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Tuidjy
07-16-2013, 09:24 AM
There was a thread like this in the Drop Operative Game forum, but I am starting one for the extension pack. After all, Iota ships are much more powerful than vanilla, and we don't want them to steal the shine off our old ships, do we.

I will still post a screenshot of my old Eviscerator, just so that I have a baseline of what a vanilla end game ship looks like:

http://i.imgur.com/HS0lgHZ.jpg

Tuidjy
07-16-2013, 09:32 AM
I believe that the ultimate stealth ship can be built from a Drakk hull, not a Shadow one. Of course, the means that you do not have a stealth ship until you find a cloak that will work on something other than a Shadow ship. I took me 'till level twentish to do so. Here's a screenshot of DPAKOH B MPAKA at level 25:

http://i.imgur.com/VmixXUF.jpg

Here's a another screenshot at level 71. At this point, aimed attacks are practically always critical, and for a brief time after uncloaking, even area of effect attacks are usually critical. The fighters main role is to provide a defensive screen, which is why I use stealth fighters despite having access to much harder hitting small craft.

http://i.imgur.com/LP8TrzL.jpg

By the way, the above screenshot has been taken while cloaked, to show off the high criticals. Of course, six seconds after the ship uncloaks, the critical hit chance goes down.

Tuidjy
07-18-2013, 02:33 PM
This is by far my most powerful ship. It's a Tactical 45, Command 460 Brunt. No mods whatsoever.

http://i.imgur.com/TwCgw0k.jpg

The ship is ridiculously easy to play. The laser and virus chew through anything that is not a boss or a race ship in under a second. Nothing lasts more than two-three seconds. The shockwave is on auto-fire and fires four times per second - missiles and MIRV pods are not a problem if you can keep them coming from one side.

With 17,000 armor, and ~900 armor repaired per kill, survival is not a problem. Energy regeneration is not a problem when every weapon takes less energy to fire than you get back if you hit. With attack of 7,500, missing is rare.

This ship can be improved quite a bit. I have not given every component the full Fringe treatment. There's at least 1,500 power load to shave off, and the armor components could be better. But what's the point? Unless Shadow lets us generate sectors at level 100-150, there's not much this ship has to worry about.

Tyrax Lightning
07-18-2013, 05:27 PM
You make me feel like a retard... i'll never be even a fraction as powerful at the game as you are... :'(

Tuidjy
07-18-2013, 06:17 PM
Oh, come on, this is about having fun. There's no reason to think you are having less than I am. In any case, I am enjoying my much less powerful stealth ship more than I enjoyed the min-maxed Big Bad Brunt, and I just started a Command 0 Fringe - the Ghastly Gnat.

I fully intend to have fun with the Gnat, and it will never be a fraction as powerful as a normal ship.

Tyrax Lightning
07-19-2013, 02:04 PM
Oh, come on, this is about having fun. There's no reason to think you are having less than I am. In any case, I am enjoying my much less powerful stealth ship more than I enjoyed the min-maxed Big Bad Brunt, and I just started a Command 0 Fringe - the Ghastly Gnat.

I fully intend to have fun with the Gnat, and it will never be a fraction as powerful as a normal ship.
Heheh wouldn't the "Ghastly Gnat" be more appropriate a name on a Hive Ship? :p

Expanding Man
07-19-2013, 02:20 PM
How do you guys use the fancy shields/engines with such low engineering/helm? Am I missing something?

Tuidjy
07-19-2013, 02:24 PM
Heheh wouldn't the "Ghastly Gnat" be more appropriate a name on a Hive Ship? :p

I was thinking of the way the ship looks, not the appearance of the members of that particular race. I do not think of the Drox operative as a member of the ship's race - he may as well be a Human commanding a Fringe ship.

To me, the Fringe Light Escort looks like a gnat, and that ship will remain a light escort.

Tuidjy
07-19-2013, 02:37 PM
How do you guys use the fancy shields/engines with such low engineering/helm? Am I missing something?

You only need the ship's skill to match the component at two times: when you are installing the component, and when you are activating a component.

So for passive components, like armor, power plants, etc... you just need to use medium components like neural interfaces, and crew members when you are installing them. You can remove them afterwards.

For active components, like lasers and stealth cloaks, you need to have the skill when you use them, which is why Big Bad Brunt has a gunner on watch, and Дракон в мрака has two pilots.

Expanding Man
07-19-2013, 02:39 PM
Woah, I had no idea. Thanks that makes things a lot better! It does seem to strongly favor ships that specialize in active abilities though... certainly give brunt a huge advantage...

Tuidjy
08-06-2013, 10:08 PM
Ghastly Gnat bought it at level 30, by running into one of Vex's missiles and suffering 745 damage. I never got around to taking its screenshot.

So I started its successor: Squishy the Bug

http://i.imgur.com/OvnjTHh.jpg

Tuidjy
08-13-2013, 10:33 PM
Squishy the Bug has not been squished yet. I found a shockwave and a laser with decreased energy consumption, and I spent a ton of credits with Lithosoid to get a strong armor.

Squishy defeated a level 38 Aurora at level 34, so it's a relatively tough nut to break... for a Command 0 ship.

http://i.imgur.com/CSWT9df.jpg

Tuidjy
08-20-2013, 01:20 PM
The biggest change from a few levels ago is that I replaced the second power plant with a second armor. The latest patch has restricted scavenger components, so that there is no longer a way for Squishy to quickly repair armor. So I decided to get a greater reserve of hit points, at the expense of energy regeneration.

I have been very lucky with crew. I have a few generalists who nicely cover Structure, Computers and Engineering, but more important yet, I have two combat specialists with over 100% criticals.

http://i.imgur.com/JqbaaMM.jpg

Tyrax Lightning
08-23-2013, 12:55 PM
The Scavenger Ships are sweet looking thus far! (Thus far, up to the Light Titan.)

This is my new Scavenger Borg (http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1118304506554137760/FF9F1C8A2E39A14B6B96BBA158C8B8CF97F3699A/), as of the end of the 1st Challenge Sector & ready to move on to the 2nd Challenge Sector. :cool:

Also... Screenie of close-up of the Scavenger Light Titan (http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1118304506554151235/470F66B7626982F7AF5B760EFCC5CEC7BAF89EA0/) for anyone wondering if the Scavenger Ships look any good or not. ^_^

Edit: Made it up to the Light Flagship & beyond now! (http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1118304506556180645/074A1B83DFFB107707FE17A47835DAA1E3306A84/) ^_^ This Ship is so big, I had to take the Screenie from one Zoom Out away from Maximum Zoom In to catch it all! :D

Tuidjy
08-28-2013, 03:38 PM
Nice. I did not even remember you could zoom in and out. I disabled that option a long time ago. Thanks for reminding me!

By the way, I sure hope you are keeping an armored cover on the [3] key. Or you have blow yourself up at least once when you meant to launch a fighter with [2].

norari1977
08-28-2013, 11:41 PM
http://norari1977.sakura.ne.jp/img/drox/ss0000.jpg

my Scavenger ship( not using any mod) i'm using primary beam and virus weapon but it's too simple play without much tactics.i may try missile or other weapon build or i don't use the way crew member exchange when i equip the components.i've bought many other games in this year but i have no time to play those because of Drox. this game is so much fan!

Tyrax Lightning
08-29-2013, 03:13 AM
Nice. I did not even remember you could zoom in and out. I disabled that option a long time ago. Thanks for reminding me!

By the way, I sure hope you are keeping an armored cover on the [3] key. Or you have blow yourself up at least once when you meant to launch a fighter with [2].
I have my Mouse Wheel set for scrolling the Right Click Slots, & during the rare time I have a reason to Zoom In & Out, I can easily enough use the Page Up/Page Down Keys for that.

& surprisingly, i've accidentally blown myself up through fatfinger only once or twice, total throughout my Drox Life. The most recent time was when I accidentally hit 3 instead of 2 while meaning to pop out more Fighters as I was IDing & sorting & such through my Inventory dealing with recently looted loot. :D

Oh, speaking of which, sidenote: I've discovered that Missile Defense Systems work at trying to defend ya from enemy missiles even while you're in your Escape Pod! Sweet! ^_^ The Flak kind of Missile Defense Systems suck, but the rest of them are totally useful & worth it now, especially the Directed Radiation ones! :cool:

Borg's grown quite a bit... now that this Thread is moving again, I oughta Screenie a Status Report. He's fast approaching the Heavy Flagship Model. ^_^

Edit: Objective Met. Here's how Borg is doing thus far (http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1118305042991410212/DEE94328D7F94E06976478059177DB94EF45E90E/). :)

Tuidjy
08-30-2013, 09:16 PM
Squishy's still not dead. Lithosoid has been present in most of the latest sectors, so I have have been able to upgrade the armor periodically. There have been some close calls, mostly when multiple monsters have turned into Gleria at once.

There's not much that's different. Laser and shockwave, as much armor as I can afford, plus a power plant and a computer to make it all work. The shockwave, in conjunction with the energy leecher, probably generates more energy than the power plant.

http://i.imgur.com/DF2yO74.jpg

Bzzatah
08-31-2013, 12:08 AM
Isn't being able to use a component without the requirements an exploit? I'd like to know the most powerful build without having to exploit.

PixelLord
08-31-2013, 10:26 AM
How in the world do all those huge cargo bays fit in that itty-bitty ship!? ;)

norari1977
08-31-2013, 10:43 AM
it's quite impressive that you could survive no-command stats ships in HC.i always have many problem when my ships around level 30-50, it'll be much earier if i could reached over level 80 though. i wish i have more courage to try HC :(

Tuidjy
08-31-2013, 03:01 PM
PixelLord: How in the world do all those huge cargo bays fit in that itty-bitty ship!?

They are giant, not huge! But I am surprised that you are not familiar with the technology used. Hell, it's been around since medieval times. The ancestor of Squishy's captain used it to store 30 battleaxes in her knapsack, at the time of her troubles with that busybody Din.

Norari1977: it's quite impressive that you could survive no-command stats ships in HC.i always have many problem when my ships around level 30-50, it'll be much earier if i could reached over level 80 though.

Well, I don't always survive, you know. There have been at least half a dozen Command Zero challengers before Squishy. They usually die when a boss manages to land a blow before being debuffed. By level 40, Bosses can hit for 5,000. The worst I've been hit was 7,000 around level 70, so I assume that 10,000 may be theoretically possible. On high levels, you just cannot afford to let a boss fire at you.

Tyrax Lightning
09-01-2013, 03:09 AM
Status Report: Borg has made it to Heavy Flagship! :D

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/1118305043062739868/8DC237D833F3DB15DFC1713F402BBCECB129EABF/

Tuidjy
09-03-2013, 04:02 PM
Isn't being able to use a component without the requirements an exploit? I'd like to know the most powerful build without having to exploit.

I do not think that it is an exploit, because

(1) It is perfectly realistic - you do not need your mechanic on the passenger seat just because you've installed a bigger downpipe or added an intercooler.

(2) It seems that the game is designed for it - you need more than 90% of the available skill points to reach some hulls, and you have a clear distinction between passive and active components.

(3) There are game mechanics that penalize using components without the requirements - they would not have been added if it was an exploit.

(4) Shadow has been asked whether it was exploit, and I understood what he said to mean that it was not.

As for the best build, you should not be looking at Squishy. Squishy is designed with a very heavy handicap: Command Zero is very hard to pull off.

The best build without using passive components for which you do not have the requirement is Command 460 / Tactics 45 on a Scavenger ship, with crew and skill components permanently mounted that bring all of your stats over 150. I do not have such a ship, but I could reconfigure the Big Bad Brunt if you want to see that it is possible before you try it with a Scavenger.

Bzzatah
09-04-2013, 07:04 AM
Okay, thanks for the info! I wasn't meaning to be offensive. So as long as it is a passive item it will work without the required stat points? I thought that I tried that with a computer component and when I unequipped my crew member the item's stats were removed from the info sheet, but maybe I was mistaken.

Oh! I don't recall exactly which point, but I had a really big Scavenger ship then the next upgrade in command made me a tiny ship again. Is that the same with the older races too? Kind of disappointing going from a nice battleship to a babby ship again.
thanks again!
Bzzatah

Bzzatah
09-04-2013, 07:09 AM
Status Report: Borg has made it to Heavy Flagship! :D

http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/1118305043062739868/8DC237D833F3DB15DFC1713F402BBCECB129EABF/

Your structure is 1337! Grats ;)

Tuidjy
09-04-2013, 02:00 PM
So as long as it is a passive item it will work without the required stat points? I thought that I tried that with a computer component and when I unequipped my crew member the item's stats were removed from the info sheet,

Some computer components are active - they boost your accuracy, critical hit chance, etc... 50% of the time, i.e. their refresh time is twice their boost time. For those, you need the skill requirements, and you need some energy.

Oh! I don't recall exactly which point, but I had a really big Scavenger ship then the next upgrade in command made me a tiny ship again. Is that the same with the older races too? Kind of disappointing going from a nice battleship to a babby ship again.

I hate that as well, but understand why Shadow did it. Most players would never see the high end models if hulls went strictly from smaller to bigger. If I had gone to the trouble of designing Titans and Flagships (which often look awesome) I would want players to see them, too.

Tyrax Lightning
09-04-2013, 02:44 PM
Status Report: Borg is currently at Lvl 76! (http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1099165290013855547/C8556EE49272452799DFD9C78DBAE5024B0974CE/) :)

Tuidjy
09-05-2013, 03:14 AM
I finally got my stealthy assassin up to level 100. It's a 250 Tactical / 200 Command / 50 Helm ship. No mods.

It is ridiculously effective. I do not bother to cloak unless I'm fighting a race ship or a boss, because the laser/virus combo blows up monster ships in a faction of a second.

When I do cloak, the stealth bonuses last for six seconds which are enough to kill three race/ancient ships, or two Talon/Overlord/Legion ships. Once the bonus goes away, it is trivial to get some distance away from any surviving enemies, because the fighter screen keeps them busy.

The screen shot is taken while cloaked, of course. Note the attack. critical hit chance and direct hit chance. There are no misses, every hit is a critical, and half are for max damage, which makes a big difference, with beam weapons. The effective DPS is actually at least four times the displayed one.

http://i.imgur.com/Oueag4U.jpg

Professor Paul1290
09-25-2013, 03:26 AM
The Achernar has made it to level 82:
http://i.imgur.com/AQw8Cj8.png

As for recent changes, well I added a Geomagnetic Storm because I didn't think I had enough weapons. :rolleyes:

Tuidjy
09-27-2013, 04:44 PM
I absolutely do not understand how you survive with such low shields/armor.

I get that the fighters provide a defensive screen. But there are times when you do not have fighters: you enter a new sector, you resume a game, your fighters all go visit the neighborhood's anti-matter field. Furthermore, a group of Cestos, a bounty hunter, an ancient race's destroyer or a laser boss like Wrath will wipe out five fighters in ten seconds. So you cannot have your fighters all of the time, and at least sometimes, you will take damage with your ship.

Bosses, elites and veterans start hitting for five-six thousands as early as level 75 and they are a ton of vanilla monsters that will hit you for one or two thousand damage. That will blow up your ship, or at least destroy some of your components... and unless you are circling around any real excitement, sometimes you cannot take your enemies one by one.

You don't have a cloak, you don't have ten stashes of thruster boosters, and your weapons, defense and resistances are very respectable, but not insanely powerful. You are clearly surviving using a strategy I'm unfamiliar with.

Care to share?

---

For a comparison, I usually lose my Command Zero challengers to few lucky shots by a monster I failed to spot in time. A few days ago I lost a level 79 ship to a single 6000 damage shot and a level 62 ship to four lucky lasers criticals from an ancient destroyer. Both ships had more than 7000 armor, but were not at full health, and I was not as alert as I should have been.

Professor Paul1290
09-27-2013, 08:28 PM
I absolutely do not understand how you survive with such low shields/armor.

Well first of all, Achernar is NOT a Hard Core ship, so it should NOT be compared to Hard Core ships as far as survivability goes.

Also, it's built oddly because I tried to build it in a way that would force me maneuver around more and use different tactics to make it work, so I intentionally gave it very little defense and more weapon types. That's pretty much why it is the way it is.


That being said, I'm not exactly suicide running around the place as I'd have economic losses left and right if I did that (none of those so far).
After some experimenting and some trial and error I did come up strategy that makes this work, and it is somewhat involved.

As far as fighters go, they often don't make that great of a good defensive screen on their own, but there is a way of handling them so they do.
If I'm not in a mostly friendly system I travel just slow enough for the fighters to be able to catch up and loop around ahead of me. I also don't use direct-fire weapons until the fighters have gotten their first shots in.
When there are no enemies around and I'm just "traveling" I leave the fighters on Aggressive, which makes it so they will engage any enemies that come into range and thus they're the first to attract attention. During a fight when all fighters are shooting at something I swap them to Defensive, and that ensures that when they swap targets they target something that's either shooting at me or another fighter. I leave them that way until after the fight when all immediate enemies have been destroyed, then I switch them back to Aggressive.

When I first meet an enemy I let the fighters get their shots in first. While they're doing that I put myself at just within kinetic cannon range, and quickly do a loop laying a line of a couple mines then position myself behind it. By that time the fighters probably already have targets I set them to Defensive. I stay at just within cannon range and let loose with the kinetic cannon until one of enemies opens fire on me and gives chase, then I give them three shots of Virus, apply the Geomagnetic Storm, and dodge where applicable. I then kite them back through the mines, but I keep them just at the edge of kinetic cannon range.
One of the nice things that happens at this point is that any of my fighters still engaging other targets will fall out of range, and are teleported back to me. At that point they lose their current target and their only valid target is the enemy I'm currently kiting, so right away all my fighters attack this one enemy. That coupled with the Virus, Geomagnetic Storm, Kinetic Cannon, and Mines means that whichever enemy goes after me first takes a lot of damage very quickly and usually succumbs pretty soon after passing the mines.

When that enemy is dealt with I now have a bunch of enemies trailing behind me, however as a consequence of the above fighter teleporting they all lost their fighter targets in order from farthest to nearest, so they're now likely to be very close together, and if it's a mixed group they'll start to separate by speed.
If the head group or enemy isn't too much of a threat I can close distance and finish them off in a with my main weapons. If it's a mixed group they'll stretch out in a stream so I'll be able to focus fire on them as they come into range.
On the other hand if they're still enough to pose a threat even with that, I can keep them out of direct-fire weapons range and thin them by dropping mines, which as an AOE benefits from the fact they are now clumped together.
If I choose to drop mines, then I keep the enemies just within range of the fighters as well, which is farther than the Kinetic cannon.

Throughout this I can avoid a lot of damage most of the time. Beam weapons are avoided because (except for the brief period I might use to fire the Virus) I stay out of range of them, I have plenty of time to shoot down most Missiles due to distance, and most Kinetic weapons can be dodged.
Another nice thing about this is that it involves Kinetic (cannon), Beam (Fighters), and Explosion (Mines) damage, so I can sort of re-arrange this where needed to focus more on whatever damage type seems to be more effective.

That leaves the problem of dealing with enemies that are faster than me, so for those I use a slightly different strategy with those, mainly killing them first. Failing that, because the enemy is faster I can get them to leave other enemies behind and I can concentrate fire on them more quickly.
There are also the enemies, mainly certain bosses, that are absurdly fast and do hit and run. That usually turns into a fighters and mines deal. Since they have to approach close occasionally I lay out a bunch of mines around and then focus on keeping fighters up. When the hit-and-runner approaches I move in the opposite direction so the first thing they collide with is the Fighters and Mines.


Speaking of Fighters and Mines, Mines are also a big part of what make this ship work.
In a way you could say that Mines one of the longest range weapons in the game, as odd as that might sound.
If you drop a mine behind you and keep going it'll be effective even after you've gone out of laser, kinetic, and even missile range. You don't need to see it in order for it to go off, it detonates on its own.

If an enemy or group is simply way too powerful and it doesn't have extraordinary speed (or as mentioned above, sometimes even if they do), then my last ditch tactic is to drag them to where I have a lot of room, then stay just within Fighter range and drop Mines. They get both beam and explosion damage and this is outside the range of most weapons, so as long as I don't run into trouble along the way they will eventually die.

Tuidjy
09-28-2013, 03:48 AM
Thanks for the elaborate answer. Laying mines and keeping your distance combine into a strategy of which I was quite oblivious. Something to think about :-)

Tuidjy
10-02-2013, 03:17 PM
Another week, another Command Zero challenger. This one will try to survive by cloaking. It's also got the no-life trait, which maybe a bit too much of a handicap, but we'll see.

http://i.imgur.com/RHPYBiW.jpg

Tyrax Lightning
10-17-2013, 03:30 AM
Another week, another Command Zero challenger. This one will try to survive by cloaking. It's also got the no-life trait, which maybe a bit too much of a handicap, but we'll see.

*Snip*Have ya ever considered throwing out the Beam in favor of the EM Pulse/Lightning Cannon to add EMP debuffage to the Virus debuffage? Worked well on my Utopian Character against single targets. If only he coulda been able to defend himself from armys of foes too... :(


Status Report: Borg's still at Level 100, & has traded in the no-longer-useful Pulsar Generator (may it rest in peace...) for a +Weapon Speed Component, & has traded in his Hellfire (i'll miss ya bud...) for a Gravity Well Generator. It seems to be working out. :)

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1046251891013749360/FF737D0EF565ECC58BB0C2D0BD9C0A0068AC6DF0/

Also, my little pride & joy that I got so lucky on scavenging first try so early in the game has grown up into quite a Badass... :cool:

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1046251891013765597/D4C350C3EC0748D9688DDBD61CD2F549A565CAA8/

While i'm here, i've been playing & completing Level 106 Sectors, (Can't select 105 since it's an Odd Number.) & that's giving Races Tech Level 106... yet, the stuff they sell in Shops goes up to 153 Stat requirement... What Sector Level do I have to choose to get the strongest of the strong 155 Stat Requirement & Level 100 Ship requiring Components? I need to begin my powering up. Oh, & any luck on finding the likes of 155 Engineering requiring Energy Leechers, 155 Tactical Self Destructs, 155 Structural Escape Pods, & the like, or if they even exist?

Tuidjy
10-17-2013, 02:18 PM
Tyrax Lightning: Have ya ever considered throwing out the Beam in favor of the EM Pulse/Lightning Cannon to add EMP debuffage to the Virus debuffage?

It's a Command Zero ship. There are only three medium slots. All three items are working together to allow the ship to hit its target - the computers give it basic attack, the cloak multiplies it, and the virus stacks defense debuffs on the target. There's no room for a lightning cannon, i.e. it will not fit in a heavy slot, and it is not as useful as the existing components. I will experiment with a lightning cannon on the ship I am building with sector level 200 in mind - that one will have ten medium slots.

Tyrax Lightning: While i'm here, i've been playing & completing Level 106 Sectors, (Can't select 105 since it's an Odd Number.) & that's giving Races Tech Level 106... yet, the stuff they sell in Shops goes up to 153 Stat requirement... What Sector Level do I have to choose to get the strongest of the strong 155 Stat Requirement & Level 100 Ship requiring Components? I need to begin my powering up. Oh, & any luck on finding the likes of 155 Engineering requiring Energy Leechers, 155 Tactical Self Destructs, 155 Structural Escape Pods, & the like, or if they even exist?

I do not remember seeing any 155 stat requirement components, and before the 1.028 patch I used to hang out at level 200 a lot. If they exist, they never really impressed me enough to make me install them.

I do not think 153 engineering leechers exist, either. The Engineering requirements for leechers seems to be 2/3 of the usual ones, which means that anything over 100 is a lucky find. The best I have installed on my ships requires 106.

As for the other components you mention, I do not use them, so I have not paid attention to their requirements.

Tuidjy
10-27-2013, 05:10 AM
I just got my Scavenger to level 100. The idea was to save all of my money so that, as soon as I got to sector level 100+, I would use slotting and chipping to get the best possible components, and make an attempt to get to sector level 200. But 1.030 came out, and some of the subraces are simply better than Scavenger... so back to the drawing board. As for the All Devourer, I guess I'll just retire it... and before I do, I'll post a snapshot of it. I know it's not very interesting, because it's very similar to norari1977's Attila.

http://i.imgur.com/jnlDlKL.jpg

This is how it arrived at level 100, while still leveling crew members. I have not bothered replacing them with useful components. My plans were to shift some of the attack/defense to light components, and use weapon speed and beam damage components in the medium slots.

And now I'll start a new ship, probably a Reaper or an Ultimate Weapon one.

Tuidjy
11-01-2013, 04:33 PM
Metal Heart bought it. It had 2500 armor, and failed to blow up a missile that hit for more than that.

http://i.imgur.com/qwmSGN6.jpg

No Life was too much of a handicap. When you are unable to level up your crew, you have to constantly buy droids from the Scavenger so that you can keep your armor up. I rolled three sectors without Scavenger or Lithosoids, and getting one-shotted was the result.

But I think the ship design was sound. My next Command Zero ship is going to be very similar - stealth, virus weapons, and armor repaired from kills.

http://i.imgur.com/I9kS3ay.jpg

Tyrax Lightning
11-01-2013, 07:04 PM
My apologies if this isn't really in line with this Topic, but this might be a bit too small a question for an entire Thread to itself... Tuidjy, have ya ever tried out a Command 0 Cortex Ship that uses & builds entirely around just the Big Bang Weapon?

Tuidjy
11-01-2013, 08:04 PM
I have thought about it, but I cannot see how the ship would survive once the weapon is fired, killing one target, and the rest of the enemies are hunting it. The Big Bang takes forever to fire again, even if you have the means to recharge the batteries nearly instantaneously. And do not forget that it is an aimed weapon, which means that you would need to spend the skills/slots for computers.

Furthermore, Command Zero ships always have low defense, and there are enemies that are fast enough to catch up with anyone. As a matter of fact, Command Zero ships are more about surviving than about hurting the enemy - mine are not substantially less powerful, when it come to offense, than my normal ships, but a normal ship can get three times the armor and defense, while still dedicating some slots to active thrust boosters and a fighter screen.

And the Big Bang isn't all that, even with the new rules which let it benefit from tactical damage bonuses. I have experimented with a Big Bang with the All Devourer, and it could hit for over 100,000 damage... which is not necessarily enough to kill everyone at sector level 200. And afterward, you still have to deal with whomever has become interested in you.

Tyrax Lightning
11-02-2013, 12:17 AM
Ahh, sounds like sound insight. Many thanks for the info. :)

I love me my damage, & have wondered if the Big Bang could get 'Re-Tooled' into the Aimed Weapon's very badly needed AoE Damage Attack somehow... The lack of AOE Aimed Weapon, let alone one that does not suck, is still lots of reason why I shun the Computers Stat & use only Non-Aimed Weapons, in addition to how painful stat spread would get with Computers in factor even with my 8 Crew Points a level Mod. I can't handle that Double Component Breaking Speed problem that you & your skill can dodge around easily enough.

Tuidjy
11-03-2013, 02:55 PM
I do not quite understand why you need an specifically aimed area-of-effect weapon. It's not as if ships with very high attack have any trouble using the existing area-of-effect weaponry. Nothing prevents you from mounting a pulse, a shockwave or a Geo-magnetic storm generator on any ship.

But I agree that the Big Bang's usefulness is underwhelming. It would be a lot more useful if it had something like overflow damage - all damage beyond the one needed to kill the target could be split between the targets in range, or it could jump to the nearest target, and repeat until all the damage is used up.

The above would require a lot of additional programming, and may make the Big Bang a bit too powerful. While more options are always better, I think that Drox already has plenty of options. What it could really use is a bit of balancing, and a lot of depth.

Tyrax Lightning
11-03-2013, 07:01 PM
Imho, Non-Aimed Weapon + Computer Component use & Computer Stat use = bad synergy. Aimed Weapon + Computers or non-Aimed Weapon + No Computers or you're wasting power ya can't afford to waste even with 8 Crew Points a Level + Balanced Command Mod, let alone in Vanilla.

As for the Big Bang 'Chain Lightning' Effect idea, why would that be OP...? it needs to hit freaking hard & handle plenty of foes effectively in that one shot in order to be useful. By it's very nature, the Big Bang is not a weapon that can be spammed like Lasers can be. Plus, space is vast & holds foes in vast quantities... ;)

Tuidjy
11-04-2013, 04:49 PM
Aimed Weapon + Computers or non-Aimed Weapon + No Computers or you're wasting power ya can't afford to waste even with 8 Crew Points a Level + Balanced Command Mod, let alone in Vanilla.

Well, this is a Vanilla ship.
As you can see from its laser and missiles, it's an attack based ship.
It's firing at targets which are 40 levels higher than it is.
It's only using one single non-aimed weapon.
It may be wasting power, but I think it can afford to do so :cool:

http://i.imgur.com/2IRHJ6E.jpg

By the way, I did not even take the screenshot to show off the weapon. I took it as proof that crew members can level up at level 100, and I was using the shockwave, which I keep for missile defense, because I was searching the storage pod.

Tuidjy
11-19-2013, 10:17 PM
Another day, another Command Zero ship destined for the scrap yard. As few make it past level 75, I thought I'll post some snapshot while it still lives.

http://i.imgur.com/8FNVBD7.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/qFtrRal.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/KzPVkf3.jpg

Tuidjy
11-25-2013, 10:26 PM
Dumbest. Death. Ever. Why the Hell did I decide to try a quest I've never seen with a Command Zero ship?!

By the way, 5000 damage at sector level 68? You may as well just say 'You die...'

http://i.imgur.com/E0Ly92Z.jpg

pieciax
12-21-2013, 09:19 AM
How did u manage to install scaveneger specific komponents on other races ships? Use mod for that or there is an option in game to do that?

Tuidjy
12-22-2013, 12:33 AM
Neither. Some of the ships in this thread may be old enough to predate the patch that restricted scavenger components.

Or you may be looking at Infection and Reaper ships - those are Scavenger subraces, and can use scavenger components.

pieciax
12-22-2013, 11:29 AM
Screen shot was from Brunt ship so i assume it was pre-patch

Kohlenstoff
08-03-2014, 11:26 PM
Here is my current ship. I used the chipping doubling bug (http://www.soldak.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30978&page=3) to increase some stats of some items. I discovered the bug while chipping two valuable powerplants and two good engines in level 200... 3 of em doubled in a row while installing the extremely rare unbreakable chips and i noticed it some minutes after. I wanted not to throw that away (i found until now 10 unbreakable but i spent about 40 million in scavenging chips). Some days later i found and added the next chips and they doubled again, so i continued researching and using the bug on this ship.

Engine and powerplant are unbreakable. Other items are mostly chipped with resists. Atack seems to be low but works well in combination with radar and the (still very outdated!) virus weapons in level 200. Even a Atack of 6000 was enough for level 200. Shield regen was before doubling bug already at 300 (4 shields, 3 regen) and is now high enough to ignore whole fleets. The resists make my ship even 3 times harder and thus the regen 3 times more effective. So i actually dont need the defence.

The ship is still far away from perfection. Shields are just tripled and some items got wrong chips. Im currently working on 4 new weapons (same as used now, but closer to perfection) and replacing one of the crew member with a EM-Resist (need to get the stats from other crew member and crew items).

Here are two videos of this ship in action (Level 200 sector).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Wc0m_2494A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUz1pr0zafE

Tuidjy
08-04-2014, 01:52 PM
Very nice. I tend to look down on Dryad ships, but I guess you really made that shield regeneration work.

Just a question, though. It seems that your ship would get one hell of a benefit from a dynamic frequency generator. Any reason you do not have one?

Kohlenstoff
08-04-2014, 08:27 PM
Very nice. I tend to look down on Dryad ships, but I guess you really made that shield regeneration work.

In games i tend to build independent and enduring. The ship reached the playability of level 200 sectors before i discovered and used the doubling. But i used very rarely consumables,.. mostly when i found some and then mostly to free place in storage. These took more time and were even more costly, than my regen tactics.

The shield repaired allways quite fast. I had just to pause sometimes for some seconds. I carry allways some outdated armorplates in storage. When enemies begin to destroy armor, i replace the destroyed plates. When most or even all plates are "consumed", i repair em on planets. When no planet is there, i hide the ship in dimensional pockets or outside of sectors. Then i install additional armor regen modules and additional powerplants and wait until repair is completed. I use the 5-10 minutes to cleanup my storage and check, what of the loot is the best and worth to keep. This possibility to regen the ship saved often my live or prevented, that i had to give up sectors, when the only planets where far away and the structure already scratched. Since doubling i had no need for the still kept spare armor.

Only real problem of dryad ships is to get a good dryad crew member. But i had the luck to get a 3 stat marine from a quest. Actually quite funny to send a peaceful dryad women into enemy ships :D.

Just a question, though. It seems that your ship would get one hell of a benefit from a dynamic frequency generator. Any reason you do not have one?

Yes, i thought alot about installing the dynamic frequency generator. But it would cost 25 % of the shield regen, because i would have to remove a shield. Actually the amount of shield would be 150 % instead of 200 due removal of one shield! There are just few situations in level 200 sectors, were the advantages of 50 % more shield would be greater, than the advantages of 25 % more regen.

Even if i get another place for this module, i would probably prefer to install one more shield. The next slot would maybe be for the generator.

Tuidjy
08-04-2014, 10:14 PM
I guess that you care more about regeneration than about total HP and weapon damage. I usually mount a dynamic frequency generator for the virus/botnet/beam bonus, so I thought that the shield would be just the icing on the cake.

Are your resistance light components x2, x4, x8, x16 as well?

Kohlenstoff
08-04-2014, 10:55 PM
I guess that you care more about regeneration than about total HP and weapon damage. I usually mount a dynamic frequency generator for the virus/botnet/beam bonus, so I thought that the shield would be just the icing on the cake.

I try allways to let the ship be able to survive as long as possible. On my ship the regen of a additional shield module does it more effective, than the dynamic frequency generator could do. The enemies need a certain time to kill my ship. Actually the health bar falls way slower, when armor begins to get damage. During the time of risky battles more shield is regenerated by the regen of an additional shield module, than the generator would provide, when it would replace one of the the shields. Without the doubling the effect of regen would be much less and more shield would have more value and in this case i would replace the 4th shield module with the generator.

Are your resistance light components x2, x4, x8, x16 as well?

My resistances are also maxed. I chip items also with the resist chips, when i plan to keep them permanently.

x2, x4, x8, x16

The doubling increases the value to a maximum of x 4. At every step only 100 % are added. A module with 100 resist gets 100 additional resist at every step and maxes at 400 resist. With 1900 resist, the ship resists 70 % damage of level 200 enemys (actual resist forumula: resistance/(resistance + 4*(attacker level)) ).

With the resists the ship is effective enough protected to simply ignore the traps. The energy capacity is low and i keep it low because the energy traps have less effect on lower energy capacity (the regen can compensate a loss of 50 per second, but not a loss of 500 per second,... high energy capacity makes energy traps more deadly than all other).

Tuidjy
08-05-2014, 01:47 PM
At the end of the day, it is the resistances that make this ship effective, not the shields. At level 200, there are plenty of enemies which would be crit-hitting you for 11K damage with your defense. It's the resistances that allow the shields to regenerate.

Actually the health bar falls way slower, when armor begins to get damage

This is because you probably do not go down to the armor unless your shields are being depleted by something that your ship does not resist, and that would be Radiation and EM, which happen to be hell on shields. Fortunately, these are exactly the damage types that your armor is strongest against. And, of course, your shield is still regenerating, so it is still absorbing thousands of damage per second.

high energy capacity makes energy traps more deadly than all other

True for aimed-weapons-only ships. This is why I always keep one area-effect weapon on ships with batteries. Even if your battery capacity is 1200, if you have enough targets, you can still easily replenish the 140 or so that the trap drains.

Of course, I only use batteries when I use fighters or Big Bangs. Otherwise, I just rely on the fact that each shot lands, and every shot that lands increases energy instead of draining it.

Kohlenstoff
08-05-2014, 04:55 PM
At the end of the day, it is the resistances that make this ship effective, not the shields. The shields deliver the regen, which is multiplied with the shield regen module percentage. Thats, why i need them. I use only fast recharge shields.

And, of course, your shield is still regenerating, so it is still absorbing thousands of damage per second.

And thats the point.

At level 200, there are plenty of enemies which would be crit-hitting you for 11K damage with your defense. It's the resistances that allow the shields to regenerate.

I found out the dependence of enemy crits on the diffrence between enemy atack and own defence just this morning and so i installed a 6000 defense module (4 x) instead of the holo unit. It reduces the incoming damage alot.

I had really luck, because i found the required grey 1500 defense module (sensor disruptor v) just in time on a planet, which was about to be destroyed by another race, while i was still letting the races improve their relations before selling wars. Good, that i had a look in store before leaving it alone and exploding.

Otherwise, I just rely on the fact that each shot lands, and every shot that lands increases energy instead of draining it.

Yeah, i do this since i found the first energy leechers. In this way i can shoot all 4 energy hungry weapons simultanously (pressing left and right mouse and two keys). The additional regen from the two 4 x powerplants helps alot to keep the flow of energy even more stable.

Tuidjy
08-05-2014, 05:15 PM
Lately I have been playing in order to manipulate race relations, and meet self-imposed diplomacy challenges, so I have been taking ships to level 100, and starting new ones...

But this thread has made me want to make another ship that will aim for sector 200. Probably something I have not played before - a ship with NO aimed weapons of any kind.

Kohlenstoff
08-05-2014, 10:15 PM
I just encountered extreme repair costs of 18.000.000 :eek:. I replaced the resists with optimized ones with minimum powerload. These new ones have a value of 80 million each and this high value seems to cause the high repair cost. I forgot to repair before chipping and so i have now to pay the invoice. And the unbreakable chips do not prevent, that i have to repair them once. Good thing, that i remembered the dryad ability in time. :D I guess i will begin to use the unbreakable chips on more items now.

shahreza
08-05-2014, 11:21 PM
Here is my current ship. I used the chipping doubling bug (http://www.soldak.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30978&page=3) to increase some stats of some items. I discovered the bug while chipping two valuable powerplants and two good engines in level 200... 3 of em doubled in a row while installing the extremely rare unbreakable chips and i noticed it some minutes after. I wanted not to throw that away (i found until now 10 unbreakable but i spent about 40 million in scavenging chips). Some days later i found and added the next chips and they doubled again, so i continued researching and using the bug on this ship.

Engine and powerplant are unbreakable. Other items are mostly chipped with resists. Atack seems to be low but works well in combination with radar and the (still very outdated!) virus weapons in level 200. Even a Atack of 6000 was enough for level 200. Shield regen was before doubling bug already at 300 (4 shields, 3 regen) and is now high enough to ignore whole fleets. The resists make my ship even 3 times harder and thus the regen 3 times more effective. So i actually dont need the defence.

The ship is still far away from perfection. Shields are just tripled and some items got wrong chips. Im currently working on 4 new weapons (same as used now, but closer to perfection) and replacing one of the crew member with a EM-Resist (need to get the stats from other crew member and crew items).

shield regen 2607:eek::eek: how can u got that much:D

Kohlenstoff
08-06-2014, 07:17 AM
You can find sometimes fast charge shields with more than 5 shield regen and you can find shield regen multipliers, which add more than 500 %. When you chip them with doubling method, you get shield regen of 15-18* on every shield and 2000 % on every shield regen multiplier. Without doubling you get with 3 shield regen multipliers and 4 shields about 300 shield regen. With doubling you get with 4 shields and 2 regen multipliers the 2600 and even more. A good third shield regen multiplier would add it up even to 3900! But i suggest to install after second regen module a kinetic resist and when you get more place, you should add explosion, thermal and EM too. Then you can think about another regen again. Radiation damage is rare and chipping 100 resist against radiataion traps should be enough. The resist makes regen way more effective. When you got 2500 shield regen and maxed the best resists, level 200 enemies need to deliver more than 7500 DPS to compensate your shield regen and do real damage. Only few ancients can maybe deliver a little bit more than this.

The required fast charge shields are really rare and the 3 best classes of shields can have such a high value of more than 5.

*shield regen of shields is not doubled. It is calculated in different way, so it increases during doubling not so much as expected!

Razuli
08-09-2014, 04:22 PM
I'm really glad to see that regen builds can work, as that is one I've been wanting to try ever since I unlocked mutants.

One of these days I'll get my Barbarian ship to be able to play in level 200 sectors, I just haven't made a plan yet for how to do it other than to use the fringe service on all of my components so I don't need 5 power plants. The only really notable thing about it is it's way over the top DPS

http://i748.photobucket.com/albums/xx130/Timothy_Malm/ss0009_zps7a645c49.jpg (http://s748.photobucket.com/user/Timothy_Malm/media/ss0009_zps7a645c49.jpg.html)

Kohlenstoff
08-14-2014, 09:03 PM
Here is my second ship. It is modified to do the maximum amount of damage. My decision for reaper was lucky coincidence. I found an level 1 reaper gunner whith another ship, so i decided to built a reaper ship and transferred the gunner with the crew ship stash mod. This gunner did not disappoint me. He is with 51 tactical my best specialist and he leveled allways really fast. The crew consists in this configuration only of gunners, which are currently at levels between 80 and 100. Some parts are not complete, but the most important parts are already visible. I added any kind of active and passive damage increasing!!! Luckily the ships have exactly the same amount of medium slots, as damage increasing items exist. The active damage boosters are on autofire, which gives an nice background sound. The sound of the constant small damage input from one of the boosters is in my ears the beating heart of the ship.

I saw criticals of more than 132.000 from my death ray and more than 272.000 from my rockets. This makes my death ray a real death ray and these omega missles to the real doomsday weapon..... and a good way to a sudden demise, when i shoot one of those at a backlash :eek:.

The rockets and the death ray are still by far not the best (I got better chip sets waiting for completing) and the gunners are still not fully leveled. So i did not waste much time to find out exact amount of maximum damage, because there is still more possible. The damage output cannot be influenced with the chip doubling. The screens of the stats has been taken, while the boosters were active. I can also add a good EM weapon for additional damage. Sadly they are not as easy to scavenge, so i have to search a bit through the sector levels for it.

Here is a video of this ship in action (Level 200 sector): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hxzznFBXiOI
I added also a video of my other ship in action in the posting, where i described it.

username
09-24-2014, 01:39 PM
Heh, there are WAY more DPS-boosting items than there are yellow slots. It looks like you installed some of the weaker picks (Impact Analyzer), and included none of the ROF-boosting items, which would multiplicatively stack. Firing FASTER is also a DPS boost! Finally, your choice of EM weapon doesn't actually contribute to DPSes. I'm sure you could find one that would actually inflict pain. I'm personally trying to break 1 million DPS. Admittedly, past about 100K, the exercise becomes purely masturbatory, as I notice nothing in the universe actually can withstand that level of firepower, and at 100K, even bosses disintegrate before you realize they were there. At a less crazy 30K, you briefly notice that you had a boss in your gunsight, before he explodes. The difference in ship performance between 100K and 500K is pretty much unnoticeable: Everything is instantly vaporized on contact anyway.

In your case, I notice your killing speed is actually considerably lower than my current ship's, which, without buffing, is only around 225K. Once I fire up my buff, I'll jump to about 560K...no difference in killing speed is actually perceived. Your ship, despite its massive cannon, fires too slowly. Mine only fires 10K-average shots, but it machineguns them, mowing down enemies. It also never blows itself up on a Backlash!

neccrow
10-10-2014, 01:39 AM
http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/39729719987751196/751548E531ECA308C22ED015D5335ACDB31718E6/
http://cloud-4.steampowered.com/ugc/39729719987753876/C890E784F0F5EDB065B46D33F936DC79FD561171/

Focus on Shield and regen
shield regen is 13.94/s

Energy is 26/s

I use Legendary computer virus. DPS 170/s but rof is 0.3/s so i get 510dps/s
also it has 400 attack defense debuff so enemy stack up to 1.2k debuff...
so they die really quick...
Rest of mobs fighter's clear for me... so easy to survive..