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View Full Version : [Balance] Chips are great idea, but are hardly worth using as they are


Tuidjy
08-25-2013, 03:45 PM
I have not used any of the chips I have found, and I have played since the extension pack has been released. Why?

Well, first of all, chips drop at a ridiculously low rate. I often go through a level 80+ sector without finding a single chip.

Second, 95% of chips are utter drek. -24 to power load at level 100? +52 max power? 8% projectile speed?

What about the remaining 5%? Well, in most categories, they are simply not as good as what you can get on the items when they drop. Sure, +52% damage on a chip is nice. But that one was scavenged (the only way to actually get useful chips) after dropping 2,000,000 credits. But guess what? Every single one of my weapons already has 60%+ damage modifiers. And chips do not stack with existing modifiers.

So, in order for a chip to be useful. 1. You have to find the one in a hundred that is not useless or worse than the available natural modifiers. 2. You have to find an item that has a chip slot. 3. It must be lacking the respective modifier. 4. It has to still be a highly rare item.

Good luck.

There is one single effective use for chips. ONE SINGLE ONE, and it is damn close to an exploit.

1. Fly to a level 100 Scavenger planet and scavenge heavy armor until you get a Structure 150 component with a chip slot and WITHOUT a durability modifier.
2. Fly to a Lithosoid planet and blow 300,000 credits to enhance it to 3300 durability.
3. Fly to your stash, and pick a worthless chip that you found earlier and kept for a scavenging sample.
4. Fly to a Scavenger planet, and blow a couple of millions until you get a durability 95%+ chip.
5. Slot the chip and receive a 6000+ armor component. It's better than any armor you can get any other way.

There is no other use for chips, unless by an amazing coincidence you find a really good item that has a chip and lacks the modifier you happen to have on a chip. But guess what, you were not lucky, you were unlucky. That item rolled for a rarity high enough to get the chip slot. You would have been better off if, instead of the chip slot, it had rolled for the modifier. Chances are, it would have been more useful than whatever you have on the chip.

RoboAV
08-25-2013, 07:12 PM
Agreed. Have not seen a situation where a chip was more than shrug-worthy useful. Definitely have not had a Kool-Aid man style 'Oh Yeah!' moment with one.

I keep hoping I'll find crew with a chip slot so I can turn them into a Borg.

CaptainWinky
08-25-2013, 08:28 PM
Chips sometimes power up items. I don't mean by giving you the -8 max power load or +10% tweaked find rate or whatever...I've noticed that sometimes putting a chip on an item not only gives you the benefit of the chip but actually changes the item into an artifact and tweaks its other stats accordingly. I threw a random chip onto a space scanner (or whatever the medium slot item that gives pluses to attack and critical hit is) and it turned into an artifact and got a HUGE upgrade, from +1500 attack to +4100 and from +80% crit to +160%.

As for finding chips, I agree that they are really rare. It's worth befriending the Scavengers and saving a junk chip so that you can scavenge for more chips at Scavenger planets whenever you want. That can get expensive fast so be careful.

Valgor
09-04-2013, 06:19 AM
I will repeat here what I suggested some time ago : Chips should come with a set of rather powerful mods, instead of just a single negligible one.
For example, an "Offense Chip" could offer +x% Attack, +y% damage and on top of that, a healthy boost to weapon speed.

What I'd also like to know, has anyone ever found a rare or elite chip?

Tyrax Lightning
09-04-2013, 02:01 PM
I will repeat here what I suggested some time ago : Chips should come with a set of rather powerful mods, instead of just a single negligible one.
For example, an "Offense Chip" could offer +x% Attack, +y% damage and on top of that, a healthy boost to weapon speed.

What I'd also like to know, has anyone ever found a rare or elite chip?
Nope, I haven't.

& I have to agree, that this is a cool idea but needs fleshed out more... i'm having trouble finding stuff to stick found Chips in, & the Chip Bonus is obsolete by the time I do... plus, it's alarming me that sticking a Chip into a Socketed Component seems to keep LOWERING that Component's Retail Value... O_0

Tuidjy
09-04-2013, 02:09 PM
What would make chips worth using on weapons (for me) would be if socketed weapons came without any other modifiers, but had a chance to roll high numbers of sockets. A blank virus with 4 empty sockets would be worth 10,000,000 credits to me, easily.

By the way, I have never seen an item which claimed multiple empty sockets, but I think that I have had items that claimed a free socket right after I socketed something in them. I cannot be sure, because I was messing with crappy chips, and was not playing attention. Lately, I have been socketing chips in really good items to see the effect mentioned by Captain Winky, but I have not had any luck so far.

Forevener
09-04-2013, 02:40 PM
Dear Shadow, please make chips improve existing modifiers further instead of trying to 'override' them.

RoboAV
09-04-2013, 03:07 PM
Chips are divided into types and certain types of chips will only fit into certain types of components. Ok. It makes no sense to install bonus critical hit damage on a power plant, but it does limit how often chips can be useful.

Let's take this further. Only a certain percentage of components have a chip slot. Just because a component has a chip slot does not inherently make it desirable. In my calculations as to whether to install any given component, the chip slot falls into the, 'hey, that's a nice bonus' category. So, among the components I'm going to use in ship, only a wee percentage are going to have chip slots. This further reduces the usefulness of chips.

Be like the squirrel. The drop rate on chips seems to fall off a cliff at some point. So I had better have my cheeks stuffed with chips for when I do find a slotted component.

Also, the bonuses aren't so staggering that I just can't wait to find a component to slot it in.

Take away the little thumbnail on components with an empty slot and just give EVERY component a slot (or two). This will enormously increase the chance that I will actually use a chip and really add my ability to customize a ship. You're still limited by type of bonus vs. type of component and whether the component already has this type of bonus.

CaptainWinky
09-05-2013, 02:22 AM
By the way, I have never seen an item which claimed multiple empty sockets, but I think that I have had items that claimed a free socket right after I socketed something in them. I cannot be sure, because I was messing with crappy chips, and was not playing attention. Lately, I have been socketing chips in really good items to see the effect mentioned by Captain Winky, but I have not had any luck so far.

I think I have seen two or three items with two sockets in all my IotA playtime.

If you were messing around with the chips, could it be that you were trying to put a chip on an item that already has the same modifier as the chip? I agree with Forevener, it would be nice to be able to stack modifiers. It seems like when I find an item with a socket, it already has most of the modifiers that I have chips for.

As for the artifact-making effect, I'll see if I can reproduce it reliably. I have Scavenger in my current sector so I'll find some items with sockets and buy a bunch of chips, then try to get some before-and-after screenshots. Since I can only get it to happen once in a while, it could be a bug of some sort.

CaptainWinky
09-05-2013, 03:51 AM
Okay, I managed to get a couple of unusual upgrades using chips. I went through my stash and found all the old items I had with a chip socket on them, then scavenged a bunch of chips. The majority of items didn't change in any unexpected way. This power plant, however, got a very nice boost from adding a +13 EM Resistance chip.

Before:
http://i.imgur.com/GxxFxgo.jpg

After:
http://i.imgur.com/DWesi8Q.jpg

Not only did I get the effect from the chip, but the max power load was doubled! Notice that the rarity went from "Elite" to "Artifact" as well. I was just messing around with these items but that power plant is a keeper for sure.

Here's a Deadly Aim which I added a reduced power load chip to.

Before:
http://i.imgur.com/fl4wk1p.jpg

After:
http://i.imgur.com/ymDiQLR.jpg

The rarity changed from Very Rare to Elite, but I didn't get any special boosts other than the effect of the chip. Maybe if I'd used a different type of chip I would have gotten a crazy boost to the crit chance on this item.

Most of the items I used had rarities inferior to Elite. Perhaps it's possible that the mega-upgrade only happens when adding a chip to an Elite or better item. I'll keep playing with it and see if I can find a more reliable way to get sick upgrades.

Valgor
09-05-2013, 05:46 AM
[...] that this is a cool idea but needs fleshed out more...

Well, it would work like the gems in Diablo 2. Anytime the player sees an "Offense Chip" dropping, they already know what kind of bonuses it will bring and what types of components it goes in.
There'd be a set number of chip types, and all of them are the same, save for some random differences in the numbers (one Defense Chip might give +10% Defense, while another might give +12% or plus +9%, but every Defense Chip will always have a +Defense% mod). Of course, to spice things up, there could be rare, elite, etc. chips that have additional random mods each on top of the preset ones.

LordGek
09-05-2013, 10:27 AM
Okay, I managed to get a couple of unusual upgrades using chips. I went through my stash and found all the old items I had with a chip socket on them, then scavenged a bunch of chips. The majority of items didn't change in any unexpected way. This power plant, however, got a very nice boost from adding a +13 EM Resistance chip.

Before:
http://i.imgur.com/GxxFxgo.jpg

After:
http://i.imgur.com/DWesi8Q.jpg

Not only did I get the effect from the chip, but the max power load was doubled! Notice that the rarity went from "Elite" to "Artifact" as well. I was just messing around with these items but that power plant is a keeper for sure.

Here's a Deadly Aim which I added a reduced power load chip to.

Before:
http://i.imgur.com/fl4wk1p.jpg

After:
http://i.imgur.com/ymDiQLR.jpg

The rarity changed from Very Rare to Elite, but I didn't get any special boosts other than the effect of the chip. Maybe if I'd used a different type of chip I would have gotten a crazy boost to the crit chance on this item.

Most of the items I used had rarities inferior to Elite. Perhaps it's possible that the mega-upgrade only happens when adding a chip to an Elite or better item. I'll keep playing with it and see if I can find a more reliable way to get sick upgrades.

While I make no claims on understanding the wonders of rarities and effects, could it simply be that a core aspect of rarity is simply how many modifying extra effects it adds? So that simply by having, in that first case, a fourth modifying effect it is now considered an artifact? Doesn't explain the doubling, but maybe artifacts double their primary effect?

CaptainWinky
09-08-2013, 06:34 AM
While I make no claims on understanding the wonders of rarities and effects, could it simply be that a core aspect of rarity is simply how many modifying extra effects it adds? So that simply by having, in that first case, a fourth modifying effect it is now considered an artifact? Doesn't explain the doubling, but maybe artifacts double their primary effect?

With the help of Utopians' new socket-adding service and Scavengers' chip-finding service I've been playing around with this some more. It seems to back up your theory. Adding an effect from a chip bumps the rarity and in some cases that doubles the primary effect of the item. I've seen it when going from Very Rare to Elite and in a few cases from Elite to Artifact. I have not yet tried bumping an item from Very Rare->Elite->Artifact->Legendary to see if it can be doubled more than once.

You need a lot of money to burn if you're going to add a socket to an item though. It took me a lot of tries for some of the rare items I was messing with earlier. Considering how OP this could be, I think that's more than fair. I spent about half a million credits with the Utopians when I was adding sockets to four of my rare and elite items.

Buffbot
09-11-2013, 12:58 AM
I finally got a chip to double up the load of a power plant, but while the tooltip showed it now had double the power, only half the amount (the original value) was applied to my ship when installed.

- The original power load value of the module was 1391. After adding a chip (+20% component find chance) it jumped up a rarity and doubled the power load value to 2782.

- My initial total power load was 3459/3474, after the module was chipped and I reinstalled it on my ship my power load was still 3459/3474.

Are you all noticing the same thing? As in, is this a purely visual bug?

CaptainWinky
09-11-2013, 04:03 AM
I finally got a chip to double up the load of a power plant, but while the tooltip showed it now had double the power, only half the amount (the original value) was applied to my ship when installed.

- The original power load value of the module was 1391. After adding a chip (+20% component find chance) it jumped up a rarity and doubled the power load value to 2782.

- My initial total power load was 3459/3474, after the module was chipped and I reinstalled it on my ship my power load was still 3459/3474.

Are you all noticing the same thing? As in, is this a purely visual bug?

I double-checked the artifact power plant I posted previously and it definitely provides 3006 max power load. Try saving and reloading...it could be another case of the game not updating the effects of the item correctly.

Tyrax Lightning
09-11-2013, 02:29 PM
Chips could use a bit more Drop Rate... Borg has reached Level 100 now, & I swear it seems like no Chips have ever dropped from lvl 50 onwards. The last Chip that has dropped for me has a Level Requirement of Lvl 45... :(

CaptainWinky
09-11-2013, 10:38 PM
Chips could use a bit more Drop Rate... Borg has reached Level 100 now, & I swear it seems like no Chips have ever dropped from lvl 50 onwards. The last Chip that has dropped for me has a Level Requirement of Lvl 45... :(

Chips seem to drop the most at very early levels, then they become extremely rare after that. Scavengers are my main source for chips even though it's kinda spendy.

Buffbot
09-11-2013, 11:28 PM
I double-checked the artifact power plant I posted previously and it definitely provides 3006 max power load. Try saving and reloading...it could be another case of the game not updating the effects of the item correctly.

Yeah, that worked. Thanks. I hadn't thought to try that before posting.

I agree the drops at higher levels are a bit sparse. Since 1.024 I played through 6 galaxies with my level 70+ and never saw a single chip. Then started a new Scav pilot yesterday and found 4 in the first system - which I then stashed for my other pilots to copy and use.

sea
09-15-2013, 12:17 AM
I would rather see more chips that give flat +% bonuses to the attributes of items, or special effects that scale off of the item's level correctly, instead of a fixed +x bonus.

The chance for an item to have a chip slot also seems really low, in my experience.

RoboAV
10-03-2013, 03:29 PM
Before the Utopian's ability, it was rare to find a slotted component that I wanted to use, to the point where I had written the entire system off as not worth my time or inventory slots. The ability to improve components I already want to use makes chips worthwhile. The chance to double the main stat of an item i.e. power load on generators, thrust on engine, etc.. has made the chip mechanic integral to how I currently play.
I always have chips in reserve, now. I keep components on a speculative basis. When I find the Utopians in a sector, I end up spending ridiculous amounts of credits trying to get that elusive stat doubling.
How does the stat doubling work? Does anyone know? I suspect that there is a chance that this happens whenever you slot a chip, but the odds of this happening goes up with the rarity of the item. Can you double the primary stat more than once? Does it matter what kind of bonus you are adding?
However, for non-weapon components, the stats that the chip adds are mostly incidental. Either the additional stat is relatively worthless- +4 Thermal Resistance anyone? or something I'm just not paying attention to- +16% Find Extra Credits. Best case scenario is Thrust or Attack or Power Load which are always useful even if the amount of the bonus is negligible. The doubling of the main stat is the reason to use this system and not the bonuses that are on the chips themselves.
Does anyone use this system differently? Have more insight into how the doubling works?

Tuidjy
10-03-2013, 07:14 PM
Nowadays I use chips as the one and only way of equipping my ships. I think that I have spent at least 100M credits with DPAKOH B MPAKA on improving equipment. Even if my estimate is off, the game values that ship's equipment at over 40M credits.

I have never, not once, seen stat doubling.

This is not to say that it does not exist - I am sure than CaptainWinky and Buffbot have seen it. But it is either extremely rare, or it cannot happen to components which are already at the high range of their class.

To address your other point, yes, I do think that chips matter for all components, not just weapons. I don't have to convince anyone that it matters for weapons - after all, I have used chips to increase weapons' DPS by nearly an order of magnitude, and posted screenshots of it.

But for other components, there are bonuses that are actually worth it.

0. Attack. After level 100, or with a Command Zero ship, you live and die by your attack, and you never have enough of it. You can, theoretically, get over 300 attack on every one of your components. I have yet to do it, but I am certainly going for it. For a Command Zero ship, that would be about 3000 extra attack.

1. Power. Every component can have it power consumption reduced by about 100. Do this after you have used the Fringe to get rid of 75% of the original consumption, and you end up with level 100 ships with more than twenty components which together use less that 1000 power load.

2. Thrust. Most of my command Zero ships do not have any Helm skill, and do not mount any thrusters, because it is relatively easy to get enough thrust from chips. I have never managed to get a Command Zero ship over level 80 or so, but at that point, I can get to 1/5 weight/thrust ratio on chips alone.

3. Drop/Tweaked chance. Those 30-40 percent do add up. Combined with Marines, you can get to the point where killing a single boss brings more, and much better loot than getting 5 reward chests.

Tyrax Lightning
10-15-2013, 02:42 AM
Why does Scavenging Chips at a Scavenger Planet have such wild randomization in Chip Level, Bonus Strength, & what Bonus the Chip will have? I finally got to try this out at a Scavenger Planet & tried to start with a +Weapon Speed Chip, & after many many tries, got lots of stuff other than a +Weapon Speed Chip. :(

Plus, is it intended for the Pulsar Generator Component to be disallowed from having +Minimum Damage, +Damage, +Maximum Damage, & +Weapon Speed Chips Socketed into it? & does this apply to all Special Weapon type Weapons? (I got a Socketed Pulsar Generator via Scavenge at the same Scavenger Planet & was trying to get my damage back on it... No go on being able to do it... :()

Tuidjy
10-15-2013, 04:40 AM
When I scavenge for chips, I do not look for a particular chip. Right before I leave a sector, I spend ALL of my cash over 10,000,000 credits at a Fringe/Lithosoid/Uthopian/Scavenger planet. If I am scavenging for chips, I do it until I run out of cash, and retrieve all the good chips. My stash is full of 'good' chips, and I use the lesser ones immediately when the opportunity presents itself to improve any of the components I have. As for the best chips, I wait for a good component to drop, and then I take it through the Fringe->Lithoisoid->Uthopian->Scavenger conveyer.

---

Unfortunately, special weapons do not benefit from the damage bonuses, which is why I have not used one since I discovered the joys of slotting. But remember that EM weapons in general, and geo-magnetic storms in particular are not special weapons. Geo-magnetic storms are awesome once you mod them, much better than Pulsar generators would be if you were allowed to customize them.

This said, I believe that special weapons do not accept chips because their damage is computed from other rules than the ones governing standard weapons, and that Shadow would have to put quite a bit of work into each single special weapon to make it work with chips.

Tyrax Lightning
10-15-2013, 02:44 PM
Ahh, in that case, i'll have to consider firing my Hellfire & Pulsar Generator from Borg's Weapon List. :(

Perhaps i'll replace the Pulsar Generator with a Weapon Speed Boost Component to reinforce the Geomagnetic Storm's power & compensate for the nerf, but the Hellfire's gonna be a head scratcher...

Oh, if ya got a Weapon Component with +Attack Speed & a +Attack Speed Component equipped at the same time, will their effects stack, & if yes, additively or multiplicatively?

Many thanks for your help. :) I definitely need it... I tried out a Lvl 200 Sector on Borg because I forgot to think, & I died over 10 times in less than 4 rl minutes, faced the threat of Economic Loss, then fled the sector... tail between my legs yelping like a whooped dog... :o Outta the loot that dropped from the couple enemies I managed to kill, I didn't even get anything useful for the trouble. :(

Tuidjy
10-15-2013, 03:30 PM
Hmm, Tyrax, with the latest patch, my best ship is NOT comfortable at sector level 148, let alone higher. It does fine against 99% of the enemies but there are others that can kill it if they surprise it. Running away from sector level 200 in 1.028 is nothing to be ashamed off.

And there is no reason to expect better loot at level 200. As far as I can tell, loot is very much the same at any level after 105 or so. You can get more cash, because the races are able to generate more, that is it.

As for the weapons, yes, speed from chips and speed from components stacks, and appears to stack multiplicatively, but it does not really matter, because:
1. Only weapons bound to the right mouse button chainfire and autoswitch targets when held down.
2. Only some weapons (the geo-magnetic storm generator doesn't seem to be one) fire repeatedly when the mouse is held down.
3. The fire rate is ultimately limited by the mouse sampling rate, and that is controlled by the game, even if you unfetter the mouse driver.

So it is pretty easy to get the GMSG to fire as fast as you can click, and it's devastating enough.

Tyrax Lightning
10-15-2013, 06:13 PM
Hmm, Tyrax, with the latest patch, my best ship is NOT comfortable at sector level 148, let alone higher. It does fine against 99% of the enemies but there are others that can kill it if they surprise it. Running away from sector level 200 in 1.028 is nothing to be ashamed off.

And there is no reason to expect better loot at level 200. As far as I can tell, loot is very much the same at any level after 105 or so. You can get more cash, because the races are able to generate more, that is it.

As for the weapons, yes, speed from chips and speed from components stacks, and appears to stack multiplicatively, but it does not really matter, because:
1. Only weapons bound to the right mouse button chainfire and autoswitch targets when held down.
2. Only some weapons (the geo-magnetic storm generator doesn't seem to be one) fire repeatedly when the mouse is held down.
3. The fire rate is ultimately limited by the mouse sampling rate, and that is controlled by the game, even if you unfetter the mouse driver.

So it is pretty easy to get the GMSG to fire as fast as you can click, and it's devastating enough.
Huh... that's odd... My Geomagnetic Storm does auto-fire as the Cooldown on its Timer allows when I hold my Right Mouse Button down with it in use in one of my Right Click Slots. :confused:

My Mouse is this exact Model here (http://www.gigabyte.us/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3314#utility), except bought off NewEgg. Wonder if that's making any difference. The DPI I use it at most often is 1600 DPI. If I had known it was so possible to overshoot DPI power when I got this Mouse, I woulda got a different Model... Guess live & learn is the only thing I can do. :o

Tuidjy
10-15-2013, 06:46 PM
Hmm... I have not tried a quick firing geo-magnetic storm in a few patches. Last time I had one combined with a ton of weapon speed components, I needed to repeatedly click for it to fire. Maybe the patch that slowed it down made it autofire?

In any case, this is great news for unaimed builds. Not that I have one going, at this time.

Tyrax Lightning
10-16-2013, 01:59 PM
Hmm... I have not tried a quick firing geo-magnetic storm in a few patches. Last time I had one combined with a ton of weapon speed components, I needed to repeatedly click for it to fire. Maybe the patch that slowed it down made it autofire?

In any case, this is great news for unaimed builds. Not that I have one going, at this time.
Huh... i've never known the Geomagnetic Storm to not Auto-Fire. Maybe ya found a way to lower its Cooldown Timer so hard that ya broke something & made the Auto-Fire unable to keep up with ya? :D