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svetlano
05-25-2010, 04:57 AM
Well, in the end i decided to not wait for the Steam version and bought the game, loving it so mutch.
I see some minor aspect i would change though: like, for example the drop rate and quality of rare and very rare items.
I feel like they are dropping too mutch and their quality it's just average and very often it happens that i prefer to stick with green stuff.
I'd reduce the drop rate of those and make them stronger, more diversified, particular, and for example with some visual improvements like glowing , shadowing sparkling and so on, so when it happens you drop one, you really feel you got a beast of a item.
Let's say from what i've seen so far, that i'd do a mass items upgrade, insert more sets, actually, sometimes it feels like you are dropping tons of "more of the same" stuff.
I will discuss this better later when i'll be at least 30 hours of gameplay.
But as now, it is for me the only "complaint" i have with the game, and in my opinion in a Dungeon Crowler items add really a big value and keep the game fresh like the outstanding randomization of the world the game already has.

Kruztee
05-25-2010, 05:05 AM
You might enjoy the rare magic items mod here (http://www.soldak.com/Dins-Curse/Mods/Rare-Magic-Items-Mod.html).;)

svetlano
05-25-2010, 05:19 AM
You might enjoy the rare magic items mod here (http://www.soldak.com/Dins-Curse/Mods/Rare-Magic-Items-Mod.html).;)

Well let's say nice mod, but at the moment i think that is the core game that needs a mass items revamp to be the very best Dungeon Crawler out there and i think Steven can do it better than other developers did, so i "beg" him to think about it.

Kruztee
05-25-2010, 05:39 AM
I doubt at this stage whether a mass items revamp is on the cards, although Shadow has shown to be open to tweaking specific items in past patches if it can be demonstrated that changes are to the benefit of the game. Certainly, I would say that the drop system is pretty much set in stone these days and won't change much (I doubt that it will be changed at all).

The game is very easily moddable. You can pretty much do whatever you want to the items and drop system. Take a look at the SDK and have a crack at it yourself. If you don't feel confident doing that, I'm sure somebody around here is willing to help you (me included) so that you can tailor the game exactly to to way you like it.

svetlano
05-25-2010, 06:27 AM
I doubt at this stage whether a mass items revamp is on the cards, although Shadow has shown to be open to tweaking specific items in past patches if it can be demonstrated that changes are to the benefit of the game. Certainly, I would say that the drop system is pretty much set in stone these days and won't change much (I doubt that it will be changed at all).

The game is very easily moddable. You can pretty much do whatever you want to the items and drop system. Take a look at the SDK and have a crack at it yourself. If you don't feel confident doing that, I'm sure somebody around here is willing to help you (me included) so that you can tailor the game exactly to to way you like it.

I'm not into programming at all, is this a visual system ?
I'd like definitely toy around with it. I still think the items and drop rate needs a revamp in the core game, it's the same feeling i had playing Dephts of Peril, but sure, i can play around with the modding system, could you point me to some clues about it ?

Jorlen
05-25-2010, 10:35 AM
So basically you're saying the uniques / set items need to drop less, and be better?

Completely agree and so do many others here and it has been suggested.

svetlano
05-25-2010, 03:42 PM
So basically you're saying the uniques / set items need to drop less, and be better?

Completely agree and so do many others here and it has been suggested.

Yes that's what i'm saying, but i more intended to mean rare and very rare items, not having still alot of experience with high level items, but the base concept it's the same.

First time you see yellows, you are like:" WOW i really got something here!"
After 5 - 6 hours of tons of average yellows, that u are often neither equipping preferring greens, you are like: "MEH ! Another one, let's see", i mean, it's too mutch "plain".
They should be alot less in drop rate and Almost ALWAYS better than green ones.
That's what i found even when playing Dephts of Peril too.
That said, i'm still loving the game ALOT, and this is saying something on how mutch the game would become incredible with improved drop rates and improved items (shapes , icons, visual effects, and properties, always randomly generated but with more random properties for each better item pool).
Example: Staff of the XXXX or armor of XxxX (very rare)(icons,shapes, colors randomly generated only from the pool of very rare items possible variables), (X bonuses here randomly generated, that have never to pass a certain total amount or % defined only for very rare items).
Here % possibility of one of the random interactive properties defined for very rare items (right click to use cast some spell level X, recharge X minutes or X charges) or (X% to cast X) or ( equip: X monster respect the holder of the staff and can be tamed/befriended using it :X charges) ecc ecc..
These must be dropped in a certain % almost only killing bosses starting from certain levels, must be definitely really more powerful that greens and must be one, maximum 2 of them.

In my opinion an item system like this(or similar), in conjunction with the greatness of the already existing randomly generated words and events, will really do the game almost endlessy make you coming back for more .

svetlano
05-25-2010, 09:07 PM
The more i play the more i understand this is BY FAR the best dungeon crawler / roguelike i've ever played (and i played alot of them, even oriental ones, (if someone knows some of the Chunsoft old glories).
I still think the items issue is something IMHO to be corrected ASAP in order for the game to achieve perfection.
I'd also propose to reduce at least 50% unidentified drops in general to make the game "flow" better. It'a bit painful to pause / unpause identify all ->repeat, everytime u have to discard something/make some space in the bags.
Just an example screenshot of one of the many, rare week drops, and the green it's cloth..

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7061/yellowp.gif

Viliki
05-25-2010, 09:24 PM
...
I'd also propose to reduce at least 50% unidentified drops in general to make the game "flow" better. It'a bit painful to pause / unpause identify all ->repeat, everytime u have to discard something/make some space in the bags.

I'm not sure it's the best way to manage it. Manual identify makes you lost a precious time and I think it's better to give up do it for almost all items.

A better way I think is for example to pick only magic items, some standard items are very nice but that's not that often and it doesn't worth pick them except during very first levels. Then don't try identify items and organize your exploration to use a teleport door to go back in town when your bags are full or close to be full. Then use the identify button in a shop to identify all items at once and sell or keep them. And sometimes there are shops in dungeon and are handy for a quick identifying.

Manual identify is better used only for rare cases, for example if you find a rather special item and you aren't in a good situation and hope it will be useful asap.

This flow is totally excellent because it makes you concentrate on the action and exploration and world events, and you make a deep investigation of items found only when you have many to examine. And you aren't much tempted to constantly check last item pick, because the time lost is too important.

Teddy
05-25-2010, 09:31 PM
Just to echo what others have said, the only downfall that I've found is in the itemization of drops.

I had one yellow 1H axe that I kept for around 20 levels, simply because higher colored items were worse than that one yellow. The only reason I stopped using it was not because something better dropped, rather I decided to go 2H instead.

When I get together with friends and play co-op, we don't even bother picking up greens anymore.. for that matter we rarely pick up the plethora of coins that drop either unless they are 20sp+. Money in the game doesn't really have a whole lot of value, you spend it to repair or identify. Unless you gamble, the vendors rarely have anything worth buying short of food.

Someone else mentioned sharing of coin drops. I'd like to see coins automatically picked up and dispersed amongst the group. Yes the leprechauns can take a fair chunk, but really, it's a pittance to what drops when you kill them.

Other than that, we enjoy playing DC alot.

Kruztee
05-25-2010, 09:33 PM
Yeah, I understand what you're saying but am inclined to disagree with your opinion.

1) I have a lvl 65 rogue who has only one green item equipped. In nearly all cases yellow, orange or blue items tend to be better for me.

2) I agree that collecting item sets for the bonus stats is not worthwhile on a single character. But in a non-hardcore mode, you can keep all those set pieces on mule characters and deck out applicable characters in full sets. In this sense, sets can still be marginally useful.

3) I enjoy lots of loot drops. I find that when I'm playing meticulously and carefully comparing equipped items with drops, I enjoy much greater success than when I'm just feeling lazy and am running through a level without bothering to pick up much vendor trash. Less drops would be less fun in my opinion. Even though I know that 98% of what I pick up is going to be utter rubbish, I quite enjoy rummaging through my loot for that elusive find.

I guess if I were you I would start by applying the rare magic items mod (or a variant of it) and then on top of that, create a new items class for something like "super elite" items. Define how many and what kind of mods will appear on these weapons and take things from there.

svetlano
05-26-2010, 06:49 AM
Yeah, I understand what you're saying but am inclined to disagree with your opinion.

3) I enjoy lots of loot drops. I find that when I'm playing meticulously and carefully comparing equipped items with drops, I enjoy much greater success than when I'm just feeling lazy and am running through a level without bothering to pick up much vendor trash. Less drops would be less fun in my opinion. Even though I know that 98% of what I pick up is going to be utter rubbish, I quite enjoy rummaging through my loot for that elusive find.

I guess if I were you I would start by applying the rare magic items mod (or a variant of it) and then on top of that, create a new items class for something like "super elite" items. Define how many and what kind of mods will appear on these weapons and take things from there.

Lots of general drops are ok, but the system as it is is just too "plain" , i'm saying it's just pointless to have some items defined "rare" and "very rare" when you can find one or more, every two minutes, almost dropped from any insignificant critter out there and often damn weak too. It just removes from the game the emotion to drop really rare and special stuff, when u see yellow u dont cheer ! That's what i mean !
And i dont think applying a mod would satisfy me, i think it's just a minor tweek that must be absolutely applied in the core game release, but, well, that's just me.. :)

graffen69
05-26-2010, 06:49 AM
Yeah iŽve seen players use real crappy colored gear to the point where they hardly even do any damage and totally neglect the better and far more common items. It sais something about the huge amount of common and rare drops and although the Rare Magic Item Mod at
http://www.soldak.com/Dins-Curse/Mods.html
adress the frequency of it, it dosent solve that stat, resist and dps bonuses on set, artifact and legendary gear needs a big overhaul. As Kruztee poined out it gets somewhat better at higher levels. WoW and Diablo players that are new to this game might get fooled, but its nothing that hasnt already been said in earlier threads.

Trelow
05-26-2010, 02:32 PM
I like lots of shiny things in different colors. Even if they are crap.

Caal
05-26-2010, 07:10 PM
I see some minor aspect i would change though: like, for example the drop rate and quality of rare and very rare items.
I feel like they are dropping too mutch and their quality it's just average and very often it happens that i prefer to stick with green stuff.
I'd reduce the drop rate of those and make them stronger, more diversified, particular, and for example with some visual improvements like glowing , shadowing sparkling and so on, so when it happens you drop one, you really feel you got a beast of a item.


I've been experimenting with mods, and you might be interested in these. The first is a less drastic version of Shadow's Rare Magic Items mod, and the second is one based on code by GeorgiaBoy that puts additional random modifiers on elite and higher items. When used together, the idea is to reduce the number of higher quality drops, but make the high end drops that you do get better.

graffen69
05-26-2010, 07:44 PM
I've been experimenting with mods, and you might be interested in these. The first is a less drastic version of Shadow's Rare Magic Items mod, and the second is one based on code by GeorgiaBoy that puts additional random modifiers on elite and higher items. When used together, the idea is to reduce the number of higher quality drops, but make the high end drops that you do get better.

Very interesting. IŽll try both out right away. :)

Viliki
05-26-2010, 08:14 PM
What games had a good drop system? MMO don't qualify because people playing one put a lot more time that any player put in one single player game so you can't implement a MMO system in a single player game.

From other similar games I don't remember any having a better system. That includes, Diablo 2, Titan Quest, Torchlight, Fate, not sure for Sacred 1&2 because I didn't play them long enough.

If I check my current character, he has a dagger 20dps, it's an artifact he is using since 3 levels and I bet this character will use it some more time. Anyway I wonder what similar game picture a better system?

svetlano
05-27-2010, 04:42 AM
I've been experimenting with mods, and you might be interested in these. The first is a less drastic version of Shadow's Rare Magic Items mod, and the second is one based on code by GeorgiaBoy that puts additional random modifiers on elite and higher items. When used together, the idea is to reduce the number of higher quality drops, but make the high end drops that you do get better.

What ItemCommonRandomMagicModifier 1 exactly does ?
I noticed that the value is increased maximum to 5 for legendary in the mod.
Does this value represents the amount of magical stats one item can have ?
Example: ItemCommonRandomMagicModifier 1 just adds one bonus only ? (+ 5 dexterity) or (12% armor ) or something else ?
Can this modifier be more than 5 ?
There's a parameter like this that can be applied to damage range amount and armor range amount for different pool of items ?

ItemCommonChance 7.5 works like higher the value lower the chance to drop ?

Caal
05-27-2010, 07:40 PM
I'm still learning modding, but I'll try to answer your questions.
What ItemCommonRandomMagicModifier 1 exactly does ?
That would add one random modifier to a common item
I noticed that the value is increased maximum to 5 for legendary in the mod.
Does this value represents the amount of magical stats one item can have ?
I believe it is the number of additional random modifiers plus the normal number of modifiers that legendary items get.
Example: ItemCommonRandomMagicModifier 1 just adds one bonus only ? (+ 5 dexterity) or (12% armor ) or something else ?
Yes.
Can this modifier be more than 5 ?
I believe so, but I don't know what the limit is.
There's a parameter like this that can be applied to damage range amount and armor range amount for different pool of items ?
Probably. I don't know for sure, but many aspects of items can be modified. Post this in the mod section and someone will answer it.
ItemCommonChance 7.5 works like higher the value lower the chance to drop ?
Since the Rare Magic Items mod cuts the normal values in half, I'd say lowering the chance lowers the drop rate.

graffen69
05-28-2010, 04:33 AM
I've been experimenting with mods, and you might be interested in these. The first is a less drastic version of Shadow's Rare Magic Items mod, and the second is one based on code by GeorgiaBoy that puts additional random modifiers on elite and higher items. When used together, the idea is to reduce the number of higher quality drops, but make the high end drops that you do get better.

I must say, these mods bring new life to the game and overall the improved colored loot mods makes rarer drops much more interesting. The masses of drops in the original game quite frankly became boring. The only issue is ofc you will not make as much money selling off gear.
As a side note ive noticed that plate and weapons yields most cash, even if not magical. I find this a bit odd, but its the way the game is programmed.
As a possible alternative to Vilikis question; try these mods out, ya might like em.