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Bluddy
02-12-2011, 12:34 PM
Hey guys

When I first saw all the character modifiers that are available, I was flabbergasted. But then I found that almost every time I start a new character, I read over them and say to myself: "Naah, that doesn't seem fun. Nope, I don't feel like doing that." I'd like to get your feedback on these modifiers and see if we can come up with suggestions to make them more intereseting/practical. Here are my reactions to the different modifiers:

- Hardcore: death is final, no shared stash. This one's cool and I get why people like it. I may make a few of these characters one day, but right now the 'loss of time' doesn't seem worth it.
- Cursed: also seems interesting, mostly because it gives cursed items a huge role. Normally I throw away cursed items since there are so many magical items that I know I'll get something better pretty soon.
- Ego: less experience on lower levels. Also seems pretty neat.
- Unlucky: Fewer magic items. As of right now, I think this is probably one of the best options.
- Honorable death: die if the town is destroyed. I don't really get this one. If I'm not playing hardcore, it does nothing, and if I'm playing hardcore, it makes it even harder (as if that's needed). Maybe it's meant to make semi-hardcore harder?
My suggestion: change it to lose 4/5 vitality if a town is destroyed.
- Semi-hardcore: Lose 5 vitality every time you die. I've written about it elsewhere -- I think it's too much. You can survive the first town of your character since the monsters can barely touch you in the low single digit levels, but after that, 5 vitality/death means that a non-defensive character effectively has about 3-4 'lives', which it can try to extend with vitality potions. Not that practical.
My suggestion: change it to 1-2 vitality loss per death.
- Poverty: less money and items. Sounds great and challenging.
- Fragile: Half the health. Sounds a little boring and may only be for defensive characters, but could be challenging.
- Clumsy: half the dexterity. Same reaction. How does it work? Do you just start out with lower dexterity? When you put points into dexterity, do only 1/2 go in?
- Lost: no map. Can't see anyone using this unless they go with very slow pace and lower levels.
- Prima Donna: can't use non-special items. Since there are so many special (magical/unique) items, and since the first town is easy, this would be very easy to do. Almost all my gear is magical.
- Only hope: you die, the town dies. I guess this is like a lighter hardcore, except who want to lose towns so fast?
My suggestion: change it to 'you die -- the dungeon gets much more aggressive'.
- Hunger: have to eat. Definitely want to try this one out. It could be interesting but could also get annoying. Since food is such a relatively cheap and useful resource, you use lots of it anyway, so I can't see this making a massive difference gameplay-wise, except for healing characters who are now forced to eat regardless.

Feedback on any of these?

Caal
02-12-2011, 02:57 PM
Hardcore - absolutely my favorite. I play this mode most of the time.

Cursed - I've tried this a few times and tried hard to like this mode, but I just don't.

Ego - Good for people who consistently play at dungeon levels higher than their characters, but for more conservative players, getting half xp most of the time is frustrating.

Unlucky is a nice option, but I prefer modding the item code to customize the quantity and quality of drops to my liking.

Poverty - Tried this a few times, but with not that much to spend money on, characters often still generate more than enough cash.

Semi-hardcore - death makes the character weaker and weaker until the ultimate death. Haven't tried it but seems frustrating. I would have preferred a system where you start with one life then gain an additional life (kind of a Din's blessing thing) say every x levels, or one or more lives with each gain in status (freedom, champion, elite, etc).

Hunger - Haven't tried this, but I have played enough roguelikes to know what it's like. There, foods are often hard to find, and staying well nourished can be very difficult. Since foods are readily available in Din's, I can't see this being much of a challenge.

Lost - I've tried this a couple of times, and again I think roguelike experience helps here. If you "wall hug" and move around in one direction you should do ok.

Max_Powers
02-12-2011, 04:35 PM
Truth is, I rarely if ever use any of these. I usually(depending on individual character)play on normal settings with the exception of 'Dangerous Monsters' and sometimes fast pace.

The semi-hardcore setting seems interesting, but also kind of counter-intuitive to the overall theme of the game. I mean, Din wants you to succeed, therefore why would there be penalties for death?

Bluddy
02-12-2011, 05:07 PM
The semi-hardcore setting seems interesting, but also kind of counter-intuitive to the overall theme of the game. I mean, Din wants you to succeed, therefore why would there be penalties for death?

We can always make up reasons. Maybe resurrection is so traumatic it weakens the soul, and beyond a certain point it can't be done anymore, even by a god.

Max_Powers
02-12-2011, 05:17 PM
We can always make up reasons. Maybe resurrection is so traumatic it weakens the soul, and beyond a certain point it can't be done anymore, even by a god.

True that! Never looked at it that way I guess.

Tar Palantir
02-12-2011, 08:00 PM
I don't have time to check it right now but isn't prima donna just Legendary, artifact, unique and set items?

(play a hardcore character with that option on: there is THE challenge, as there is no shared stash)

DeathKnight1728
02-12-2011, 09:26 PM
Bluddy said-
- Clumsy: half the dexterity. Same reaction. How does it work? Do you just start out with lower dexterity? When you put points into dexterity, do only 1/2 go in?

Clumsy works like this-if you have 10 dexterity normally, you will only have-5. It makes it very hard to play unless you have a high amount of dexterity. Try playing this with a squishy character that has low dexterity mod and you will have to pump it extra into it.

Ive said this before and ill say it again-modifiers should be like optional traits from original fallout-you get an advantage and a disadvantage. I dont know what to choose for each but that is up to shadow. Otherwise there is no reason to pick them. The game is already hard as anything as it is. Hardcore, cursed, hunger and only hope would be the only ones i would choose.

Bluddy
02-13-2011, 12:48 AM
Ive said this before and ill say it again-modifiers should be like optional traits from original fallout-you get an advantage and a disadvantage. I dont know what to choose for each but that is up to shadow. Otherwise there is no reason to pick them. The game is already hard as anything as it is. Hardcore, cursed, hunger and only hope would be the only ones i would choose.

That's a really good point. I think there's a huge difference between those of us who are 'amateurs' and have only played until a certain level (mid 20s for me) and those who played all the way. You guys really appreciate the difficulty of the game as is. I wish there were more people who got close to 100 to give feedback on the late game balancing.

Right now, the only reward for choosing these modifiers is a bit more XP, but you're right -- give the difficulty of the game, it does make more sense to go the fallout way.

Bak
02-13-2011, 01:28 PM
Right now, the only reward for choosing these modifiers is a bit more XP, but you're right -- give the difficulty of the game, it does make more sense to go the fallout way.

There is a bonus to XP? That's true for town modifiers (like fast), but I don't think there is anything for character mods, beyond a boost to the clicker's ego. :D

Bluddy
02-14-2011, 03:15 AM
There is a bonus to XP? That's true for town modifiers (like fast), but I don't think there is anything for character mods, beyond a boost to the clicker's ego. :D

My mistake, you're absolutely right. Got confused with town modifiers.

Kruztee
02-14-2011, 03:55 AM
I don't use any of them except hardcore, which I use exclusively.

I have tried a couple of them when we were doing the weekly hardcore challenges, but can't say that I particularly enjoyed any of them that much. In fact all the options are pretty much set at default for nearly all my games, except for the starting monster level which I set to around the "easy" marker on the scaler. It means that I level more slowly, but survivabillity is better and this suits my more conservative game style. I also tend to use non "power builds" and try out lots of different (sometimes totally ineffective) skill combos. I also roleplay my characters quite often which can be a challenge game in itself.

Archon
02-14-2011, 05:51 AM
I use a bunch of character mods on my hardcore characters mainly because I find the experience more fun, my favorites are:

Lost - I really enjoy this one since without 'lost' activated I tend to overuse my map, looking at the map screen every couple of seconds, probably spending half of my overall play time on the map screen. With lost activated I focus more on the dungeon and the atmosphere around me since I know I won't have the map to depend on. For me it makes the game a more immersive experience overall.

Poverty - I love the poverty option since I tend to enjoy the survival aspects more than the hack & slash and gaining less coin overall makes me focus on being more resourceful with my characters. I would even like Shadow to take this a step further and have leprechauns drop no additional gold (although you should still be able to recover what they steal) with poverty mode activated since the creatures make it too easy to still gain a significant amount of coin and leprechauns take away quite a bit to the specialness of finding a treasure room when you can gain just as much if not more from a couple of leprechauns.

Unlucky - Another one of my favorites. I also stack unlucky with the rare items mod to get a especially unlucky experience in my games. I enjoy a very low magic drop rate, like poverty less is more sometimes, and with unlucky+rare items mod finding magical items turns into a special occasion instead of finding a good magical item every other step in the dungeon.

Bluddy
02-14-2011, 06:04 AM
Lost - I really enjoy this one since without 'lost' activated I tend to overuse my map, looking at the map screen every couple of seconds, probably spending half of my overall play time on the map screen. With lost activated I focus more on the dungeon and the atmosphere around me since I know I won't have the map to depend on. For me it makes the game a more immersive experience overall.

Interesting. Never thought of it that way. I should give it a try. Maybe it's like GPS vs. learning the lay of the land.

Poverty - I love the poverty option since I tend to enjoy the survival aspects more than the hack & slash and gaining less coin overall makes me focus on being more resourceful with my characters. I would even like Shadow to take this a step further and have leprechauns drop no additional gold (although you should still be able to recover what they steal) with the poverty mode activated since the creatures make it too easy to still gain a significant amount of coin and leprechauns take away quite a bit to the specialness of finding a treasure room when you can gain just as much if not more from a couple of leprechauns.

Exactly! while it doesn't belong on this thread, I think leprechauns are the least enjoyable creatures in the game. I've never had a leprechaun I couldn't kill (easily), and then I get so much gold instead of being in danger of losing my gold. Maybe leprechauns should magically whisk away their money to their pot of gold every 30 seconds -- it could be a spell. Also since they're so weak, they should hide from you unless you're being swarmed by strong creatures.

Unlucky - Another one of my favorites. I also stack unlucky with the rare items mod to get a especially unlucky experience in my games. I enjoy a very low magic drop rate, like poverty less is more sometimes, and with unlucky+rare items mod finding magical items turns into a special occasion instead of finding a good magical item every other step in the dungeon.

Yeah I'd really like to see a somewhat lower magic item rate in the game. I think my next game will be unlucky. I don't want to mod since then I lose somewhat the ability to experience the beta and give feedback.

DeathKnight1728
02-14-2011, 11:48 AM
Cursed mode is fun in the beginning, but if you depend on your weapon damage to the extreme, it can be very hard. Most of my cursed mode characters make it to 15 and then i get frustrated. Its especially hard when you want to use a specific weapon type and you are restricted to that type.