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View Full Version : Concerning truly epic cave-ins


Valgor
04-19-2010, 10:45 AM
I don't know if it's supposed to be that way or if it's just the God of Collapsing Ceilings harbouring a grudge against me, but I'm encountering truly epic cave-ins at an alarming frequency -
with the resulting chunks of ceiling blocking up most corridors and even larger rooms on a given dungeon level, forcing me to dig my way through the rubble.
Depending on the scale of the disaster, this can get rather tiresome and annoying... not to mention the drops in framerate from all those rocky bits on screen at once.
Since Cave-ins are now saved in the current version of Din's Curse, I can't abuse Save and Exit to clear them all away instantly like I used to do when things got too cluttered in the past,
so I was thinking : Why not limit the maximum amount of Cave-ins present on a given level of the dungeon, automatically fading out the excess ones;
or limit the extent of consecutive Cave-ins to maybe the size of a screen.

Besides, I don't think Frost Novas should be able to ignite Gas Leaks...

sammage
04-19-2010, 05:08 PM
Just lost my amazing level 30 hardcore character to an epic cavein. Rocks covered the entire screen, even though i had started running from the site the moment it was triggered there was no possible way to escape. It covered every possible route and killed me in one hit, the only thing I could have done to save my character was use the town teleport stone. It felt like a really senseless way of losing the character, and as hilarious as the caveins are I would love for a way to disable them. On the whole cave-ins kill me way more than the monsters do!

Brysos
04-19-2010, 08:07 PM
This is actually why I have been reluctant to play HC. It seems like the epic cave-in is pretty much death beyond your control. I even have maxxed out teleport and get crushed occasionally by them.

elsol69
04-20-2010, 06:27 AM
I don't think it's you -- cause it happens to me enough to make the game literally unplayable.

I saw in one of the infos that spells can trigger cave-ins and I think that's what is killing me. I use fireball exclusively and I trigger cave-ins so often that I'm died 19 out of 20 times from a collapse. There's no warnings for cave-ins so I can't get out of the way like earthquakes -- and it happens WAY TOO much when I'm surrounding and chucking fireballs for all it's worth. My hitpoints are already reduced because I've got ten things trying to kill me but the cave-in is what does me.

That's the part where a game gets put away until there's a way to reduce the frequency of pointless deaths... if ten spiders gang up and kill me, fine, but if I survive the ten spiders only to have my last fireball kill me with a cave-in AND it happens on a predictable schedule then I have to call it 'done!'

Magitek
04-20-2010, 07:55 AM
I could be wrong, but isn't the origin of where the earthquake emits at the point fireballs are landing rather than ontop of you?
Frost nova does not generate earthquakes- you're probably hitting support beams.

Personally I don't have any real beef with earthquakes.. they simply serve to amuse me in coop most of the time. They are probably a bit too much if you're spamming fireball 24/7.

Valgor
04-20-2010, 08:59 AM
Frost Novas have a chance of triggering cave-ins, just like any other AoE spell or trap, and just as likely as any other skill or attack when they hit a steam vent or gas leak. I'm complaining about a cold-based attack being able to "ignite" unstable gas, that's all.

Shadow
04-20-2010, 10:09 AM
Frost Novas have a chance of triggering cave-ins, just like any other AoE spell or trap, and just as likely as any other skill or attack when they hit a steam vent or gas leak. I'm complaining about a cold-based attack being able to "ignite" unstable gas, that's all.

This shouldn't be true. Steam shouldn't be reacting to anything (directly at least) and gas should only react to fire. If you cast something that explodes, then the steam and gas might move to a worse state like cave ins. Frost novas don't do this though.

elsol69
04-20-2010, 04:53 PM
I could be wrong, but isn't the origin of where the earthquake emits at the point fireballs are landing rather than ontop of you?
Frost nova does not generate earthquakes- you're probably hitting support beams.

Personally I don't have any real beef with earthquakes.. they simply serve to amuse me in coop most of the time. They are probably a bit too much if you're spamming fireball 24/7.

It does... but the monsters like to swarm and I get swarmed in open areas because spiders jump and there's that weird 'rush' that some monsters do. So a pure 'no physical offense' blaster gets housed by cave-ins in my experience so far.

I'll try a pure lightning rod -- at this moment, I'm judging the lightning spells to be better one-on-one due to thunderbolt doing stun. I think fireball is probably the best I've seen coded in any game -- it just feels like what I imagined a fireball to do but the cave-ins come too often and do too much damage. If we could even dodge the damage, it would be a saving point.


EDITED TO ADD: I give up... no more fireballs for me -- I'll see if there's another mage blaster type I can play without this pain.

Jorlen
04-20-2010, 05:06 PM
Is there any way for a skill (passively) to reduce cave-ins or reduce its damage? Or is it just impossible and the only way is to avoid?

Heinosity
04-20-2010, 05:17 PM
Epic cave-ins are the reason I don't play HC, and even though this probably sounds absurd to alot of you, to me, a dungeon crawler without HC is a game left unplayed.

Valgor
04-20-2010, 08:32 PM
This shouldn't be true. Steam shouldn't be reacting to anything (directly at least) and gas should only react to fire.

I'm sorry, but it's true... just went and intentionally blasted a couple of gas leaks with Frost Novas to verify my claim. Every gas leak triggered a cave-in when hit,
sometimes even spawning another gas leak. Steam vents do seem to be mostly harmless, though.

Shadow
04-21-2010, 09:45 AM
I'm sorry, but it's true... just went and intentionally blasted a couple of gas leaks with Frost Novas to verify my claim. Every gas leak triggered a cave-in when hit,
sometimes even spawning another gas leak. Steam vents do seem to be mostly harmless, though.

I'll go look at it.

I'm also trying to think of a way to give you a slight warning about cave-ins.

Valgor
04-21-2010, 12:59 PM
[...] a slight warning about cave-ins.

How about a centered on-screen message like "Watch out!!", in a flashing red font?

Desticato
04-21-2010, 01:08 PM
If implemented, please consider making it a toggle under Game Options since I find that cave-ins are actually ideally designed in their current state. The area-of-impact notification is sufficient for me. Isn't there a rumbling sound that accompanies the ceiling collapsing, too?

Any more of a warning and I fear it'd lose the "Oh, crap" feel and find itself relegated to a minor inconvenience instead of the true danger that it now reflects.

Valgor
04-21-2010, 01:14 PM
Since there's probably only a split-second between the warning message and the actual cave-in, you'll still have plenty of reasons to go "Oh crap!" when it would pop up.

MasterMorality
04-21-2010, 07:47 PM
Yeah, there's definitely a rumble, which usually more than than enough time for me to start running. I agree, I think if a warning is implemented, it should be toggleable.

Kruztee
04-21-2010, 09:13 PM
Yep, add my vote to those of Desticato and MasterMorality. Cave-ins should be epic, and the way they can chain off each other is awesome. They are fine they way they are as far as I'm concerned. The original poster does bring a good point to the table about frame rates though. Is there any way to improve the FPS during and after a big cave-in? On my laptop especially, FPS grinds to a halt during and after big cave-ins even though the game runs quite fluidly normally. If it's a graphics thing, perhaps reducing the polygon count or something? (Hey, I dunno... I'm not a programmer :D)

It's not as if there are no other ways to be instantly killed in this game, and I like being kept on my toes. Cave-ins to stay as they are!

Valgor
04-22-2010, 08:36 AM
The original poster does bring a good point to the table about frame rates though.

That basically was my whole point... I'm not against cave-ins like they are right now, but I do wish there was an easy way to get rid of all the rubble after the entire ceiling has come crashing down.

An option to limit or even turn off cave-ins for hardcore play would be nice, though, especially when playing builds like elsol69's...

Kruztee
04-22-2010, 09:13 AM
I do wish there was an easy way to get rid of all the rubble after the entire ceiling has come crashing down.

Maybe reducing the HP of rubble to 1 or 2 might do the trick. You'd still have to hack your way through, which I like, but wouldn't have to spend too long clearing a path.

An option to limit or even turn off cave-ins for hardcore play would be nice, though, especially when playing builds like elsol69's...

But then there'd be virtually *no* downside to spamming AoE. Without cave-ins it would be too easy to cheese your way through the entire game. As it is, I think that AoE is a tad overpowered. Still options are always good - but I would never play without cave-ins.

Valgor
04-22-2010, 11:37 AM
Maybe reducing the HP of rubble to 1 or 2 might do the trick. You'd still have to hack your way through, which I like, but wouldn't have to spend too long clearing a path.

As I read this, there's this one weird thing about "killing" rubble that comes to my mind : If it takes at least two strikes to clear a pile of rocks, you'll be rewarded with an amount of experience equal to the amount you'd get from a monster of the same level as the the dungeon floor's level you're currently on, whereas if you manage to one-hit-kill the rocks, you'll get no experience at all.

fluffybot
04-27-2010, 05:56 PM
Not sure if I should post another thread for this, but it has a lot to do with deliberately causing and exploiting these cave-ins.

Has anyone else tried doing a maximum earthquake + nec build? It's actually extremely broken - not necessarily for survival purposes, but it's extremely easy to powerlevel thanks to the rubble giving XP. Granted, you die a lot, but I've got a character with this build and he's level 40-something after about two and a half hours of play time. As soon as you get the earthquake ability and a few points into earth mastery, just generate the highest possible level world on fast pace, enter the dungeon and spam earthquake over and over. Rinse and repeat to end up with a retarded amount of xp thanks to the cave-ins, and it seems like if you murder the hell out of monsters fast enough, they start spawning in at a simply retarded rate.

Obviously you'll spend most of your time earning half XP from getting brained by falling rocks all the time, but the rate at which you gain levels is pretty astounding. I imagine you could make your secondary whatever you want: necro just helps keep your mana up while you're doing this. Again, you're not going to end up winning the game like this, but it's a pretty exploit-y way of leveling.

Cadfan
04-27-2010, 06:15 PM
I've played a druid/trickster for a lot of levels using earthquake and nothing but as my primary spell. You're right. You kill a lot, particularly at low levels. But eventually everything starts getting pretty tough because caveins murder you. Constantly. Over and over and over.

I played until about level 25.

I might try again because Earthquake was a lot of fun, but this time I'd take something that could possibly survive caveins a little better. I think caveins are physical damage, so maybe defender? Or maybe straight Ranger, if the other ranger classes give enough +HP to make it worthwhile.

fluffybot
04-28-2010, 12:04 AM
Dying from cave-ins isn't really the issue, it's the fact that you can beef up your level at an incredible rate with minimal effort. When you hit 25, set it up to the next difficulty level and the max monster level, then head back down and do it again. You'll be getting ludicrous amounts of experience - somewhere around 2,500 if memory serves - per rock pile you clear.

Kruztee
04-28-2010, 05:49 AM
Why are we getting exp for clearing rubble anyway? Surely that's a bug right there.

Valgor
04-28-2010, 07:13 AM
It's probably because the game treats those piles as if they were monsters.

I've seen cave-ins getting promoted to Champion status after killing my character. Heck, even randomly occuring earthquakes get promotions sometimes...
If they don't already spawn as Champions or Elites.

Shadow
04-28-2010, 09:23 AM
Xp for cave-ins is a bug that will be fixed in version 1.001.