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Renevaras
01-23-2011, 07:17 PM
I was wondering whether this is an intended consequence of tornadoes?
I have had my last 6 villages destroyed by them. I can't finish more than a handful of quests before multiple torandoes ravage my town killing eveyone and giving me the failure message. 6 new worlds and the same thing.

At least if there was a quest to stop some sort of weather machine to turn them off, I might have a chance. As it exists now as soon as I see, "a tornado has touched down in town,' I know I have little hope.

Any suggestions?

PixelLord
01-23-2011, 08:10 PM
I'd wait for the next patch. I'm sure they'll be adjusted. I just kept feeding the warmaster food so I didn't lose the town until they finally stopped. Finally won the town. I'm sure they won't be as devastating in the next patch (I hope). ...But you've had a very unlikely string of them in a row. Your luck has to change as I'm sure it will.

Ghost Matter
01-23-2011, 08:14 PM
I've had it happen on loading 2 existing towns, lots of tornadoe come and ravage everything and then they don't come back... It's weird. I hope the new patch comes out soon, I can't play the game as it is, needing to babysit the townspeople.

At least I got a chuckle when someone named "Slow" died.

Bluddy
01-24-2011, 02:11 AM
Not sure what the purpose of a tornado is. Might as well have lightning hit and kill an NPC, or have an NPC die of dysentery. It's a completely random thing that doesn't give us choices, consequences, or emergent gameplay.

spacehog
01-24-2011, 04:41 AM
I've had several tornadoes touch down in several towns, but haven't lost a single town member to them yet. Guess I've gotten lucky.

Shadow
01-24-2011, 10:12 AM
That will teach me to fix bugs. :) I fixed it so tornadoes actually will show up in town when they say they do and now they are killing everything in sight. I'll tone them down soon.

ebarstad
01-24-2011, 11:03 AM
Not sure what the purpose of a tornado is. Might as well have lightning hit and kill an NPC, or have an NPC die of dysentery. It's a completely random thing that doesn't give us choices, consequences, or emergent gameplay.

I think random occurrences beyond the player's control are a staple (if not the definition) of emergent gameplay -- they're part of what makes the world come alive. What breaks the immersion is that the NPCs currently don't react to the tornadoes. But it's still beta, so I'm sure the things will continue to evolve.

Personally, I love how Shadow is experimenting with the expansion, fleshing out the world and NPCs. I'm a newcomer to Din's Curse, but it has already eclipsed the two other aRPGs I've played most -- Torchlight and Titan's Quest -- simply by creating the illusion of a living world.

Chex Warrior
01-24-2011, 11:49 AM
I think ebarstad is absolutely correct, things beyond player control do make the game much more exciting. Plus, Din's is the only ARPG I've played which seems to follow roguelikes closely (even more if you play on HC), a staple of roguelikes is getting screwed every once and a while.

(I'm not saying that Shadow shouldn't tone down the tornadoes but the chance for devastation should always be there).

Bluddy
01-24-2011, 11:50 AM
I think random occurrences beyond the player's control are a staple (if not the definition) of emergent gameplay -- they're part of what makes the world come alive. What breaks the immersion is that the NPCs currently don't react to the tornadoes. But it's still beta, so I'm sure the things will continue to evolve.

Personally, I love how Shadow is experimenting with the expansion, fleshing out the world and NPCs. I'm a newcomer to Din's Curse, but it has already eclipsed the two other aRPGs I've played most -- Torchlight and Titan's Quest -- simply by creating the illusion of a living world.

Not sure about you defining emergent gameplay as random uncontrollable events. I see emergent gameplay as defining rules for behavior, and then having agents act out those rules in completely unexpected ways that nevertheless make sense. These are the kinds of things that happen in real life so they're very cool when they happen in a game.

What would be cool for example is if a vendor who owns too much metal (e.g. weaponmasters) would then be zapped by lightning more often than other townies. If there's a weather machine that happens to be producing lightning, you could buy as much metal as possible off of him to have a better chance of keeping him alive.

Completely random death events are ok and can be exciting when they insert an extra surprising challenge sometimes, but they have limited appeal in my opinion.

None of this is meant to criticize Shadow's work. I finally got the expansion and it's AMAZING in my opinion.

Shadow
01-24-2011, 12:01 PM
You do have some control over tornadoes. For example a weather machine will make them a lot worse, so destroy the machine and your tornado problem goes away.

Well that's the theory at least, right now there's just too many of them in general.

Bluddy
01-24-2011, 12:04 PM
Seems to me that tornadoes should be *extremely* rare unless there's a weather machine or there's some tornado modifier on the town. Maybe that's already the case though -- haven't seen any myself.

Also Shadow did you see the bug in the other thread with quests being resolved instantaneously?

ebarstad
01-24-2011, 12:08 PM
Not sure about you defining emergent gameplay as random uncontrollable events. I see emergent gameplay as defining rules for behavior, and then having agents act out those rules in completely unexpected ways that nevertheless make sense. These are the kinds of things that happen in real life so they're very cool when they happen in a game.

Yes, I think this is a more accurate definition of emergent gameplay; it's primarily what I meant but didn't properly express.

I agree that completely random deaths would be tiresome. I think what we're both looking for (hopefully I'm not putting words in your mouth) is a more obvious sense of "cause and effect." I like the tornado idea, but I'd prefer if it were tied to a weather machine, for example, or some other dungeon-related/traitor-related source. EDIT: Posted at the same time as Shadow -- nice to see that the tornadoes can be tied to a weather machine.

It would also be cool if NPCs reacted to weather (esp. lightning and tornadoes). In the Witcher, I think, NPCs would go under cover when it rained, for example. Maybe the same could happen in Din's -- i.e., NPCs would be a little more mobile, their position in town would no longer be so static, and this would make raids and monster incursions even more unpredictable.

EternalChampion
01-24-2011, 02:02 PM
That will teach me to fix bugs. :) I fixed it so tornadoes actually will show up in town when they say they do and now they are killing everything in sight. I'll tone them down soon.

I saw my first one yesterday. It was on edge of town traveling slowly. I just followed it and even accidentally walked into it a bit. It looked really cool. Then it left right when I was trying to take a screenshot. :(

Shadow
01-24-2011, 02:06 PM
Also Shadow did you see the bug in the other thread with quests being resolved instantaneously?

I saw, I can probably fix that.