx for the fast reply.

Cadfan
04-22-2010, 12:14 PM
You might want to be careful. Some summons are really weak, but Raise Dead seems fine since it automatically scales with the level of your enemies.

Magitek
04-22-2010, 12:54 PM
I thought the necro tree was one of the best trees in the game to be honest.. the summons are quite potent on my conjurer (archers are a joke however). I'm releasing a mod myself very shortly that brings all pets up to standard.. and a few other things.
I didn't touch ordinary skeletons though, resummoning them is part of the class really, and they seem to do sufficient damage (at my level.. 30)

graffen69
04-22-2010, 01:21 PM
Youre absolutely right Cadfan. I dont know how i could have missed that (prolly becuz i was to busy buying 1 skill point in every skill to try them all out) but when you mentioned it i first then realized that pets level raise the more points you put into them. Which all makes sense and also makes my post above regarding Conjurer balance issues completly invalid. (/selfbonk) :o

But a couple of questions arose playing my Conjurer:
Can you improve your pets resistances somehow? Or do they get a portion of your own resistances? I notice some of the raised ones have static resistance bonuses.
If you raise Parasite Demons, theire Larva spawns will attack you. Is this how it supposed to be?
Sometimes my Death Lord becomes a Champion? Is this random? Will it improve with higher levels? Can he become an Elite? Is this true for all class pets, for Conjurer pets only, for demons only or only the Death Lord?
Can the Death Lords area stun trigger cave in´s? Seems i keep on dying by cave in´s a lot when hes around.

Cadfan
04-22-2010, 01:28 PM
1. As far as I know, you cannot boost your pets resistances. I believe that you're instead supposed to weaken your foes with curses and such. You can also boost their health, which is functionally the same.
2. Death Lords trigger caveins. At least the real monster versions do, so I suspect that the summoned versions do as well.

udm
04-22-2010, 02:18 PM
PS. I did try to use the link you provided UDM, but its wants to install something for me to dl the zip file. As i have a bad experience from this im very reluctant to install anything unfamiliar. DS.

Odd. 2shared shouldn't be doing that. You should have been able to download it fine.

Oh well, this was more of an experiment/training session with the modding system than anything else lol. I wanted to be supreme overlord of the undead or something like that, just thought I'd share :D

Caal
04-22-2010, 07:31 PM
Can the Death Lords area stun trigger cave in´s? Seems i keep on dying by cave in´s a lot when hes around.

Yes they can, and often do, killing themselves or you in the process

graffen69
04-24-2010, 12:18 PM
Thx for the replys guys. As of now my Conjurer is my favorite toon :)

Are you talking about the mod or the game in general? For the game proper, one of the beta patches made pets passable.

My bad, wasnt the pets. In narrow tunnels i kept on targeting the pets instead of a free area in front of them. Same deal in the caved-in games. :o

Shadow
04-26-2010, 02:29 PM
YCan you improve your pets resistances somehow? Or do they get a portion of your own resistances? I notice some of the raised ones have static resistance bonuses.

In general, they will go up as their level goes up.

iligiann
05-02-2010, 10:56 PM
Having been playing with a conjurer up to 50lvl and I can add that skeletons and bowmen are ok with some investment in skill points. The whole necromancer philosophy seems to be quantity, not quality ;) If you want quality you can put some points in warlock's scree or fury. Screes are your hit and run pets and fury your slow hard hitter.

The summon that needs some tweaking is chaos lord. From the skill progression it seems like being the "tank" choice, but in reality it spends most of its time flexing. Maybe adding a skill like the gladiator's enrage (without the prevent effects ) during it's flexing animation would make it a viable tank.

Warlock
05-02-2010, 11:07 PM
Having been playing with a conjurer up to 50lvl and I can add that skeletons and bowmen are ok with some investment in skill points. The whole necromancer philosophy seems to be quantity, not quality ;) If you want quality you can put some points in warlock's scree or fury. Screes are your hit and run pets and fury your slow hard hitter.

The summon that needs some tweaking is chaos lord. From the skill progression it seems like being the "tank" choice, but in reality it spends most of its time flexing. Maybe adding a skill like the gladiator's enrage (without the prevent effects ) during it's flexing animation would make it a viable tank.

I actually had a Chaos Lord and was so unimpressed with him I went back to my Fury. The Chaos Lord spent so much time roaring that he was getting hi butt kicked within seconds of me summoning him. I was expecting him to be the most dangerous thing in the game. Please buff this guy and maybe lower the sound of his footsteps.

graffen69
05-03-2010, 10:27 AM
I actually had a Chaos Lord and was so unimpressed with him I went back to my Fury. The Chaos Lord spent so much time roaring that he was getting hi butt kicked within seconds of me summoning him. I was expecting him to be the most dangerous thing in the game. Please buff this guy and maybe lower the sound of his footsteps.

I agree and i did the exact same thing. The thing that bugged me the most with Chaos Lord was his constant Cave In´s which killed me to often to be effective in terms of gameplay. I say drop the cave in´s alltogether and beef this summon up quite a bit, at least Health-wise. Also, investing any more points in him beyond 1 seems so wasted. The minimal increase in dmg output isnt worth it, especially since he really dosent fight that much. One idea would be for the Death Lord to have an aura that boosts other Demons, and putting more points into the Death Lord improves the effectivness of the aura.
Mebbe even let him have 3 (or more) different type of auras, much like the Gladiator, but instead you have to choose which aura to boost up. Since Demon Lord is the most costly to increase in the Warlock tree, aura increase for each point should be taken into consideration as in given a large increase per point invested if it only effects one aura or a small increase if it effects all auras. Auras could be anything really, HP reg, Health, Armor Class, DPS output, Resistances Increase, Cold "Slowing" aura, Damage "Thorn" Shield, Move & Attack Speed etc. You get the picture. Whatever way used to increase the auras (i.e. single wise or all) a player could then switch them depending on what kind of mobs he´s fighting at any given moment.

As a side note (prolly belonging more to the "bugg threads") regarding fighting enemy Chaos Lords. I don´t know if this is the case for all classes or just the Conjurer, but none of my summoned Pets (Demons and raised) were fighting the Lord, they just kept wandering around. I don´t think it had anything with their stun effect to do and this has happend happend every time i face enemy Chaos Lords. One time i summoned up a new Fury (of 3 possible) and he started attacking the Chaos Lord. But thats the only time i´ve seen it happen. Worst case scenario was when i met a bunch of elite Chaos Lord at a time and since none of my pets were doing nutting but wandering around, i couldn´t get through the area to reach deeper in the dungeon so in the end i had to quit the game and create a new town.

DeathKnight1728
05-03-2010, 12:48 PM
I've played diablo 2 and even then, necromancer wasnt one of my favorite classes. Others all freaked out about them, and now they are freaking cause he's not in D3.

I've been more into the stealth em up classes that rely on finesse and wit like rogues, monks, and rangers.