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Shadow
02-14-2011, 05:19 PM
I was originally thinking that version 1.021 was going to be the gold version of Demon War, but a discussion of some needed balance changes has made me reconsider. So this week I'm mostly going to focus on balance changes to get the difficulty in line and to enhance some of the weaker skills to be more useful. The start of a skill balance thread is here (http://www.soldak.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3419) but is there anything else that you think we must change or fix before we go gold?

Bluddy
02-14-2011, 06:07 PM
What's up with the 'no town activity after level 50' bug? Is that still going? I've seen it mentioned here and there but not so recently. If it's still around, that's a big one.

Shadow
02-14-2011, 06:52 PM
What's up with the 'no town activity after level 50' bug? Is that still going? I've seen it mentioned here and there but not so recently. If it's still around, that's a big one.

I think I have dealt with it, but I PMed Nobear to get verification.

Manumitted
02-15-2011, 04:15 PM
As I mentioned in my last bug list, I wish for a change in the item icon scaling factor to make 12 rows of items fit onscreen. Inventory management gets messy(er) and tedious(er) once all containers (stash + inventory) cannot be opened at once without several of them spilling off the screen. It's not realistic for those with CRTs to play the game at a high enough resolution to avoid the problem. 1280x960 or 1024 doesn't fix it, and most CRTs don't do 1600x1200 or do it real ugly. 12x10 also distorts the graphics and especially text with its unsquare pixels.

ETA: I just took a brief trip to 1600x1200, and the issue is still present there! The scaling factor must be too high across the board, then.

Shadow
02-15-2011, 04:51 PM
The UI should be the same size relative to the screen no matter the resolution.

Roswitha
02-15-2011, 08:09 PM
I haven't had a chance to play for a bit. Did the trap stuff get fixed? Namely, if a chest says it has an Ice Storm with a 30% chance of accuracy, and a 20% chance of disarm, do the procs happen as they're supposed to?

Manumitted
02-15-2011, 08:35 PM
The UI should be the same size relative to the screen no matter the resolution.

Yes, that's the problem. The twelfth row of items doesn't fit, which means that starting with the ninth container opened, plus one for each column of 11 rows or fewer, the remainder are drawn partially or wholly off the screen. See these two examples:

One (http://img251.imageshack.us/i/ss0136q80.jpg/)
Two (http://img546.imageshack.us/i/ss0137q80.jpg/)

Bluddy
02-16-2011, 02:20 AM
The simplest solution is probably to limit the number of open bags other than your inventory on screen.

Manumitted
02-16-2011, 03:14 AM
The simplest solution is to change the already existing scaling factor so 12 rows fit. It's easier for me to hit the Open All button in the stash than inspect the bag icons to see which one(s) have spare space, then open that one, then close the inventory, then open all stash bags, then move the item where I really want it.

Granted, this isn't a bug that most customers are going to encounter soon after buying the game--you need 3-7 14-slot bags, not usable until L32, depending on placement--and it's not possible to see it in the demo, but it makes the later game more tedious for no reason but a badly chosen scaling factor on the containers.

Baki
02-16-2011, 03:47 AM
While balancing please consider the differences between time and animation time. this makes skills like cleave (Time 1.5, Time till dmg ~0.48) or whirlwind totally imbalanced.

im sure there are more but i do not know them all.

abomination5
02-16-2011, 09:27 AM
I'm glad some of the useless skills are finally going to be looked at. I've been hoping for that to happen for quite some time. :D

DeathKnight1728
02-16-2011, 03:36 PM
One thing that i think would be cool with how the townspeople act is their dialogue. Theres so many places where a flashing sentence or 2 would be cool. For example, I use this one all the time-the apothecary is poisoning the water supply attacking and starting fights all the time...but why. Wouldnt it be cool if i read under some guy's name-"Why'd you sleep with my wife aldren?" Aldren-"Because i knew that it would piss you off." A fight then ensues. This would not only be more realistic then the usual, but would give you the perspective as to why things are happening. Instead of picking which of the 2 people you kill to stop a fight, you read that the one guy is obviously a jerk, gives you more choice and more realistics too.

Im not gonna say that all of the guys can be explained. The world with the nutcase apothecary should be under the psycho modifier where people are just nuts. Still this would make sense.

DrShock
02-20-2011, 06:42 PM
I know we here who love your game (myself, my wife, and my two friends who live in San Fran and Austin) wish there would be better items to buy in stores - none of us have ever bought a single item since drops are so plentiful AND they are where you find the good items. This seems like such a wasted opportunity to enhance the enjoyment of all the vendors (we have bought bags though).

Even if you made really good items very expensive, it would give us a new reason to save money and go into the dungeons to make more. Love Din's!

This next one is from my wife, "Lelenae":
NPC quests are loved. I would love to be able to arm the NPCs so they could fight the invasions.

I am a healer and it is really hard to target an NPC during an invasion to heal them without opening up the "chat" options with that NPC.

Manumitted
02-20-2011, 07:41 PM
I know we here who love your game (myself, my wife, and my two friends who live in San Fran and Austin) wish there would be better items to buy in stores - none of us have ever bought a single item since drops are so plentiful AND they are where you find the good items. This seems like such a wasted opportunity to enhance the enjoyment of all the vendors (we have bought bags though).

My anecdotal experience is opposite yours. Almost half of my characters' items are bought in stores, and the quality compares favorably to all but the best drops.

This result may be a function of my lingering in the towns with better-quality merchants, who also tend to have higher restock rates. If I'm going to farm items, I might as well do it in a town where the merchants offer another source for good items.

Baki
02-20-2011, 08:32 PM
While balancing please consider the differences between time and animation time. this makes skills like cleave (Time 1.5, Time till dmg ~0.48) or whirlwind totally imbalanced.

im sure there are more but i do not know them all.


increased cleave damage mult per level from 0.125 to 0.135 (alstein)

To be honest i am disappointed. the best melee attack skill got a buff :(

Pyro
02-20-2011, 08:57 PM
My anecdotal experience is opposite yours. Almost half of my characters' items are bought in stores, and the quality compares favorably to all but the best drops.

This result may be a function of my lingering in the towns with better-quality merchants, who also tend to have higher restock rates. If I'm going to farm items, I might as well do it in a town where the merchants offer another source for good items.

I find about 30% of my items in stores and 70% in battle, which is fine with me. I like that I need to find (and fight for) the best items and not spend my time shopping to do so.

The exception to this rule is for jewelry, rings, and amulets which 99% of the ones I use are bought.

Bluddy
02-21-2011, 03:31 AM
I know we here who love your game (myself, my wife, and my two friends who live in San Fran and Austin) wish there would be better items to buy in stores - none of us have ever bought a single item since drops are so plentiful AND they are where you find the good items. This seems like such a wasted opportunity to enhance the enjoyment of all the vendors (we have bought bags though).

Even if you made really good items very expensive, it would give us a new reason to save money and go into the dungeons to make more. Love Din's!

I've mentioned this before and I will again, though others will clearly disagree. I think at the very least, the poverty option should be the default option for Din. We get too many good items too fast, making the experience of finding a powerful item less enjoyable (and rendering cursed item virtually worthless).

This next one is from my wife, "Lelenae":
NPC quests are loved. I would love to be able to arm the NPCs so they could fight the invasions.

I believe you can arm the NPCs, either by giving them items directly or giving items to the warmaster. I never do it myself though.

EternalChampion
02-21-2011, 04:52 AM
In my last town today I had a message that one of the townspeople had armed the town! I usually give my duplicate artifacts, elites, and rares to the town anyway, along with any shwag I can't use. But it was cool seeing them take care of themselves for a change.

m0stly_harmless
02-21-2011, 10:48 AM
In my last town today I had a message that one of the townspeople had armed the town! I usually give my duplicate artifacts, elites, and rares to the town anyway, along with any shwag I can't use. But it was cool seeing them take care of themselves for a change.

That's all find and dandy, up until you get to a vendor, see something you like and have it plundered by an NPC!!!

Saw a kick ass BOW for once in my life and had it bought out from under my nose by an NPC... WTH!?!? Not impressed. :mad:

Crisses
02-21-2011, 11:06 AM
I've noticed that I find an awful lot of plate & mail items. This makes very little sense given that cloth & leather should be more plentiful especially in a war-torn economy. It's very rare that any character is able to use Plate items, so it's just liquid assets in the long run.

I suggest tweaking it. Not a big overwhelming nerf -- I get plenty mail & plate items with the alteration I'm suggesting -- but I'm finally able to actually ARM my leather/cloth wearing characters because there's just a bit more leather/cloth drops -- and MOST of my characters are limited to leather & cloth armor!

Here's what Din's Curse has:


// Armor Balance

BalanceArmorClothBase 8.0
BalanceArmorLeatherBase 16.0
BalanceArmorMailBase 24.0
BalanceArmorPlateBase 32.0
BalanceCapeBase 8.0

BalanceArmorClothPerLevel 4.0
BalanceArmorLeatherPerLevel 6.0
BalanceArmorMailPerLevel 8.0
BalanceArmorPlatePerLevel 10.0
BalanceCapePerLevel 4.0

BalanceArmorPiecePercentChest 22.2
BalanceArmorPiecePercentBack 16.7
BalanceArmorPiecePercentLegs 16.7
BalanceArmorPiecePercentHead 16.7
BalanceArmorPiecePercentFeet 11.1
BalanceArmorPiecePercentHands 11.1
BalanceArmorPiecePercentShoulders 11.1
BalanceArmorPiecePercentWaist 5.6
BalanceArmorPiecePercentWrists 5.6



Here's what I've been playtesting:


BalanceArmorPiecePercentWaist 8.6
BalanceArmorPiecePercentWrists 8.6

BalanceArmorClothBase 26.0
BalanceArmorLeatherBase 16.0
BalanceArmorMailBase 14.0
BalanceArmorPlateBase 12.0
BalanceCapeBase 10.0

BalanceArmorClothPerLevel 10.0
BalanceArmorLeatherPerLevel 8.0
BalanceArmorMailPerLevel 6.0
BalanceArmorPlatePerLevel 8.0
BalanceCapePerLevel 8.0


As you can see, I'm not going for a big change, it just flips around the %'s a little so that you get a little less plate & mail. It also makes little sense why it's harder to get a wristbrace than a whole chestpiece -- especially in terms of constantly sticking your hands into battle & the actual materials involved in making either one. From mucking around with crafting, it's much easier to make a leather wrist-brace than a leather vest (yes, I've made both) ;) It's just a bloody tube you can put around your arm.

Should these numbers add up to 100%? They didn't in the original %'s. Is the remaining % non-armor drops? Do the "back" drops count? what pieces are those? i.e. is that deprecated?

Bluddy
02-21-2011, 11:30 AM
Are you sure these numbers are for percentage of armor drops? Why are there per level numbers? I'm thinking these numbers could affect the actual strength of different kinds of armor, since I don't see that specified in the specific item files. Wouldn't want cloth to be stronger than plate...

Crisses
02-21-2011, 11:59 AM
Are you sure these numbers are for percentage of armor drops? Why are there per level numbers? I'm thinking these numbers could affect the actual strength of different kinds of armor, since I don't see that specified in the specific item files. Wouldn't want cloth to be stronger than plate...

You might be right -- that might explain why not only I was finding more drops of these types but also better armor itself. Pish. RTFM? Where's the M? :)

Shadow
02-21-2011, 12:11 PM
Yeah those numbers are controlling the actual armor that each armor piece provides. If you want to change the drop rates you will need to go into all of the individual types like Database/Items/beltsPlate.gdb and change the SpawnChance value. If it doesn't have a SpawnChance line in the base entry then it defaults to 1.0 I believe.

Manumitted
02-21-2011, 05:17 PM
That's all find and dandy, up until you get to a vendor, see something you like and have it plundered by an NPC!!!

Saw a kick ass BOW for once in my life and had it bought out from under my nose by an NPC... WTH!?!? Not impressed. :mad:

Kill him and take it back. You can use it better than he can. It's justifiable homicide.

Or is dead-NPC loot still random?

alstein
02-22-2011, 01:33 AM
I would support rarer chain and plate, provided chain and plate gave much better defensive value in terms of armor, plate especially. I'd also lower the STR requirements a little bit.

m0stly_harmless
02-22-2011, 01:15 PM
Kill him and take it back. You can use it better than he can. It's justifiable homicide.

Or is dead-NPC loot still random?

I dunno, but I will now try it. Cause it JUST happened again!!!!!! :mad:

I just had another NPC pick up a bloody (artifact) reward GIVEN to me, by said same NPC.

Justifiable homocide, for sure. Damn indian giver.

I think NPCs shouldn't be able to take/buy/steal anything over a GREEN item. But that's my two cents.

Hell, in some countries, they gimp you for that!!! (which is now going to happen to him... brb)


*************************

EDIT. NPC drops are random. I did not get my gift back, took a reputation hit BUT got the satisfation that she won't steal from me again. MWHAHAhahaha.
*cough* Sorry. Dunno where that came from.