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View Full Version : Assassin/Hunter-Defense low...need expert advice


DeathKnight1728
05-20-2010, 09:17 PM
I have an assassin/hunter that has been going through the levels pretty fast. Up until 25, i didnt have a problem since it was a very offensive class. Now I've got high armor, insanely high attack, high critical hit but.......low defense. My chance to get hit is like 40%....yeah not very good. I cant quite seem to figure out how to get higher defense. Both of the classes i have dont have any skills that raise that and i pump up dex alot as it is. I'm starting to wonder if this class just wont work at all. The only thing that might work would be to find an armor that adds a lot of defense, but that is a longshot. Any ideas?

Cadfan
05-20-2010, 10:22 PM
Have you invested in Vitality? I find that this is far more important than I initially thought.

DeathKnight1728
05-20-2010, 10:42 PM
I have invested in it. The thing is, I've learned you need a good mixture of both. Vitality stops the hits, but defense prevents most from happening. They each are important. My guy can take the hits which is good, but sometimes it's better to be able to avoid getting hit. When I'm fighting against a behemoth that is 6 times my size with his cronies all smacking me, it's good to be able to dodge a good portion and let the health do the rest.

I just wish the hunter class had 1 dodge, evade, etc. skill so i wouldnt be totally screwed.

TheRani
05-20-2010, 11:59 PM
I can think of a quite nice build for an Assassin/Hunter, but it largely involves Serrated Arrows and Net trap, and the passives from Assassin (Precision, Deadly Aim, Spot Vulnerability). And tons of Dex.

What are you doing for crowd control? If you're mainly running into trouble when you get swarmed, something to get you unswarmed is what you need.

DeathKnight1728
05-21-2010, 07:11 PM
I use net trap and cold trap both in unison when i fight. If i can take out an enemy i will usually 1hit kill him. If not, i lure him or a group back into my traps where the amount of enemies is reduced due to net. Then i take them out with lethal blow and my dagger. I only do about 700-1000 damage on criticals, but it usually does the job. The only thing i need is some way to get a decent amount of defense. My armor is pretty good considering im a rogue type class (289). My health is like 460 and i am lvl 31 at the moment. The defense is really what kills me, even the low end monsters can hit me...those hits add up.

It just sucks that the hunter has no evade skills or what not, I'm not sure i'll last unless i add almost all of my points into net trap to increase the radius. But even that might not work.

I'm prally gonna have to start looking for an armor that adds like 200 to defense....

Kruztee
05-21-2010, 08:19 PM
Not to get too far off topic, but I was playing a defender/magician that popped out as a random hybrid a few games ago. The problem here was not defence. He was basically a massive plate mail clad tank that could teleport around at will. His inherent weakness was that he just couldn't kill stuff at his level once I got past about lvl 10. I'd just have to make lower difficulty games for him.

Play around with the hybrid system long enough, and you're bound to come across some combos that just don't feel as strong as others. I for one embrace this aspect of the game. In my opinion, not all skill trees are (nor should be) equal in value to the player in either in pure numerical values, or playstyle-wise.

In response to the original poster, there's not much you can do for an inherently weak defensive character apart from what you have done, and what others have suggested. Finding and using +DEX gear, and investing heavily in DEX is probably your best way to boost defence, but other ways of damage mitigation, like increasing HP by sticking points into VIT are just as useful in certain cases. I know when I play, I'll often use low armour value equipment that has good bonus effects on it rather than high armour value but otherwise worthless gear. Maybe that's something that you could adjust? Even in leather gear, a well armoured character should be able to mitigate around 40% physical damage just through that (though you may need to forgo things like resistances and other bonus attributes to get stuff with significantly higher armour value). Any character will struggle without some form of crowd control, even if it only allows time to get away from the swarm. Some hybrids just don't have this and the player has to adopt a more cautious approach. The best suggestion that I can make is just to generate towns of a difficulty level that is providing a good challenge for you, and so that you continue to enjoy the character. Once that ceases to be the case, retire him/her and roll up another!:D

TheRani
05-21-2010, 09:42 PM
I use net trap and cold trap both in unison when i fight. If i can take out an enemy i will usually 1hit kill him. If not, i lure him or a group back into my traps where the amount of enemies is reduced due to net. Then i take them out with lethal blow and my dagger. I only do about 700-1000 damage on criticals, but it usually does the job. The only thing i need is some way to get a decent amount of defense. My armor is pretty good considering im a rogue type class (289). My health is like 460 and i am lvl 31 at the moment. The defense is really what kills me, even the low end monsters can hit me...those hits add up.

It just sucks that the hunter has no evade skills or what not, I'm not sure i'll last unless i add almost all of my points into net trap to increase the radius. But even that might not work.

I'm prally gonna have to start looking for an armor that adds like 200 to defense....

You make a very good point. Assassins are pure offense and zero defense. Unlike the Tricksters and Thieves, they don't even get a dex bonus to defense in their built-in passives. Their ability to wear leather is the best defense they've got. They don't even get to wear capes!

The Hunter at least fares better. They can wear capes, and they get dex defense bonus thing (work that puppy! Drink dex potions! Put all points in dex!) that Thieves and Tricksters enjoy. They have nets, freezing traps, light touch (the monster that doesn't notice you isn't killing you, unless they happen to randomly start a cave-in or explosion), and Lure.

Hunters, not having a single Melee skill (unless you count their ability to wield daggers), are pretty much designed specifically for ranged attacking, and their defenses are designed to be of optimal benefit to a Ranged character.

Therein lies your trouble with this hybrid. The only class you have that can defend itself, has defenses that are designed around Ranged fighting.

Regarding Nets: Just as you can still beat up things that are right next to you when you're webbed, so can enemies. So as a melee type, you're Still getting beaten up by stuff in your net when you enter melee range. Also, ranged foes can still use their ranged attacks from within a net. Nets are fantastic for Ranged characters, since they can move out of melee range and shoot netted foes that can't hit them back, but not as much for a melee character, unless they want an opening to run away and heal.

Light Touch: This is handy for Ranged characters. The closer you are to an enemy, the easier it is for them to notice you. With this, you get to see them before they get to see you, so you can usually get off a few shots before the horde comes running. With a melee character, you have to get in their face to kill them, and they will absolutely see you and fight back, so it's kind of worthless.

Lure: Pretty decent, but heaven help you if you happen to need something to tank for you more often than once per minute. And even so, still much more handy for ranged characters. If it was freely re-castable like the Diablo II Amazon's decoy (or at least every few seconds, as opposed to a whole minute), it could actually become useful.

DeathKnight1728
05-21-2010, 11:41 PM
I know I wasnt really sure if this class would and it was an awkward mix since the hunter was meant for ranged. However, there are a lot of things that like you said...can help.

This class, and all thief-type classes are good at fighting one on one. Not as good as warriors are at many opponents. That is why my main downfall is large groups of enemies. I can kill 1 shot most of the time. That is where the net trap comes in handy. Even though I do get hit for the net trap, its worth it. The reason is that i get to lessen the numbers of the enemy. I generally start every large engagement with cold trap, then net trap. They are then slow and immobile. At which point i finish off those i can and at the same time, have a place to fall back to for the next group. Without a place to fall back on, i have nothing.

Because of that this class is very tricky to play and i highly doubt most people would have the patience. I am still figuring out the advanced way to get past certain things. Luckily i have light-touch, which saves my ass.

TheRani
05-22-2010, 02:06 AM
I know I wasnt really sure if this class would and it was an awkward mix since the hunter was meant for ranged. However, there are a lot of things that like you said...can help.

This class, and all thief-type classes are good at fighting one on one. Not as good as warriors are at many opponents. That is why my main downfall is large groups of enemies. I can kill 1 shot most of the time. That is where the net trap comes in handy. Even though I do get hit for the net trap, its worth it. The reason is that i get to lessen the numbers of the enemy. I generally start every large engagement with cold trap, then net trap. They are then slow and immobile. At which point i finish off those i can and at the same time, have a place to fall back to for the next group. Without a place to fall back on, i have nothing.

Because of that this class is very tricky to play and i highly doubt most people would have the patience. I am still figuring out the advanced way to get past certain things. Luckily i have light-touch, which saves my ass.

Really, it's not that it's a bad hybrid. It's just a bad Melee hybrid. It could be pretty nice if you were playing it ranged. Trying to play an assassin/hunter as a melee character is about like trying to play a defender/shaman as a caster specializing in life burn. Not exactly playing to your strengths.

graffen69
05-22-2010, 02:23 AM
Yeah, i find builds like these work great in MP, especially taking out Bosses but isnt of much use vs. the mass of trash mobs. I would say keep the toon for MP games and build something else for SP.

graffen69
05-22-2010, 08:32 PM
Actually, the way i deal with masses of trash mobs on all my single target melee/archer toons is equipping them with a weapon that proccs a high level (15-20+ and beyond) AoE skill, like Flame Wall, Chain Lightning or Frost Nova. And with the bosses, elites and champs i switch back to a high dps weapon. With the procc weapons the aoe is primary and dps secondary, and if its a melee toon that can wield it, i go for either daggers (becuz of speed) or staves (becuz of insanely low dex req). I also save up some haste gear for those toons, to improve att speed even more.
This is making the build even more offensive and not really what ya asked for, but if u kill them before they can hit u, problem solved. Ofc, u need a higher level toon to get ya those kind of gear. :rolleyes:

DeathKnight1728
05-22-2010, 09:06 PM
I appreciate all your advice guys. I decided to just use him for single player and maybe use him for a little mp sometimes. Single player is much easier for me to play (plus no competition). After getting a little farther with him, i got some better equipment over the last few days. Put him back into a reasonable defense zone. The only thing i got to work on is getting him to a higher lvl...in a reasonable time. A lot of you guys have chars at pretty high lvls, and i cant seem to see what your secret is. I'll spend 45 minutes and get 1 lvl. This was the same problem with dop.

graffen69
05-22-2010, 09:20 PM
A lot of you guys have chars at pretty high lvls, and i cant seem to see what your secret is. I'll spend 45 minutes and get 1 lvl.

Building a power level toon that can hit 80+ in a few nights casual play isnt really that hard once you played around with some classes and hybrids. A lot of players dont wanna know these kind of things beforehand as they feel it would ruin the surprise of the game not to mention the fun. I totally respect that, so if u want any such advice, feel free to send a private message.