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Shadow
05-13-2010, 05:57 PM
Right now I think the next thing from Soldak is going to be an expansion pack for Din's Curse. I don't guarantee such a thing, but that's the most likely thing. Anyway, I'm trying to be more open and talk more about our games, so here's some of my thoughts so far. This has possible spoilers below and very possibility things that might never happen. :)

I really want the expansion pack to have a strong theme and would like to do something similar in future expansion packs if there are any. Themes for DC could revolve around a class, monster, a new mode of play, or probably many other things. I think if we did a bunch of expansion packs and tried to keep up the same kind of theme though, a class or mode theme might be hard to keep going.

So right now I'm thinking of doing a monster theme, specifically, Demons. The rough idea is that the various types of Demons have gotten tired of all of the Undead constantly attacking them. They are banding together, calling forth other Demon kind, and fighting back. Right now my tentative title is Din's Curse: Demon War.

I would like to add at least a few new demon types and various new items, modifiers, objects, and traps that fit the theme. I'm sure I'll add other things that are just nice improvements also.

I would also like to add a new class. Two good suggestions on our forums have been a Monk or Bard. Both would be pretty cool. Another interesting class could be something along the lines of Demon Hunter or Demon Knight since it would fit the theme quite a bit.

I know there's nothing substantial here yet, but like I said this is still very early. What are your thoughts? BTW, I have been reading all of the various suggestion and expansion threads. There have already been a lot of good suggestions so far.

DeathKnight1728
05-13-2010, 06:18 PM
That's cool. The demons have been kind of my worst enemy since i played the game.

What would a demon hunter or Knight have to offer other than just their specialization against a single enemy.

My only idea is a demon hunter would just be a bounty hunter mixed with a fighter right?

Heinosity
05-13-2010, 08:20 PM
I have an idea for the expansion...

What if you create a new class for the demon theme that actually IS a demon? The backstory for this class could roughly be something like; This type of demon which is more intelligent and independent, helps humanity saving towns and what not, but not because he loves them, lol. While most demons are concerning themselves with some kind of war with the undead, which is affecting humanity and humanity's domain, this particular type of demon (class name?) wants to push back / kill / punish undead AND other demons that lack it's vision because it realizes that humanity needs to be preserved for reasons that are beneficial for demonkind.

Humans are not all innocent and pleasant, they can be easily corrupted. Evil men can do alot of nasty, err evil things that actually please demonkind and work for them, spreading even more corruption to other humans. Because, when their time is up, and they pass from the physical world, their immortal souls become more fuel for the furnace, more points in the battle for souls.

Not that I want to drown a wonderful game like this in storyline, but you gotta have some explanation on why a demon would want to save the pitiful humans.

Just a thought I had. I dunno, maybe it sucks, but sounds cool at the moment, lol.

I would love to play a demon with hardass plate armor n glowy 2h swords / magic stuff anyway.

TheRani
05-13-2010, 09:55 PM
I don't think that playing as an actual demon character would make much sense in Din's Curse. Why would Din bother trying to turn a demon into a hero? Is a demon or demoness seriously expected to be sorry for being a horrible person their whole life?

I think humans trained to fight demons would make more sense in the expansion. Monks or Demon Hunters or something. They'd also make a lot more sense when Hybridized with things like Paladin or Healer or Necromancer.

I don't think the new class should have skills to invest points in that are only useful against demons, since we'd still have to be fighting a lot of other non-demonic things, like undead foes, insects, elementals, orcs, canines, etc. Any demon-specific skill or spell you added would be ignored in favor of other abilities that were useful against other enemies anyway. If you wanted to give them an automatic built-in passive (up there with the ability to wear leather armor and capes and getting mana regen from hitting things) that makes them automatically do something like 50% more damage against demonic foes, that would be cool though.

The Bard might fit better into an expansion that is focused around making towns even cooler and more interesting, and adds the henchman/mercenary idea that some people are really wanting. There could be a Guild master NPC who could hire out competent mercenaries who start at around your level and level up when you do. The mercenaries could be random hybrids who specialize in maybe 2 or 3 of their abilities. A guild master could be someone who starts out in a town, or could be hired via your Steward by killing things on a certain dungeon level. You could randomly come across them in dungeons and they could visit your town like a regular vendor. If your mercenary dies, you could hire someone else from the guild master to replace him or her. Or maybe Din would have the ability to raise them from the dead in exchange for a certain amount of your Reputation based on the level of the henchman (what would Din want with money?). That would also be a good expansion for adding item enchanting or runes or stuff along those lines.

graffen69
05-13-2010, 09:58 PM
I think it all sounds great Shadow.
A demon Hunter, that fights in mail or Plate using 2H-Swords and/or 2h-Maces and has skills related to each weapon that he can wield. For ex.

a) "Death by Sword" a 2H-Sword skill focused at taking out Demons by building up a frenzy. Grorr (the name of our proud Demon Hunter test subject) has 5 skill Ranks in ”Death by Sword". As long as Grorr keeps swinging at a Demon he gains one extra attack per point in ”Death by Sword”. As soon as any of the attacks hit a mob that is not a demon, the frenzy stops dead in track, and starts over again with the next first hit at a Demon.

b) ”Death by Mace" a 2H-Mace attack that yields a stun bonus versus all Demons and Demon types. The length of the stun is based on Damek´s (the name of our next not so proud Demon Hunter test subject) Skill Rank, but the chance for having an aoe (area of effect) stun onto other demons in the immediate area is based on Damek´s Spirit as is the # of Demons affected by it.

Hmm, how that sound? It´s 2.45 am here and im way to tired for creative ideas. I bet i laugh at this tomorrow.
Anyway, i´ll work on the bard this weekend and see what i come up with. I´ll post it on the forum next week (if i can wrap it up a bit) and we can go from there.
Peace out!

graffen69
05-13-2010, 10:12 PM
Graffen wrote "Death by Sword" a 2H-Sword skill focused at taking out Demons by building up a frenzy. Grorr (the name of our proud Demon Hunter test subject) has 5 skill Ranks in ”Death by Sword". As long as Grorr keeps swinging at a Demon he gains one extra attack per point in ”Death by Sword”. As soon as any of the attacks hit a mob that is not a demon, the frenzy stops dead in track, and starts over again with the next first hit at a Demon.

should say

As long as Grorr keeps swinging at a Demon he gets one extra attack added per round, up to his max, which in this case is 5. So if Grorr would be fighting a horde of Demons, after 5 rounds he would attack 6 times/round. His attacks are spread randomly at any mobs close enough to be hit by him and he can (still randomly) hit the same target several times. As soon as any of the attacks hit a mob that is not a demon, the frenzy stops dead in track, and starts over again with the next first hit at a Demon.

So much for the creative side at 2.45 am, ZZzzz. Right, off to sleep.
NN!

Heinosity
05-13-2010, 10:45 PM
I was thinking that with this particular class, the original story has taken a different turn somehow and the demon has come on his own free will for the reasons I stated in my last post.

I thought about this after I had posted, and it would be hard to make this fit in, especially with Din being present in the towns. While the humans could be easily fooled or manipulated, not knowing his true intentions, Din would certainly be aware of everything being a God.

Maybe the demon could make everyone believe he wants to be redeemed for some reason. Maybe it realizes the 'light' is stronger or something. Maybe being a demon is constant torment somehow and / or a losing battle.

I really dunno.

Those are some good ideas about the monks, bards, and demon hunters, but IMHO monks and bards are a little mundane and overdone, then again so are warriors, rogues, priests, rangers, and such and the game rocks anyway.

If anyone can help a demon class somehow make sense, by all means please do. Not that I'm an evil dude IRL, I just get tired of being forced to play on the side of good in RPG's...a little eeeviiilll is a fun change sometimes.

A Din's Curse expansion is a definite buy for me no matter what. :)

I just saw Shadow's post on the website and immediately thought DEMON CLASS!

I do really like the ideas about adding mercenaries, runes, and enchanting though, that would rule.

Either way, I'm sure you guys will come up with something cool. Carry on.

Roswitha
05-14-2010, 03:03 AM
I have an idea for the expansion...
Not that I want to drown a wonderful game like this in storyline, but you gotta have some explanation on why a demon would want to save the pitiful humans.


How about, the demons want to keep the humans alive because as long as they're alive, they're useful to the demons, and as soon as they're dead, they're candidates for the undead army, which the demons are fighting.

And Din puts up with it because he hates the undead worse than the demons (if we could just figure out the reason why).

Shadow
05-14-2010, 09:39 AM
I do have a couple full game ideas that are getting more and more likely where you would play evil characters. :)

Valgor
05-14-2010, 09:47 AM
"Valta's Curse : The sequel to Din's Curse" ?

GeorgiaBoy
05-14-2010, 04:49 PM
Right now I think the next thing from Soldak is going to be an expansion pack for Din's Curse. I don't guarantee such a thing, but that's the most likely thing. Anyway, I'm trying to be more open and talk more about our games, so here's some of my thoughts so far. This has possible spoilers below and very possibility things that might never happen. :)

I really want the expansion pack to have a strong theme and would like to do something similar in future expansion packs if there are any. Themes for DC could revolve around a class, monster, a new mode of play, or probably many other things. I think if we did a bunch of expansion packs and tried to keep up the same kind of theme though, a class or mode theme might be hard to keep going.

So right now I'm thinking of doing a monster theme, specifically, Demons. The rough idea is that the various types of Demons have gotten tired of all of the Undead constantly attacking them. They are banding together, calling forth other Demon kind, and fighting back. Right now my tentative title is Din's Curse: Demon War.

I would like to add at least a few new demon types and various new items, modifiers, objects, and traps that fit the theme. I'm sure I'll add other things that are just nice improvements also.

I would also like to add a new class. Two good suggestions on our forums have been a Monk or Bard. Both would be pretty cool. Another interesting class could be something along the lines of Demon Hunter or Demon Knight since it would fit the theme quite a bit.

I know there's nothing substantial here yet, but like I said this is still very early. What are your thoughts? BTW, I have been reading all of the various suggestion and expansion threads. There have already been a lot of good suggestions so far.

I guess a 'hell' tileset is looking good? Animated flames would look nice...

udm
05-14-2010, 04:55 PM
Since we have a Necromancer who's ultimate skill is to become a lich (which is an NPC by itself), what about a class that turns into a death knight (also an NPC by itself), rather than having a death knight class? Perhaps a class called "Fallen", which is pretty much like a weaponmaster in all basic skills (armour, weapon mastery etc), but whose attacks have enchantment bonuses, such as fire damage; then it's ultimate skill will be "Death Knight".

I also like the Monk and Bard classes. In addition, what about a Barbarian class? It is different from the Gladiator, in that while the Gladiator focuses on dealing loads of damage, the Barbarian balances out damage-dealing with speed. As such, they cannot wear anything more than leather armour. They have fantastic Defense, more so than any other class, but the downside to the Barbarian is that using any attack skills penalizes his Armour.

As for Modifiers, some ideas off the top of my head:

- Backstabbers: townspeople backstab one another, and are more likely to go renegade

- Pissed off demons: for some reason, Hell's just pissed off. Demons are more likely to attack the town, and raid the dungeon. This could be a really cool feature that adds to the non-linearity of the game. There could be a Superboss in the dungeon. Then, the demons are mad, and they raid the dungeon, killing the Superboss. Now demons have taken over the dungeon.

-----------------------

For traps, I really like the interactivity of the game environments. As mentioned before, setting a door on fire or throwing flaming oil on gas is really really cool. So I'd like to see more traps that are fun to play with.

- Hell cracks. These are cracks on the floor that lead to hell. If there is a big fight taking place at the spot where a hell crack is, there's a good chance that it will summon a ultimagigantenormous demon that kills everything there, including you and your enemies, because you guys woke him up while he's sleeping and he's pissed.

- Walls that can be knocked down to crush enemies on the other side. I got this idea from Diablo 3, but it'd be really cool. The walls can be like pillars, and placed anywhere in the room.

- Portal that leads to an unknown place in Hell. It's a completely separate dungeon, and the only way you can escape is to either use your Teleport Stone, die, or find the portal. The place is full of fires and is very dangerous, but the rewards are great. You may also find some normal monsters like a boss monster or a bunch of torvas who are lost in that area, and you have to escort them out. When you do, maybe they'll reward you, or maybe they'll put a knife in your back.

------------------------------

Random events that may occur:

- bunch of adventurers come to town to rest. These guys will help defend the town during an invasion.

getter77
05-14-2010, 05:07 PM
Well, I guess you could try something crazy like dual micro-expansions offering up both the Undead and Demon side of things. That way you could escalate both fronts over time, back and forth, via patching---then perhaps upset the tea table down the line with a 3rd faction, and so on.

New classes is always a good idea, more feed for the skillpool!

Eisenfaust86
05-14-2010, 07:43 PM
For a future expansion, why not consider implementing item-only skills as part of it? These skills are the kind not owned by any of the character classes in the game, yet commonly appear on equipment (or could be granted by certain shrines when used), granting actual skill bonuses to those skills (ie: +X to [INSERT SKILL NAME HERE], instead of the already existing +X% Chance to Cast [INSERT SKILL NAME HERE]).

Mischief Maker
05-15-2010, 03:19 PM
I must be honest. While I would welcome any expansion to this excellent game, I think a demon-centric monster pack would be shooting yourself in the foot. You see, there's this other company called Blizzard who has their own ongoing series of action RPGs that center completely around demons. From a marketing standpoint, trying to beat Blizzard at their own game is a recipe for failure, because their art department has a few more resources at their disposal than you.

If I were you, I would work on expansions that emphasize the areas where Din's Curse innovates beyond Blizzard's model. Here are a few ideas off the top of my head:

City Builder Expansion: We all love those defensive totem quests, and it's cool when the people build a statue to you, how about more? Why not add physical improvements to the town when you successfully complete the steward's rescue or supply gathering quests.

Maybe those Pixie tails the steward asked for were needed to finish building a defensive arrow tower with a watching archer on top? Maybe the woman you saved was an herbalist and when you rescue her, she creates a garden, improving the look of the town and reducing potion cost?

Maybe all the non-quest, non-vendor townspeople have a job which effects the services the town provides you, and you suffer some deleterious effect beyond reputation loss when they die (losing a farmer raises food prices, losing a scholar decreases the chances of vendors selling magic weapons, etc.)

Dark Alliances Expansion: The Player Character is an antihero with a shady past, why not give them some a chance to save the town by less-than-noble means?

Why not have certain members of different monster factions offer quests to the character with mutually exclusive victory conditions. Beyond money and experience, these quests would directly lead to effects like them starting a war with the dominant faction, or maybe a few minutes where monsters of that faction wont attack you, letting the PC get a little closer to the town quest objectives easier.

But also have negative consequences for the town from the PC helping these monster factions. Like getting a 5 min truce from the Orcs guarantees that by 2min 30 sec a named orc quest will appear and the PC has to decide between letting that named orc cause some (hopefully) small mischief to the town so the PC can reach the greater threat in peace, or breaking the truce early to finish off the named orc before if makes a bad situation worse?

I realize that gratuitous space battles has been doing quite well on a stream of art-asset expansions, but graphics are the main selling point of that game. (I'd say that game is one toe short of just being a screensaver). That ain't the case with Din's Curse. Play to your strengths.

At least that's my opinion.

graffen69
05-15-2010, 09:42 PM
City Builder Expansion: We all love those defensive totem quests, and it's cool when the people build a statue to you, how about more? Why not add physical improvements to the town when you successfully complete the steward's rescue or supply gathering quests.

Maybe those Pixie tails the steward asked for were needed to finish building a defensive arrow tower with a watching archer on top? Maybe the woman you saved was an herbalist and when you rescue her, she creates a garden, improving the look of the town and reducing potion cost?

Maybe all the non-quest, non-vendor townspeople have a job which effects the services the town provides you, and you suffer some deleterious effect beyond reputation loss when they die (losing a farmer raises food prices, losing a scholar decreases the chances of vendors selling magic weapons, etc.)

.

I like these ideas. I really would like to see some kind of bonus in the game, maybe a permanent defense tower or such, when redeeming yourself from Dins Curse. A chest of items is cool and all, but its the same thing you get for saving a town. Speaking of which; saving a town could yield some Reputation bonus. There was another thread about rep and exp bonus in the game and loosing/saving towns as well as gaining your freedom seems as good as any way to start with the exp/rep ideas.

udm
05-16-2010, 12:56 AM
I like the City Builder expansion idea too. Not trying to tell you how to run your business. It's just that IMO Mischief Maker has a point when he says that you'll be going up against Blizzard when it comes to demons. Personally, if I had to cast a vote, I'd choose a features expansion pack (new features like modifiers, the City Builder idea etc) over a contents expansion pack (new monsters to kill, new maps/tilesets etc) too. After all, I personally feel that Din's is about the innovative gameplay features than the content. But that's just me.

In any case though, I'll probably still end up buying any exppack :)

graffen69
05-16-2010, 03:42 AM
I must be honest. While I would welcome any expansion to this excellent game, I think a demon-centric monster pack would be shooting yourself in the foot. You see, there's this other company called Blizzard who has their own ongoing series of action RPGs that center completely around demons. From a marketing standpoint, trying to beat Blizzard at their own game is a recipe for failure, because their art department has a few more resources at their disposal than you.
.

I really disagree. I hardly think any DC players would swap to WoW becuz of the same theme. If anything, some WoW players might be curious becuz they see a similair theme in another fantasy game. I see your point though, more of the same thing isnt neccasarily a good thing, and if this was a multi milion dollar MMORPG project i would say the same thing. But an indie game developed by pure creativity isnt gonna loose tons of cash, nor players becuz they use the same theme as a world leading MMO. Its just a matter of quality over qunatity (and a very different market). I say Soldak; go with the flow - as in follow your instincts. But hey, maybe im dead wrong.

"I might not agree with your opinion, but i will die fighting your right to have one"

Shadow
05-16-2010, 11:27 AM
Blizzard, never heard of them. :)

Don't worry no matter the theme of the expansion we will still expand in the areas that make Din's Curse unique. The theme is more to give it a unifying flavor.

udm
05-16-2010, 02:56 PM
Blizzard, never heard of them. :)

Quick! Add this into the Random Quote of the Day list! :D

FloodSpectre
05-17-2010, 06:46 PM
I think my old quest idea of having to stop a horde of enemies ascending from the lowest level of the dungeon (by stairs) to the city for a raid would work pretty well with this theme. Now that they've invaded the dungeon, why not invade the surface?

There could also be new damage types added with the expansion, a dark/light or holy/unholy type. Demons would of course resist dark and be weaker to light, and this could be used to make the new demon hunting class more effective against them without necessarily making their skills useless or at least sub-par when used against other enemies. The light and dark elements would at their core function just like fire, cold, magic or lightning damage, but would just happen to be more effective against certain foes. Give the new class the ability to inflict one type and high resists against the other.

Of course, implementing that could be weird. Does Spirit affect these new elements? Do "resist all" type modifiers resist these too? Will you need to add resists/weakness to older monsters for the new damage types now?

DeathKnight1728
05-18-2010, 09:16 PM
I dont think the dark/light resistance would work well the game. It's hard enough getting resistance especially avoid the dreaded lightning, fire and cold. But you never know if it could just be adapted to this expansion pack. The question is if Shadow is going to be going all out with the demons (Not many other monster types). If that is the case then the good vs. evil thing should work.

GeorgiaBoy
05-19-2010, 01:03 AM
Not to get too far off track, but have you made a decision to go forward, Shadow?

GB

Shadow
05-19-2010, 09:51 AM
I don't know about final decisions, but I am moving forward with the expansion pack. I haven't made any real decisions on what's going to be in it yet though.

fab
05-21-2010, 08:11 AM
Hi Shadow & all,

I'm still playing a bit of Depths of Peril on my laptop and enjoy it very much.

I haven't played a lot of Din's Curse to be honest, enough to understand there was no more outdoor areas.

Do you think you could add these back in as part of an extension?

I feel that in DoP having both outdoor and dungeon areas created a rhythm and variety. The deeper (furthest from town) outdoor areas also had a lush and dense vegetation, and the sound effects really added atmosphere.

I understand perhaps they were too previsible? In the sense that they were square. However in some of these areas you had big boulders and other obstacles.

How about adding rivers or ponds? Or if you use the same random level logic, how about a marsh? There is water instead of walls, only monsters could crawl out of these from time to time.

Here's hoping for my character to get some suntan :D

Neophyte Coprolite
05-21-2010, 08:45 AM
:) I agree completely with you Fab. I play DoP more than I do DC. And for all the reasons you have given.I enjoy the randomness of play and the change in scenery - and getting a suntan is part of it!

Your other suggestions are right on. Marsh, rivers ponds.

However, this may too difficult for Shadow to program. (I have no idea, I'm not a programmer.) I would just like to have the outdoors for variety. I find it boring to continue to enter dungeons, ad infinitum...

We can only hope.

-------------------
Nae man can tether time or tide.
Robert Burns

ecliptic
05-21-2010, 04:32 PM
This probably amounts to a pipe dream, but it'd be amazing to have a hook exposed or a scripting language exposed so that you could make your own quest chains. I get the feeling it's probably hard coded or that no script is used though, but that would be fairly amazing to be able to make your own quest chains.

Outside would be interesting, but I'm not sure how it would fit in with the flow of the game. It might damage the focus.

Shadow
05-21-2010, 07:08 PM
This probably amounts to a pipe dream, but it'd be amazing to have a hook exposed or a scripting language exposed so that you could make your own quest chains. I get the feeling it's probably hard coded or that no script is used though, but that would be fairly amazing to be able to make your own quest chains.

The quest data is exposed in one of the database files and you can chain them together. You are limited to using only the quest types that exist though. You can change a bunch of the data, the text, the chaining, the consequences, the rewards, and things of that nature.

GeorgiaBoy
05-28-2010, 10:40 PM
Some ideas:

1) How about a juggernaut (huge ball) which rolls over you a la Indiana Jones.

2) A teeter-totter trap. The further you walk down a hallway, the greater chance the floor tilts into a lava pool which snuffs you out.

Also, how many additional modifiers were you thinking of adding. It would be cool if, with all of the expansion(s), Din's would have more modifiers than Diablo II!

GB