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ebarstad
02-22-2014, 01:38 PM
After playing for far too many hours over the last week or so, I'm curious to know if diplomacy values can be modded at all. Specifically, I'm thinking of how negative and positive rumours work. For example, would it be possible to adjust how much of an effect negative and positive rumours have as well as their price? If so, where can these values be found? I poked through the various Assets files, but nothing stood out as being what I was after.

joku
02-22-2014, 03:33 PM
Under systems.gdb.

About halfway through the file you'll see a section pertaining to rumors, propaganda, espionage, and sabotage. It looks like you can change the cost of rumors, how long they take, and their chance of success, but it doesn't look like you can change how much they affect relations.

ebarstad
02-22-2014, 03:38 PM
Under systems.gdb.

About halfway through the file you'll see a section pertaining to rumors, propaganda, espionage, and sabotage. It looks like you can change the cost of rumors, how long they take, and their chance of success, but it doesn't look like you can change how much they affect relations.

Thanks for that. I also found reference to rumours in Races.gdb:

PositiveRumorChanceStartX 45.0
PositiveRumorChanceStartY 0.0
PositiveRumorChanceEndX 100.0
PositiveRumorChanceEndY 2.0

NegativeRumorChanceStartX 0.0
NegativeRumorChanceStartY 3.0
NegativeRumorChanceEndX 50.0
NegativeRumorChanceEndY 0.0

Perhaps this is where the relations stuff is kept, but it's hard to tell based on the names.

EDIT: It looks like the "Y" values are what I'm after, but then I don't know what the "X" values are.

If I'm understanding correctly, all Rumour types (quick, planned, or crafted) can result in the same range of relationship change, it's just that the chance of success and cost are different. I think I'm definitely going to play around with these numbers, but I'd really like to know how the "X" values are used.

EDIT: Just to confuse things, I also found these values in Races.gdb:

RelationChangeMinStartedPositiveRumor -0.5
RelationChangeMinStartedPositiveRumor -1.0

RelationChangeMinStartedNegativeRumor -2.0
RelationChangeMinStartedNegativeRumor -3.0

RelationChangeMinPositiveRumor 2.0
RelationChangeMaxPositiveRumor 4.0

RelationChangeMinNegativeRumor -2.5
RelationChangeMaxNegativeRumor -5.0

Hmm, not sure what to think, now.

ebarstad
02-22-2014, 06:43 PM
Ok, so I think it's working on a basic level, for the player anyways. Not sure how these changes will be handled by the AI. Anyways, here are some of the changes. I'd love to get some balance feedback if anyone's interested (original values are in comments):


RumorCostPerLevelQuick 400.0 // 20.0
RumorCostPerLevelPlanned 800.0 // 40.0
RumorCostPerLevelWellCrafted 1200.0 // 60.0

RumorChanceQuick 0.20 // 0.5
RumorChancePlanned 0.5 // 0.7
RumorChanceWellCrafted 0.9 // 0.9

RumorTimeQuick 3.0 //1.5
RumorTimePlanned 4.0 // 2.25
RumorTimeWellCrafted 6.0 // 3.0

HireSpyPositiveRumorCostMult 3.0 // 5.0
HireSpyNegativeRumorCostMult 3.0 // 5.0

RelationChangeMinStartedPositiveRumor -2.5 // -0.5
RelationChangeMinStartedPositiveRumor -5.0 // -1.0

RelationChangeMinStartedNegativeRumor -10.0 // -2.0
RelationChangeMinStartedNegativeRumor -15.0 // -3.0

RelationChangeMinPositiveRumor 20.0 // 2.0
RelationChangeMaxPositiveRumor 40.0 // 4.0

RelationChangeMinNegativeRumor -25.0 // -2.5
RelationChangeMaxNegativeRumor -50.0 // -5.0


I basically want to make Diplomacy a more viable option, but at the same time there should be a good amount of risk and reward. So, I adjusted the cost to be 20x more expensive but made the relationship change 10x larger. I also changed the chance value for each type of rumour since each type can have the same effect on the relationship. Now, a "quick" rumour is more of a "hail mary" 20%, "planned" is 50/50, and "well crafted" remains at 90%.

Hiring a spy from Shadow is now 3x more expensive instead of the default 5x, but it's a sure thing.

I'm toying with the idea of making the time it takes to deploy the rumours quite a bit longer (e.g., 20-30 seconds for a well-crafted rumour), just to add to the gravity of the event, but I'm not sure about this.

The whole impetus is to get away from having to spam the Rumor button over and over. You do it one time and the result will be profound, but likely so will the monetary cost. And if it backfires, there could be a significant penalty -- which I think there should be in matters of interstellar diplomacy. :) As I said, feedback welcome.

EDIT: I can't figure out what level RumorCostPerLevelQuick etc. use to determine the cost of the rumours. I just started a level 4 world with a level 6 ship. I flew to the nearest populated planet (Utopian) and clicked on the Rumor button. Here are the values it gave me:

Quick: 1858
Planned: 4228
Well Crafted: 7109

EDIT 2: Looks like the level is the Sector Level. However, there's definitely another number in the mix somewhere, but I have no idea what it is.

Shadow
02-25-2014, 11:59 AM
EDIT 2: Looks like the level is the Sector Level. However, there's definitely another number in the mix somewhere, but I have no idea what it is.

If I remember correctly, level should be the race level which does start at the sector level.

For the PositiveRumorChanceStartX / PositiveRumorChanceEndX stuff, X is basically their relation with the other race. So this:

PositiveRumorChanceStartX 45.0
PositiveRumorChanceStartY 0.0
PositiveRumorChanceEndX 100.0
PositiveRumorChanceEndY 2.0

means that they will only start positive rumors about someone that they have relations about 45.0 with, but it gets more and more common towards relations of 100.0.

ebarstad
02-25-2014, 03:58 PM
If I remember correctly, level should be the race level which does start at the sector level.

For the PositiveRumorChanceStartX / PositiveRumorChanceEndX stuff, X is basically their relation with the other race. So this:

PositiveRumorChanceStartX 45.0
PositiveRumorChanceStartY 0.0
PositiveRumorChanceEndX 100.0
PositiveRumorChanceEndY 2.0

means that they will only start positive rumors about someone that they have relations about 45.0 with, but it gets more and more common towards relations of 100.0.

Thanks for the clarification.