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Crisses
02-23-2011, 03:08 PM
I "hosted" a game on the East server last night and during that game --but not after reboot into single-player mode -- opening "Gift chests" in town took For-Fn-Ever. I mean I could have a complete conversation while the white bar lazily creeped its way across the screen. It was a level 4 town, a new(ish) character -- made no difference if my character was Level 4 or Level 10.

Chests & stashes in the dungeon were fine. We didn't get the game-finished reward chest because of another glitch (so I don't know if it was all town reward chests); I had to restart the game (and did so in single player) to finish off a boss.

After restart both bonus & gift chests behaved per-nomal. Not sure if it was a multiplayer glitch or another glitch. Will tell more if it happens again.

{There was a problem completing the world because none of us could locate the boss on dungeon level 1 that was a required quest. I scoured for secrets on every wall and couldn't find him, while others handled the "very fast" quest logs that were building momentum. Restart found the critter in the 1st level....perhaps the game should "ping" where quest items/quest monsters have gotten to from time-to-time?}

The Coffee God
02-23-2011, 04:14 PM
I've had similar experiences both in multiplayer and single player with the 0.10 patch, where a boss quest pops up on lower levels in the middle of completing the main original quests.

After going back to town and turning in the quests and accepting the new quest, the boss was nowhere to be found and never spawned.

Shutting down the game and restarting always seems to fix it though.

It seems rather random when it actually happens though, since it definitely doesn't happen all the time and I've only been playing the game for a few weeks.

I haven't progressed to the next town in my game though, so I haven't tested out .022 yet, but this was prevelent in .010.

Max_Powers
02-24-2011, 11:27 AM
I am currently at level 7 of regeneration which is said to give me 952.2 health over 3 minutes. When I use the skill and then mouse-over my status icon under my stamina bar it says I am getting 828 health over 3 minutes. This off-set seems to stay true even when I level up the skill to skill level 8.

Bluddy
02-24-2011, 08:20 PM
Not so much bugs as questions/recommendations: the saurians are described as being very powerful with lightning, and yet for some reason the saurian mage outputs only 0.25 physical damage, and 0.25 lightning damage. I understand his physical damage being so low, but only 0.25 lightning damage? Why not at least 0.5?

By the same token, it makes sense that naga priests put out only 0.3 physical damage, but they're also supposed to have crazy poison stuff. Only 0.3 poison? Their specialty is supposed to be poison. Same for orc shaman.

I've found both these characters to be ineffectual in the past, and now I know why. I realize they're support characters, but still...

Caal
02-24-2011, 08:42 PM
If you find a "Friend's Body" after the NPC requesting it has died, you will be unable to pick it up, and there is no message telling why.

Shadow
02-25-2011, 09:37 AM
Not so much bugs as questions/recommendations: the saurians are described as being very powerful with lightning, and yet for some reason the saurian mage outputs only 0.25 physical damage, and 0.25 lightning damage. I understand his physical damage being so low, but only 0.25 lightning damage? Why not at least 0.5?

By the same token, it makes sense that naga priests put out only 0.3 physical damage, but they're also supposed to have crazy poison stuff. Only 0.3 poison? Their specialty is supposed to be poison. Same for orc shaman.

I've found both these characters to be ineffectual in the past, and now I know why. I realize they're support characters, but still...

Magic (really projectiles) using monsters usually have less damage because their attacks don't miss (unless you move out of the way that is).

Crisses
02-25-2011, 09:59 AM
Magic (really projectiles) using monsters usually have less damage because their attacks don't miss (unless you move out of the way that is).

Basically these spell-casting monsters are just annoyances. I often just mouse-away from their attacks. They die very easily. They're the mages of the monster world. I'm sure the monsters think similarly of my mage characters. "Just dodge and whack them hard once during their cooldown and they'll die."

Same goes for spiders, basically. They're just inconvenient as monsters, and they're stupid as pets. They're only "deadly" if you're completely surrounded & thus immobilized by them, and the target of 5+ of them attacking.

This only holds true through the 40s & 50s -- I have no idea what happens past level 50 Elite.

Bluddy
02-26-2011, 02:45 PM
Magic (really projectiles) using monsters usually have less damage because their attacks don't miss (unless you move out of the way that is).

The thing is, monster mages already have significantly lower damage because of the fact that they get fewer strength points per level, and their strength to damage ratio is lower (0.5 to 1). For example at level 40, their max damage is 50 vs other monsters' 80. Multiply that by 0.6 (I assume 0.3 physical and 0.3 lightning means the attack does both at the same time?) and now their attack is 0.625*0.6 = 0.375 of a regular monster's attack. Their attacks get weaker and weaker relative to the main monsters as the levels go up. I think mages should instill fear, especially in characters with weak elemental resistance, but instead they're pitiful.

Also, what is the reason for splitting their attack 50-50 between elemental and physical? The problem with this is that it minimizes even more the elemental damage in the game, making elemental resistance even less necessary (which is probably the reason people didn't notice the elemental resistance formula being off, since elemental resistance counts for little).

Also just so I know how it works, btw when strength increases damage, does it increase min or max damage or both?

DeathKnight1728
02-26-2011, 03:15 PM
Also just so I know how it works, btw when strength increases damage, does it increase min or max damage or both?

Strength increases both with every point.

The Coffee God
02-26-2011, 03:15 PM
Also just so I know how it works, btw when strength increases damage, does it increase min or max damage or both?
Don't know about monster damage, but character strength damage increases both min and max, though min doesn't go up as fast as max.

At my current point spread for my character, min goes up for every 3 strength points, while max goes up every 1 point.

Baki
02-26-2011, 03:54 PM
At my current point spread for my character, min goes up for every 3 strength points, while max goes up every 1 point.

you dont have to be a genius to come up with an explanation for that :p

Arjun123
02-26-2011, 05:23 PM
There appears to be a minor bug involving the use of the acid, poison, etc. that one collects with vials. When I use them, the animation and (relatively loud) sound effect continues long after the increased damage expires. In fact, the only way to get rid of them is to save and then reload the game. It would be nice if the animation and sound effects ended when the effect times out, so that one can easily know when the buff is no longer active.

tacitus
02-27-2011, 08:27 PM
Gate naming truncation : the surface gate for reads "Dead Wind Catacombs lvl" with a scroll bar covering the numbers. (I play with large dungeons)

Large dungeon issue - most of the time when large dungeons are chosen quests are rarely distributed through the entire dungeon. Quest levels rarely goes past 7 or 8.

Crisses
02-27-2011, 08:42 PM
Gate naming truncation : the surface gate for reads "Dead Wind Catacombs lvl" with a scroll bar covering the numbers. (I play with large dungeons)

Large dungeon issue - most of the time when large dungeons are chosen quests are rarely distributed through the entire dungeon. Quest levels rarely goes past 7 or 8.

I've seen quests go to level 16+. In one sad multiplayer game there were 23 levels -- and quests all the way to the bottom :(

tacitus
02-27-2011, 10:57 PM
I've seen quests go to level 16+. In one sad multiplayer game there were 23 levels -- and quests all the way to the bottom :(
Must just be luck of the draw - its very strange, I have probably done at least 10 large dungeons and all of them have had the manditory quests under level 8. Probably my next world will have them all stacked at the bottom; when I complain about something the next time I run the issue has gone away.

Shadow
02-28-2011, 11:20 AM
The thing is, monster mages already have significantly lower damage because of the fact that they get fewer strength points per level, and their strength to damage ratio is lower (0.5 to 1). For example at level 40, their max damage is 50 vs other monsters' 80. Multiply that by 0.6 (I assume 0.3 physical and 0.3 lightning means the attack does both at the same time?) and now their attack is 0.625*0.6 = 0.375 of a regular monster's attack. Their attacks get weaker and weaker relative to the main monsters as the levels go up. I think mages should instill fear, especially in characters with weak elemental resistance, but instead they're pitiful.

Also, what is the reason for splitting their attack 50-50 between elemental and physical? The problem with this is that it minimizes even more the elemental damage in the game, making elemental resistance even less necessary (which is probably the reason people didn't notice the elemental resistance formula being off, since elemental resistance counts for little).

Assuming I'm remembering correctly, monsters don't actually get a strength damage bonus so this shouldn't be an issue.

The damage split is because some things are pretty immune to certain types of elements and things work better if the monsters always have the chance to do some damage. For example, a monster that does pure poison damage could never break down a door that is in the way.

Bluddy
02-28-2011, 11:30 AM
Assuming I'm remembering correctly, monsters don't actually get a strength damage bonus so this shouldn't be an issue.

The damage split is because some things are pretty immune to certain types of elements and things work better if the monsters always have the chance to do some damage. For example, a monster that does pure poison damage could never break down a door that is in the way.

They don't get a strength bonus? Do they use ClassMonsterGeneric? Because that uses ClassGenericBase, which has a 1.0 strength/damage conversion ratio. How is their health calculated then? How is critical hit calculated? Defense?

I thought they use ClassMonsterGeneric or ClassMonsterMage/Priest and then override some values with the values in BaseMonsters.gdb (which seem like only partial values). Do I have it wrong? I saw that you changed a value in ClassGenericBase between assets001.zip and assets003.zip so I thought those values must be used.

EDIT: I tested it and saw the damage multiplier doesn't affect things. I guess it was easier to individualize races by adjusting their damage directly. I'm still curious as to how critical hits are calculated for monsters.

For breaking doors down and such, they'd only need a little bit of physical damage, right? Would a 0.1-0.5 ratio make more sense?

Another EDIT: I have anther question, Shadow. Saurian mages split their attack to 0.25 physical and 0.25 lightning, but their lightning bolt skill has DamageMultLightning of 1.0 and DamageMultPhysical of -10000. What's the purpose of these very low negative values I find sometimes? Won't this cancel out their physical damage?

Also, how is damage calculated? Monsters seem to deal damage higher than what I calculate they should at their level.

Crisses
02-28-2011, 11:37 AM
For breaking doors down and such, they'd only need a little bit of physical damage, right? Would a 0.1-0.5 ratio make more sense?

Some monsters don't do melee. Would this apply to their spells, too?

Still a bug: Every pure direct-damage monster-mage can't target/hurt their own species within their faction, no matter how much they hate each other. If they could alternate between magic & melee this would not be the case, and it does not apply to area-of-effect spells (dark elf's ice storm is OK), only direct-damage spells (i.e. torva shaman's firebolt, naga's poison, skeleton archer bows). I should video this, it's pretty amusing.

Shadow
03-01-2011, 11:14 AM
They don't get a strength bonus? Do they use ClassMonsterGeneric? Because that uses ClassGenericBase, which has a 1.0 strength/damage conversion ratio. How is their health calculated then? How is critical hit calculated? Defense?

I thought they use ClassMonsterGeneric or ClassMonsterMage/Priest and then override some values with the values in BaseMonsters.gdb (which seem like only partial values). Do I have it wrong? I saw that you changed a value in ClassGenericBase between assets001.zip and assets003.zip so I thought those values must be used.

EDIT: I tested it and saw the damage multiplier doesn't affect things. I guess it was easier to individualize races by adjusting their damage directly. I'm still curious as to how critical hits are calculated for monsters.

For breaking doors down and such, they'd only need a little bit of physical damage, right? Would a 0.1-0.5 ratio make more sense?

Another EDIT: I have anther question, Shadow. Saurian mages split their attack to 0.25 physical and 0.25 lightning, but their lightning bolt skill has DamageMultLightning of 1.0 and DamageMultPhysical of -10000. What's the purpose of these very low negative values I find sometimes? Won't this cancel out their physical damage?

Also, how is damage calculated? Monsters seem to deal damage higher than what I calculate they should at their level.

Yes, most of them use ClassMonsterGeneric, but some of the values are ignored for monsters. Their damage comes from MinDamage/MaxDamage and MinDamagePerLevel/MaxDamagePerLevel in BaseMonsters.gdb and the multipliers for each difficulty level.

I believe their health does come from vitality like normal.

Yes, the DamageMultPhysical -10000 would essentially remove the physical damage. Basically for a Saurian mage the lightning bolts are pure lightning but if they actually hit you with their claws it would be half lightning/half physical damage.

It already takes some of the monsters a while to break down a door. Too much lower and they might be hacking on a door forever. :)

Bluddy
03-01-2011, 11:18 AM
Yes, most of them use ClassMonsterGeneric, but some of the values are ignored for monsters. Their damage comes from MinDamage/MaxDamage and MinDamagePerLevel/MaxDamagePerLevel in BaseMonsters.gdb and the multipliers for each difficulty level.

I believe their health does come from vitality like normal.

Yes, the DamageMultPhysical -10000 would essentially remove the physical damage. Basically for a Saurian mage the lightning bolts are pure lightning but if they actually hit you with their claws it would be half lightning/half physical damage.

It already takes some of the monsters a while to break down a door. Too much lower and they might be hacking on a door forever. :)

That makes sense. If their physical component is nullified for a lightning attack, however, that leaves them with... 0.25 lightning damage per zap? How about 0.6/0.7 lightning, 0.3 physical, where the physical is only for claws. That would make them formidable but still weaker than regular attacks. The same logic applies to shamans and nagas.

Shadow
03-01-2011, 02:07 PM
That makes sense. If their physical component is nullified for a lightning attack, however, that leaves them with... 0.25 lightning damage per zap? How about 0.6/0.7 lightning, 0.3 physical, where the physical is only for claws. That would make them formidable but still weaker than regular attacks. The same logic applies to shamans and nagas.

Yeah, they have 0.25 damage per zap, however, their lightning never misses. They don't have a to hit calculation and you can't dodge it like projectiles.

Crisses
03-01-2011, 02:27 PM
It already takes some of the monsters a while to break down a door. Too much lower and they might be hacking on a door forever. :)

Is this then a problem of the damage of the monsters, or the hit points of the door?

They make some MIGHTY FINE doors at level 50, I gotta say. I wonder who the carpenter is, because I want him to come to MY house. I'm a great and powerful warrior, able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, but that door STILL takes at least 5 hits to open. :)

Is that really necessary? It's a door. If a monster can't find its way out of a paper bag, maybe it's because it has lizard brains. :)

Shadow
03-01-2011, 02:45 PM
It doesn't really make sense that doors get more health over the levels. However if you want them to still be a similar obstacle to the player and the monsters at level 100 as they are at level 1 their health needs to scale.

Bluddy
03-02-2011, 03:15 AM
Yes, most of them use ClassMonsterGeneric, but some of the values are ignored for monsters. Their damage comes from MinDamage/MaxDamage and MinDamagePerLevel/MaxDamagePerLevel in BaseMonsters.gdb and the multipliers for each difficulty level.

I believe their health does come from vitality like normal.

Yes, the DamageMultPhysical -10000 would essentially remove the physical damage. Basically for a Saurian mage the lightning bolts are pure lightning but if they actually hit you with their claws it would be half lightning/half physical damage.

It already takes some of the monsters a while to break down a door. Too much lower and they might be hacking on a door forever. :)

Shadow, do monsters get a resistance bonus from spirit? If so, their resistance is higher than what's outlined in BaseMonsters.gdb, right?

Shadow
03-02-2011, 10:08 AM
Shadow, do monsters get a resistance bonus from spirit? If so, their resistance is higher than what's outlined in BaseMonsters.gdb, right?

No. A monster's resistances are similar to damage, some numbers in BaseMonsters.gdb and the difficulty multiplier.

Bluddy
03-02-2011, 10:09 AM
No. A monster's resistances are similar to damage, some numbers in BaseMonsters.gdb and the difficulty multiplier.

OK just wanted to make sure I had that part right.

Bluddy
03-02-2011, 05:34 PM
This boss just sat there and did nothing while I pelted him with fire. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that he has fear going on? Bosses probably shouldn't be able to be fearful. Not sure if that was the problem though.

Crisses
03-02-2011, 11:08 PM
This boss just sat there and did nothing while I pelted him with fire. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that he has fear going on? Bosses probably shouldn't be able to be fearful. Not sure if that was the problem though.

Yes -- he has the fear debuff icon. That would explain it. It happened to my necromancer's dual completely-Growth'd scavengers all the time. They'd run around being useless. LOL

Feral23
03-03-2011, 08:49 PM
my revives keep running around like headless chickens, gettin fear status for no apparent reason...

EternalChampion
03-07-2011, 03:29 PM
I went up to Jewel the Jeweler because of her question mark status. Not only does she only have one crappy ring for sale, she's also in debt (with 94CP!)... and she calls herself Anna. I accept the get Anna out of debt quest. I click on her again to give her some coin and she's Jewel again. :confused: I complete the quest and she's Anna. Then back to Jewel. And, no, there were no other Anna's in town.

EternalChampion
03-07-2011, 08:54 PM
I don't know if it's really considered a bug or not, but my adventure today went like this:

Accidentally run into a big leprachaun boss named Slink on dungeon level 3. I kill his gold happy self. I go back to town and no one cares. Around level 5 there he is again, Slink! I promptly send his butt back over the rainbow and look in my quest log-- ah! Kill Slink!!!... but it's not completed! :confused: His rapidly decomposing corpse is right THERE! On to level 7 and, lo and behold, it's SLINK. Again. :mad: I kill him one more time and *ding* *ding* I complete the quest. This also happened with another boss in the same dungeon, but I only had to kill him twice... but he showed-up in the log:

01:11:54 - Harg has been killed.
01:11:54 - Looks like a group is taking advantage of Harg being killed.
01:11:55 - Harg (a Frost Rylor Bull) has formed a group of monsters in Domain of the Dead lvl 6.
-------
02:05:04 - Harg has been killed.:confused:

The only time Slink appears in the log as being killed is the final time.

01:28:12 - Accepted Kill Slink the boss quest
-----
01:54:10 - Slink has been killed.
-----
01:55:43 - Solved Kill Slink the boss quest

I'm assuming that this all had to do with everyone being slaughtered in town save for the Apothecary? Luckily I was able to get a quest for a new Warmaster then Steward before even HE died. :eek: Still it's kind of strange to have to keep killing the same boss in the same dungeon/town.

Despair
03-08-2011, 01:28 AM
It seem that the recent buff on blight (the necromancer skill) is not working correctly.

The skill say (for my example) 16.5 damage per second but when i'm hovering the debuff icon on the monster status it say only 12 damage per second.

Is someone else had the same issue ?

Bak
03-08-2011, 05:02 PM
It seem that the recent buff on blight (the necromancer skill) is not working correctly.

The skill say (for my example) 16.5 damage per second but when i'm hovering the debuff icon on the monster status it say only 12 damage per second.

Is someone else had the same issue ?

Maybe the monster's armor or resistance accounts for the difference?

Max_Powers
03-08-2011, 07:03 PM
It seem that the recent buff on blight (the necromancer skill) is not working correctly.

The skill say (for my example) 16.5 damage per second but when i'm hovering the debuff icon on the monster status it say only 12 damage per second.

Is someone else had the same issue ?

I have not seen this one personally, but I did find a similar problem with the buff that was done to Regeneration, that I reported(and it was hopefully noticed)earlier in this thread(like the third post).

Now that I think about it, I wonder about other buffs like this. I have for a long time wondered if 'Bravery' was really doing what it is supposed to be doing. I mean a 96% chance to hit shouldn't miss all that often(even though it really does - even using perfect strike with its +200% to attack!)and 18-19% chance to be hit shouldn't be getting you hit all that often(but it really does).

Now if you remove Bravery from my character and you get 94% to hit and like 25(6)% chance to be hit. Now this is the way things feel in game. Maybe I am just imagining things, but my 'gut' on these things is typically right, so just wondering.

And don't even get me started on how often it seems that a enemy lands its first attack on my character. It seems uncanny at times.

DeathKnight1728
03-08-2011, 08:41 PM
You might be right. I have a 15% chance to be hit on one of my chars. I very rarely get hit when standing still, but when i move or use a skill my chances go up by about a 1/3. Theres got to be something going on.

Max_Powers
03-08-2011, 10:50 PM
You might be right. I have a 15% chance to be hit on one of my chars. I very rarely get hit when standing still, but when i move or use a skill my chances go up by about a 1/3. Theres got to be something going on.


Thank you! Was beginning to think I was crazy. Must be something up with how defense works, attack rating for an enemies first attack, or is a bug of some sort.

Have you noticed anything screwy with the 'to hit' stuff as well? To me, having a high 'to hit' and using perfect strike should equal an almost guaranteed hit. But I find that sometimes, Holy Smite, with it's +50% attack outperforms Perfect Strike's +200% attack. And again, 96% chance to hit same level creature, using Perfect Strike and Holy Smite and still getting a noticeable amount of misses Just doesn't seem right - unless it is basing my 'to hit' on my pre-bravery stats.

Eh, maybe I am crazy...

Feral23
03-08-2011, 10:58 PM
grr, revives all but useless! perma-fearing

Max_Powers
03-08-2011, 11:18 PM
grr, revives all but useless! perma-fearing

Had your revives been on fire at any point, or were they always afraid? Is 'Fear' a world modifier? Were there any Chaos Lords in the dungeon? Anyone know anything else that causes fear?


I have noticed this behavior also, but am having trouble finding any connective reasons why this is happening. Only thing I know is that being on fire(and rightly so)does it.

Feral23
03-08-2011, 11:28 PM
if feared once, by fire or c-lords, status is semi-permanent and recurs, so bugged

Despair
03-09-2011, 01:16 AM
Maybe the monster's armor or resistance accounts for the difference?

good catch, but unfortunately no, i've just tried this on several different monsters with the same result 12.0 damage per second (even on a leprechaun with a major poison resistance).

Bluddy
03-09-2011, 03:32 AM
The druid's mana bonus per spirit doesn't work because of a typo in skills.gdb (search for 'SprSpr').

Also, in global.trn, PowerBonus should be translated to 'Mana Bonus' but was accidentally left as 'Power Bonus'.

Maledictus
03-09-2011, 12:38 PM
For the warden class, when casting energy shield, the status icon displayed (under the character health/mana bars) is the icon for magical deflection.

m0stly_harmless
03-09-2011, 03:23 PM
Just died, was hitting the floor when I hit the teleport stone.

Body made it to town, soulstone is lord knows where and I wasted a teleport.

Should make it that once you die, you're dead. No wasting of potions, food or teleport stones.

The Coffee God
03-10-2011, 03:35 AM
This is not really a bug specifically for DW .022 (since it was also present in straight DC .010), but it's been bugging me because it really is exploitable.

Item stat requirements

An item that that has stat reqs will stop you from putting it on if you don't meet the reqs, and rightly so.
However, if you trade out an item that gives you the reqs for an item that drops you below reqs, it'll allow you to keep using it once it's equipped, rather than kicking it off because you're below reqs.
Also, stat potions can be used in similar fashion to take you up to stat reqs, then you can equip the item and just let the potion time run out and the item stays equipped and usable (unless you take it off).


It's just something that's bugged me for awhile now.
Various other Action/RPG games that I have played, that have stat reqs for items, kick them off once you no longer meet the stat reqs.

I mean, really, I just shouldn't be able to run around with Sure Kill, just because my previous bow took me above the DEX req before switching to Sure Kill.

http://www.soldak.com/forums/showpost.php?p=23105&postcount=118

Sure Kill
Horn Composite Bow
Rarity: Elite Basic Type: Bow
Durability 89 / 89
Two-handed
60 to 193 Damage Speed 1.00
126.5 damage per second
+12 Vitality
+125 Attack
+27 Max Damage
+204% Critical Hit
+255% Crushing Blow
+204% Magic Critical Hit
+255% Magic Crushing Blow
+95% damage
Requires 112 Strength
Requires 225 Dexterity
Requires weapon skill: Bow
Sell value: 31SP 76CP
Retail value: 6GP 35SP 33CP

Bluddy
03-10-2011, 03:37 AM
Agree with the item stat exploit. This really should be addressed in my opinion.

Manumitted
03-10-2011, 04:49 AM
Shadow's justification for this loophole is that it would really stink to have half your armor non-functional and also be fighting barehanded every time you hit a Curse trap with barely-adequate stats. It's supposed to be a curse, not a death sentence.

Perhaps a compromise? As with traps, reduce weapon/hard armor effectiveness (both DPS/AC and enchants) by 5% for every stat point shortfall (every two points for two-prerequisite weapon types) from the needed amount, subject to a cap (50%?).

To be fair, this same system should be applied to soft armor and jewelry at 5%/level shortfall, allowing some of the benefit of these items despite their oft-excessive level requirements. I get tired of finding loot that needs +10-15 to both the town level and my level.

Bluddy
03-10-2011, 05:19 AM
Another solution would be to make it such that temporary status effects (like curses) that reduce your stats don't prevent you from using items, whereas things that affect stats directly (like items) do prevent you from using them.

On the other hand, positive status effects (like giant obelisks) should allow you to equip better equipment, but only temporarily -- your stats take precedence once it's over.

To summarize: negative effects apply from items, but not from status effects. Positive effects apply from both items and status effects. Every time a positive status effect ends or an item is equipped/unequipped, all equipment should be checked for its requirements.

Crisses
03-10-2011, 07:29 AM
I don't think items should be kicked off, just nerfed or disabled. If yor inventory is full you wouldn't want all your best items spilling all over the ground. In the time it would take to reorg inventory to grab the items, someone else could grab them leading to the type of not-cooperative play I think we'd all like to discourage.

The Coffee God
03-10-2011, 07:48 AM
Well, it's not really that I want it to be knocked off if stats don't meet the reqs, particularly during combat or just traveling around the dungeon.
As stated by others, that could not only prove hazardous to ones health, but could also lead to dissension in the ranks of co-op players.

More of what I was getting at though, was one really shouldn't be able to switch them out like that, if stats are boosted by the previous item to make the req and/or by stat potions.

Like it is if we don't meet the req in the first place, we should be stopped from putting it on, or at the very least, disable it so it can't be used if the reqs aren't met.

Bluddy
03-10-2011, 10:52 AM
Yeah I think disabling the item is a good idea. There should be an icon on the side like the broken item icon, to let you know about the problem.

Bluddy
03-10-2011, 03:53 PM
Something got messed up in the chat system and I'm not sure what it is. Characters don't use lore, simple tips, advanced tips etc.

Shadow
03-10-2011, 06:47 PM
Something got messed up in the chat system and I'm not sure what it is. Characters don't use lore, simple tips, advanced tips etc.

I'll look at it, but are you sure it's not mod related?

Valgor
03-10-2011, 08:48 PM
If any quest-giving NPC (it's usually the Warmaster) has enough available quests, you can scroll down to the bottom of their list, pick a quest,
and the scroll bar will get stuck so you can't scroll back up until you close the window and talk to them again.

Bluddy
03-11-2011, 12:30 AM
I'll look at it, but are you sure it's not mod related?

Yeah I cleared all the mods out. Characters only have the specific character speech: warmaster etc, and the personality speech.

Since the lore and tips are last in the list of ArcheTypeNpcTalking, it looks like something prevents the parser from getting there. Remember the rain talk fix? Maybe it's somehow buggy and now that the text is fixed, it's revealing a bug.

EDIT: nope, it seems like something is not right with the inheritance of NpcChats. If I comment out the IntroText in ArchetypeNpcTalking, the intro is gone, but commenting out everything but simpletips, lore and monsterhints, while increasing the percentage likelihood of lore, still doesn't show anything but personalities and things like NpcChatWarmaster. Maybe inheritance is suddenly overwriting NpcChats instead of adding to them.

EDIT: Ok here's the problem: Turning on even a single NpcChat in ArchetypeNpcNormalMale causes none of the NpcChats to be active in the base ArchetypeNpcTalking. It overrides all of them.

Shadow
03-11-2011, 11:05 AM
EDIT: Ok here's the problem: Turning on even a single NpcChat in ArchetypeNpcNormalMale causes none of the NpcChats to be active in the base ArchetypeNpcTalking. It overrides all of them.

Ah, it's an inheritance issue.

Caal
03-12-2011, 10:58 AM
An unknown person left town.

Valgor
03-12-2011, 10:21 PM
I recently encountered a unique scavenger guarding the treasure of nobody in particular.

Aet
03-12-2011, 10:33 PM
The town was naturally stormy, and quite a few missing shipment quests piled up, but it probably shouldn't have added up to this. Solving the final shipment quest did make the 'higher price' warning go away.

Also, the totem/ward effects seem to die off whenever I run around a particular corner of the latest dungeon. Picked up a fire shield - it died far too soon. So I grabbed the regen effect next to it, checked the stated duration as I approached the bend - 57 seconds left - and suddenly it, too, vanished.

Crisses
03-12-2011, 11:09 PM
Monster bug? Why can a lich raise dead on a monster that was already undead i.e. an undead naga dies, and the lich can raise dead on it??? I can't raise dead on my once-raised-now-undead creatures. I don't think I can raise monsters that happened to have been undead when I killed them. What's his secret :)

Request: Can potion vendors sell empty vials? I would think they should...

Quest-change request, probably requires editing the UI files... The critter infestation quests are pretty annoying. There doesn't seem to be more of the buggers when the townsfolk complain about them -- I wouldn't mind if I had to step on more of them to complete the quest, but I can stand there for quite some time, or run around town, and rarely find ANY. So what are they bugging out about? And if I don't solve the quest, should the infestation get worse (and hence the # of critters I have to step on should go up also?)...

Kidnapped-now-dead questgiver bug? An armorsmith ended up kidnapped to the dungeon. I had a quest for the armorsmith. Then I get a quest to rescue him. -- No problem. As I'm trudging through the dungeon I'm informed that the poor guy died, but then I find him -- he's been raised by some lich or undead totem, and he's coming after me with death in his eyes -- and an exclamation point over his head. I can't resolve the quest, clicking on him just kills him (well, makes me kill him). Should NPCs that are turned keep quests? Would the same thing happen if he went renegade? :)

EternalChampion
03-12-2011, 11:57 PM
The town was naturally stormy, and quite a few missing shipment quests piled up, but it probably shouldn't have added up to this. Solving the final shipment quest did make the 'higher price' warning go away.

Also, the totem/ward effects seem to die off whenever I run around a particular corner of the latest dungeon. Picked up a fire shield - it died far too soon. So I grabbed the regen effect next to it, checked the stated duration as I approached the bend - 57 seconds left - and suddenly it, too, vanished.

I've been having the same problem with Holy Shield, Infinite Mana, Mana Steal, etc. obelisks... they die-out almost instantly. A lot of the times, but not always. :mad:

Crisses
03-13-2011, 01:11 PM
I've been having the same problem with Holy Shield, Infinite Mana, Mana Steal, etc. obelisks... they die-out almost instantly. A lot of the times, but not always. :mad:

I've also noticed that. Very erratic -- sometimes they last a minute or two, sometimes it's under 20 seconds, which is pretty useless for some of them. Is the same thing happening with evil pool effects?

m0stly_harmless
03-14-2011, 09:49 PM
Well, it's not really that I want it to be knocked off if stats don't meet the reqs, particularly during combat or just traveling around the dungeon.
As stated by others, that could not only prove hazardous to ones health, but could also lead to dissension in the ranks of co-op players.

More of what I was getting at though, was one really shouldn't be able to switch them out like that, if stats are boosted by the previous item to make the req and/or by stat potions.

Like it is if we don't meet the req in the first place, we should be stopped from putting it on, or at the very least, disable it so it can't be used if the reqs aren't met.

Yeah I think disabling the item is a good idea. There should be an icon on the side like the broken item icon, to let you know about the problem.

If ANY of this stuff is put into place, the requirements for BOWS and MACES NEEDS to be tweaked or those weapon classes will become completely useless in this game (moreso than they already are).

Better yet, get rid of the strenght & dex potions - cause as far as most players are concerned, helping you equip that one piece of hardware that's out of reach is the only reason those things are available.

Personally, I disapprove of either of these ideas.

THOUGH, making THAT part of the HARDCORE option gameplay would be fine (as I don't play hardcore). heh

Bluddy
03-15-2011, 06:22 AM
If ANY of this stuff is put into place, the requirements for BOWS and MACES NEEDS to be tweaked or those weapon classes will become completely useless in this game (moreso than they already are).

Better yet, get rid of the strenght & dex potions - cause as far as most players are concerned, helping you equip that one piece of hardware that's out of reach is the only reason those things are available.


Looking at maces and bows, they really have very high requirements for STR and DEX, respectively. There's really no reason for them to be that high -- they're meant for classes that don't excel in those attributes. Priests have high SPR and rangers don't have anything particularly high, so I'm not sure why the numbers were set that high.

I'd say dagger stats are also a tad too demanding in terms of DEX, especially since most rogue classes can just switch to swords. At least the requirement is understandable for daggers since they are faster.

m0stly_harmless
03-15-2011, 11:53 AM
Right, so nerfing the weapons after our strenght/dex potion wears out is absolute nonsense.

Good bows and maces are easier to find now, BUT with absurd requirements to equip them still, and now talk about nerfing the equipment because of skill requirements not being met just means that characters of these classes will not get used and the weapons just take up space.

Might as well call the game Diablo at that point. Limited characters and weapon choices.

A serious step backwards for this game, IMO.

Bluddy
03-15-2011, 12:11 PM
Right, so nerfing the weapons after our strenght/dex potion wears out is absolute nonsense.

Good bows and maces are easier to find now, BUT with absurd requirements to equip them still, and now talk about nerfing the equipment because of skill requirements not being met just means that characters of these classes will not get used and the weapons just take up space.

Might as well call the game Diablo at that point. Limited characters and weapon choices.

A serious step backwards for this game, IMO.

It's very easy to fix the requirements for bows and maces, so no need to worry about it. You can check out my balance mod -- I already did it there. The thing that's a little harder to fix is the stat checking for items. That requires coding by Shadow.

m0stly_harmless
03-15-2011, 12:27 PM
That's one of my issues... we shouldn't need a "mod" to fix a perceived problem in the game.

It should be fixed within the game itself.


I still say that "stats" checking thing should be LIMITED to the "hardcore" game options - or at the least a on/off option because that will SERIOUSLY change the gameplay of Din and make it substantially harder for some classes, if not completely gimp them.

Bluddy
03-15-2011, 01:07 PM
That's one of my issues... we shouldn't need a "mod" to fix a perceived problem in the game.

It should be fixed within the game itself.


I still say that "stats" checking thing should be LIMITED to the "hardcore" game options - or at the least a on/off option because that will SERIOUSLY change the gameplay of Din and make it substantially harder for some classes, if not completely gimp them.

Fair enough, but this is the bug thread, and Shadow responds pretty well to the issues listed here. I'm just saying the bow, mace and dagger requirement issue is easy to fix, at which point stat checking wouldn't be an issue for their respective classes.

m0stly_harmless
03-15-2011, 01:13 PM
I know. Someone earlier said the potion bumps was more like a bug than a loophole. This sparked my comments. I firmly believe that it is a loophole to help with the sometimes crazy weapon/armour requirements.

I think it all depends on how it's done and applied. The end results could end up very beneficial or make the game fall completly on it's face.

I still feel it shouldn't be tinkered with - or if the change is necessary, put it in the hardcore/options selection area. (Call it "realistic requirements" or something of the like.)

Bluddy
03-15-2011, 04:20 PM
The thing I'm not crazy about with putting all these options in hardcore or whatever, is that ultimately there's no unified game experience. I'll just give a few examples.

The fact that you can start at any level dungeon you want seems like a good idea -- it's so open. However, what that means, is that there is no predictable path that a character takes. There's no real difficulty curve to adjust. It's impossible to make an economy that's anywhere near a real element of the game since players can farm whatever level they want. The same applies to items.

Another element that exhibits the problem with making things optional, is hunger. It's in the game, but only as an option; probably very few players actually play with it on. If it was a full element of the game, it could be put in properly and adjusted to work with the other elements. Instead it kind of just hangs there -- not really useful, but too annoying in its current form to put as part of the real game.

This is why I don't think this should be another feature shoved into the 'checkbox' or 'hardcore' category. The gameplay is too fragmented as it is with a whole bunch of options that aren't really used much. Users expect that once their stats don't match items' minimal requirements, the items will no longer be usable. This is a basic expectation from just about all other RPGs. It should be part of the game. If there's a problem with this basic mechanic, that problem should be fixed. In the case of bows/maces/daggers, the problem is easily fixed.

I also think foods should be spread out over the levels and quality foods should disappear, as has been mentioned before. We have enough food types as it is. I think Shadow said that he couldn't change the value of the foods since that'll throw off current characters, but I think it'll be ok -- foods are temporary items anyway. In the worst case, people will discover that their current foods are of a different level than they expected. They'll go through them, and that'll be that.