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Bluddy
01-23-2011, 12:16 AM
Some people have reported that other than armor not counting enough (which is being worked on), there was a problem that magic stops being effective after a certain level. Do people feel this has been fixed?

abomination5
01-23-2011, 12:45 AM
I've always found magic extremely strong. Past a certain level you need at least one good cast time reduction item though.

Nobear
01-23-2011, 03:03 AM
My 68 Wizard with maxed-out DPS skills feels about the same before and after the armor/resistances change. However, I would expect the situation to be improved for classes with weaker magic, or a more balanced build with less DPS focus.

It will be interesting to see, for instance, if my 27 Priest is more viable now. Before, since I was focused evenly among healing, buffs and damage, my damage spell was barely able to cut through resistances at all, and thus did close to 0 damage. I was literally better off hitting individual guys with my staff, than spamming my AOE damage spell. Now I'd expect the spell to be more effective since all spells are reduced by a certain (relatively low) percentage now, but I haven't tested it out yet.

Abom I think is the one with the frost mage/sorcerer hybrid with whom I've played and seen steamroll everything in his path at level 100. Maybe I'm confusing him with Stardusts though, I forget.

Shadow
01-24-2011, 10:27 AM
Patch 1.015 should have reduced monsters resistances quite a bit, so I'm also curious how people are finding the magic balance now.

abomination5
01-24-2011, 10:49 AM
Actually, I did notice that my spells were stronger after the patch. I thought it was just me!

Bluddy
01-24-2011, 11:52 AM
My 19th level necromancer is faring quite well against monsters of his level after the patch, except for the occasional hellish level and superboss. Since I'm playing at normal difficulty, I consider this to be a good difficulty curve so far. Oh I should mention that he uses lightning chain as his main attack.

EternalChampion
01-24-2011, 02:28 PM
Yeah, my lvl 24 Reaver/Shaman hybrid can one or two-shot even the biggest baddest bosses as he's usually on a dexterity or strength potion and then cast Champion and then Ravage away. It's *almost* anticlimactic. Luckily, there's some super fast monsters that can sneak-up before I can magic-up and do the same to me. :o

The only other Shaman skill I use is Holy Fire which is incredibly handy for long distance pyrotechnics (setting barrels and doors on fire, etc.) that weaken and/or kill hapless fiends that are trapped. The only Reaver skills I've bothered with are Two-Handed Mastery, Ravage, Breach, and Plate.

Of course having Grel's Axe (+75% Crushing Blow, +75% Magic Crushing Blow among lots of other things to go with it's 31.8 DPS) has helped. Most every strike is a crushing blow or deep wounds. And Din forbid there be a Life Steal obelisk nearby. :D

DeathKnight1728
01-24-2011, 02:34 PM
Do you use hardiness as well? Ive played a weaponmaster/shaman and they are awesome and very similar to your build.

Bluddy
01-24-2011, 02:40 PM
One or two shot the biggest baddest bosses? That's extreme. Perhaps some nerfing is needed for that build :)

DeathKnight1728
01-24-2011, 02:43 PM
Not really. The shaman only gives the reaver the ability to take almost any hit. Hardiness is a buff that shamans get that almost doubles your life which makes warriors insanely powerful. It also makes it so you dont have to add as much health every level because you have the buff. This only gives the reaver more chance to survive, not more killing power.

abomination5
01-24-2011, 02:45 PM
Any chance of getting magic crush as a function of spirit? Right now that stat might as well be removed since it is essentially meaningless.

DeathKnight1728
01-24-2011, 02:53 PM
That would be a good idea since you dont see it often and might make spirit useful.

Nobear
01-24-2011, 04:30 PM
Now that I've been playing my (now 72) Wizard more, I do recognize that I've turned into quite a killing machine. I no longer have minute-long bossfights where each arctic shard would take away like 1% of their health, and with AOE I am steamrolling stuff.

It's much more balanced now for melee vs casters. If anything, I'd say to buff rogues while keeping warriors the same. My 100 warrior has enough armor and utility from Block etc. to still be badass now that he does less damage. My 100 rogue, on the other hand, is hurting even with a ridiculous 300+ DPS dagger, because now that she doesn't one-shot hard stuff any more, she dies way too often because she can't go toe-to-toe with throngs of hard-hitters for long. Even with running and kiting or stealthing, you can't always do that because there isn't always a clear place to run, and Smoke Screen has a 45 sec cooldown too. Those things were kind of balanced when you could one shot hard stuff, but no longer. I'd suggest starting by doubling Death Blow's poison component, or else making it based on your melee hit's damage. At low levels it's a significant AOE source, but at high levels it's a joke and takes next to nothing off enemies' HP. Many people go with Lethal Blow instead just because the poison only serves to break Smoke Screen.

DeathKnight1728
01-24-2011, 04:47 PM
I always thought deathblow to be useless to lethal blow. Mostly because lethal blow you get at 1 point and still does more damage, more crit, and the same attack bonus than death blow. However, deathblow is .3 seconds longer and damage goes up more per level, eventually coming out higher than lethal. In essence the damage is not the problem. With my assassin/icemage who is retired, i usually 1 hit ko all normal, most champions, and 2-3 hit ko bosses. Those 2 attacks are really the hardest hitting attacks in the game. The only other one that comes out pretty high is precise strike for the assassin. But that one is only useful if mixed with a demonologist.

Like you said, the poison damage should be better because as it sits right now the warrior is the best fighter in the game due to aoe asskickory. While the rogue can 1 shot eliminate bosses through stealth+lethal blow+dagger mastery, the warrior can take out many enemies and by the time the boss gets ready to fight, he is dead to the onslaught. 1 on 1 is fair, 1 on 10-not.

EternalChampion
01-24-2011, 08:50 PM
It's Champion + Ravage that gives the killing power. :)

EternalChampion
01-24-2011, 08:56 PM
Any chance of getting magic crush as a function of spirit? Right now that stat might as well be removed since it is essentially meaningless.

The passive skills (already maxed, top row of skill sheet) Power Bonus and Mana Regen Bonus both make use of points put into Spirit. Giving your character more mana and faster mana regen. I rarely need to use mana potions unless I'm being mana-stolen.

EternalChampion
01-24-2011, 08:59 PM
Do you use hardiness as well? Ive played a weaponmaster/shaman and they are awesome and very similar to your build.

I do now. ;) I totally missed that skill!

Nobear
01-24-2011, 09:04 PM
Eternal, the mana regen you get from spirit or int is a drop in the bucket compared to what you get from mana regen items. Keep an eye out for items which grant anywhere between 3 and 21 mana regen/sec. I think I found a mail helmet with 27, though I'm not sure what character I'll use that with.

EternalChampion
01-25-2011, 02:47 AM
Eternal, the mana regen you get from spirit or int is a drop in the bucket compared to what you get from mana regen items. Keep an eye out for items which grant anywhere between 3 and 21 mana regen/sec. I think I found a mail helmet with 27, though I'm not sure what character I'll use that with.

Nice! thanks for the heads up! :)

EternalChampion
01-28-2011, 07:15 PM
It's Champion + Ravage that gives the killing power. :)

Here's what my character looks like with a +45 Dexterity Potion and the Champion Skill activated. I think that's pretty good for a lvl33 character?

I found a 2-handed artifact sword "Lich Lamer" which is also an ego weapon. I've only had it since yesterday, but it's leveled up to 61.7 DPS with 110% critical and 110% magic critical, 54-136 damage without Champion activated. When I cast Champion, the DPS goes up to 389.6, 199-507 damage. My Attack becomes 2621(!) and Defense is 628. They are 864 and 400 respectively without Champion.

Add Ravage to the mix and 2 Handed Mastery and Breach and this Reaver/Shaman becomes a meat grinder. :eek:

My Reaver skills are Ravage (7), 2-Handed Weapon Mastery (6), Breach (2), Plate (1)
My Shaman skills are Champion (7), Hardiness (2), Holy Fire (2)

I'm thinking of pumping Holy Fire even more because it's long distance death-trap usefulness is awesome, and there was a world of difference between 1st and 2nd levels of power. Hardiness doesn't seem to do much... more experiments are needed.

DeathKnight1728
01-28-2011, 08:14 PM
I'm thinking of pumping Holy Fire even more because it's long distance death-trap usefulness is awesome, and there was a world of difference between 1st and 2nd levels of power. Hardiness doesn't seem to do much... more experiments are needed.

Trust me, hardiness helps you stay alive and will be your best friend now and later on. With your build, 1 point of hardiness gives you 35 health. If you put 20 points into it, thats somewhere around 700 health!

Nobear
01-28-2011, 09:45 PM
Remember that hardiness is not a passive bonus, it's a spell that you have to cast on yourself or others. If you accidentally have someone else selected, including an NPC, you will buff them and not you (very useful for escorts or protecting essential NPCs from heavy invasions). Look at your health number in the character screen before and after you buff yourself to make sure it's working, and remember to keep reapplying it.

Think about how good a value it is. When you level, you start by gaining 1 skill point and eventually gain 20+ per level. If you keep putting points in hardiness as long as the cost of doing so is less than the points you gained for that level, it will be equivalent to tripling the stat points you gain for those levels. Instead of 5 stat points per level, you're gaining 15, and 10 of those you can give to other NPCs and players too!

Bluddy
01-29-2011, 01:20 PM
Not to ruin the party anything, but if hardiness is such a good choice, maybe it's TOO good. Maybe it should be nerfed somewhat to preserve balance?

abomination5
01-29-2011, 01:54 PM
Plate armor can be far more powerful in the right situation. You can wear plate without investing any skill points by getting one rank, equipping and then removing the rank.

My ice mage/defender has 2519 hit points. Wearing cloth he has 32% armor, while wearing plate he has 56% armor. That's the equivalent of 605 hit points against physical damage for absolutely no skill points. On top of that, defender gets block, which is an awesome defensive skill. Shaman with the right character combination is good but it isn't the clear winner in every situation.

Max_Powers
01-29-2011, 02:34 PM
Plate armor can be far more powerful in the right situation. You can wear plate without investing any skill points by getting one rank, equipping and then removing the rank.

My ice mage/defender has 2519 hit points. Wearing cloth he has 32% armor, while wearing plate he has 56% armor. That's the equivalent of 605 hit points against physical damage for absolutely no skill points. On top of that, defender gets block, which is an awesome defensive skill. Shaman with the right character combination is good but it isn't the clear winner in every situation.

So I am curious if you think a Shaman/Defender would be a good character? I have started one, but was worried about the lacking of offensive spells/skills.

abomination5
01-29-2011, 02:40 PM
So I am curious if you think a Shaman/Defender would be a good character? I have started one, but was worried about the lacking of offensive spells/skills.

I'm sure others have their own opinion, but I wouldn't play any character without an AOE damage skill. The best defense is a good offense in Din's.

EDIT: Reaver might be a better alternative. You keep plate, lose block but gain ravage. Haven't tried it myself though. In my experience thus far I have found plain warrior to be the best melee build. You get whirlwind and cleave plus a number of great defensive options. You can alternate between the whirlwind and cleave with no attack delay.