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m0stly_harmless
03-06-2011, 10:20 PM
Ok. I've had it up to here with some of these skills/auras/spells...


So I'm going to make a thread about them.


Post what you've found works best for countering a skill/spell/aura on a monster/boss.

Ex:


TARIS and VAZ -> THORNS aura. 100% MAX damage reflected back. Like, seriously? Oh, VAZ has the wonderful ability to regen health too. Yay.

How do you deal with that? (short from abandoning the town) I'm getting tired of having my proverbial ass handed to me by these "thorny" characters.

:mad:

DeathKnight1728
03-06-2011, 11:05 PM
What is your build?

The Coffee God
03-06-2011, 11:35 PM
TARIS and VAZ -> THORNS aura. 100% MAX damage reflected back. Like, seriously? Oh, VAZ has the wonderful ability to regen health too. Yay.

How do you deal with that? (short from abandoning the town) I'm getting tired of having my proverbial ass handed to me by these "thorny" characters.

:mad:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/thecoffeegod/smilies/lol.gif
I don't remember the name of the boss, but my friend ran into one with Thorns & health regen on her 87 lvl Warrior character.

Which was a pain and a half considering one strike from her and she just about one-shoted herself (and she had something like 2000 HP or something like that).

She tried running to town to heal then coming back, but he regened so fast, he was full health by the time she got back.

He was right next to the level/town teleport luckily, so she finally gave up trying to do it without dying, and decided just to eat the XP debt, hit him a few times (when she could actually hit him that is), die, race back with the telepot, hit him a few more times, die, race back, and so on and so forth...

I think she died a total of 23 times doing that, but he did eventually die because his regen wasn't fast enough for that.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v295/thecoffeegod/smilies/lol.gif
Not long after that (and running into another group of 3 super-powerful bosses) she started a new Necromancer character and hasn't been back to her Warrior since.

DeathKnight1728
03-07-2011, 12:18 AM
This might not help but if you get a lot of deep wounds on you, it might do him in from a light strike over time. Whenever i have to fight a boss like that, i manage by not using my heaviest hits and hoping for some deep wounds. Usually at a high enough level your doing so much damage that your hits from deep wounds kill mostly anything, especially from warrior type classes.

Manumitted
03-07-2011, 01:13 AM
Some ideas:
First of all, Thorns refers to the mob's normal damage, not yours. The harder you hit him, the fewer times you get Thorned.

Ranged attacks usually* incur no Thorns riposte.

If you're not a caster or bowman and lack any ranged special attacks, switch to your max-damage slowest weapon or max Deep Wounds gear/weapon configuration, in either case attacking with your slowest special attack if it's slower or more damaging than the normal weapon swing, to minimize the number of incoming Thorns blows. With the Deep Wounds approach, run off if you can after each blow to reduce your exposure to normal attacks while you manage the Thorns damage and let the DW do their thing.

Melee types should also equip every Crushing Blow-boosting item you can, if not already at 100% Crush. Dual Garrip's Charms should do the trick nicely, or whatever jewelry replaces them later.

Look for a nearby Life Steal obelisk or preferably LS enchanter buff. That 50% life leech will keep a decent melee-er alive against anything that can't one-shot him.

If the enchanter doesn't have an LS buff, try Champion, Concentration: Speed, or Giant. You probably won't get lucky enough to activate a LS proc in time even if you have a good LS weapon.

Pause after each blow to consider your next move. Have no shame in these unrealistic tactics: these mobs are cheesily overpowered and deserve to be cheesed in return.

And obviously don't engage without full HP, plenty of strong healing potions, and your strongest foodstuff active.

*I've been Thorned while Thunderbolting something and have duly reported this as a bug.

EternalChampion
03-07-2011, 03:00 PM
I've dealt with LS bosses and thorny ones... I don't know how all the numbers work, or why this works, but...

With my pure lvl 37 Demon Hunter build, I use Spirit Strike (lvl12) as my main attack always, as my mana regen is quicker than it's usage. An enemy can have up to 5 debuffs of Spirit Strike at a time at -120 defense/attack each. That's -600 defense/attack while I'm wailing away at +180% physical damage in addition to my Energy Shield (measly lvl 3) giving me +135 defense/block plus causing them another 20% damage if they manage to hit me. Pretty much every boss ends up swinging and missing while I Deep Cut, Crush, and Crit till they bleed out. It just seems Spirit Strike can rapidly make any enemies helpless. :)

Max_Powers
03-07-2011, 06:34 PM
It just seems Spirit Strike can rapidly make any enemies helpless. :)

I have never used it, but doesn't your statement there kind of make Spirit Strike a little OP? Maybe it just sounds that way.

EternalChampion
03-07-2011, 08:10 PM
I have never used it, but doesn't your statement there kind of make Spirit Strike a little OP? Maybe it just sounds that way.

Well, one thing it doesn't (seem to) effect is magic attacks. Other than that, I've wondered if it is my character build or a possible oversight.

The thing is, when I'm surrounded I have to spread the Spirit Strike around and/or focus on the most dangerous baddie to incapacitate him, doing the Ravage/instant Spirit Strike technique. Luckily I found a one-handed axe that is amazing-- pretty much causing deep wounds constantly, with a nice DPS. I went through a Frost Rylor overlord with a 15 Frost Rylor group of bodyguards (incl. several champions) in less than a minute-- even while being stunned several times-- because they all kept bleeding to death. The boss even tried to run away!:)

Max_Powers
03-07-2011, 08:19 PM
Well, one thing it doesn't (seem to) effect is magic attacks. Other than that, I've wondered if it is my character build or a possible oversight.

The thing is, when I'm surrounded I have to spread the Spirit Strike around and/or focus on the most dangerous baddie to incapacitate him, doing the Ravage/instant Spirit Strike technique. Luckily I found a one-handed axe that is amazing-- pretty much causing deep wounds constantly, with a nice DPS. I went through a Frost Rylor overlord with a 15 Frost Rylor group of bodyguards (incl. several champions) in less than a minute-- even while being stunned several times-- because they all kept bleeding to death. The boss even tried to run away!:)

Ah, I didn't account for it being a single enemy thing.


I have a paladin/weaponmaster that is over 100% crush and 80(something)% bleed. That plus whirlwind and I can bust up a big monster party real quick!:D

Bak
03-08-2011, 12:44 AM
Pause after each blow to consider your next move. Have no shame in these unrealistic tactics: these mobs are cheesily overpowered and deserve to be cheesed in return.

Sounds like Manumitted and I worship the same (evil) gods. (Don't tell Din.) :D

Pausing also gives time to consider food and health potions. May also want to consider a green (vitality) or red (strength) potion.

alstein
03-08-2011, 11:28 PM
Poisoning/poison or flaming weapon from an empty vial is another option, as that will also do damage over time.

Can Reflect damage be reflected?

DeathKnight1728
03-08-2011, 11:45 PM
Afaik, the only way to beat those juggernauts like taris is to have a defense so high that they barely can hit you and...to slowly but surely (and patiently) wittle them down with attacks while running. Another thing ive noticed that has helped me so far is to use either demon roar from the demonologist or terrorize from the reaver. They both lower defense and chance to hit alot. A lvl 20 terrorize lowers defense and attack -600. A lvl 20 demon roar lowers -300. Demon roar can also be used 4 times-That is -1200 defense and attack !!!

m0stly_harmless
03-09-2011, 11:20 AM
I appreciate all the posts! Glad to see I'm not the only getting trounced on every-so-often.

There are a few tactics I might just have to try. Keeping in mind the stupendous variety of characters we play, posting what seemed to work with said char makes this thread a beneficial repository of info. :cool:


(BTW, my char in question is a Weaponmaster/Sorcerer and yes, every Thunderbolt I handed out to this baddie one shotted me. I eventually caved and skipped town. :( )

DeathKnight1728
03-09-2011, 11:46 AM
The problem for me is usually major hasted and thorns. Thorns is bad when fighting against a death night and almost a nightmare when its a mimic. When a mimic or shifter is major hasted, there's only so much you can do as they are faster than even attacks such as berserk which is at .6 seconds. Giant mimics are tough too but they generally fall to my characters pretty easy as i am more defensive and if they cant hit me, then i eventually get em.

Crisses
03-09-2011, 04:49 PM
(BTW, my char in question is a Weaponmaster/Sorcerer and yes, every Thunderbolt I handed out to this baddie one shotted me. I eventually caved and skipped town. :( )

I think that Thunderbolt has a bug and isn't supposed to do that. needs the developer to make a ruling on it. Maaaaaybe that's a stat that can be fixed in a plugin...doubt it's hard coded.

Arjun123
03-11-2011, 04:09 PM
My level 39 Thief/Druid, in a level 38 town, encountered one of these monstrosities yesterday. It was the "Superboss Grog," a giant undead wailer with 100% thorns and superfast regeneration. I tried various strategies to defeat it, but after dying about a dozen times I gave up. With a dex potion, I had about only a 12% chance of being hit by a level 39 monster. Grog couldn't hit me, but my own attacks would hurt me far more than they hurt him. I was one-shotted by the thorns at least several times. Maybe it would be a good idea to tone down the thorns a bit, or perhaps add upgraded projectiles useable by all classes at higher levels. Fire Bomb/Ice Bomb are pretty much useless at higher levels. And please do not reinstate the penalty for abandoning towns. Monsters like this make abandonment a necessity, and the multiple deaths already inflict a large enough penalty.

Manumitted
03-11-2011, 04:40 PM
My level 39 Thief/Druid, in a level 38 town, encountered one of these monstrosities yesterday. It was the "Superboss Grog," a giant undead wailer with 100% thorns and superfast regeneration. I tried various strategies to defeat it, but after dying about a dozen times I gave up.

Did you try de-training your Thief skills and pumping Earthquake and Earth Mastery? Earthquake has such a long range and such a good chance to cause cave-ins that you could keep your distance and bury/trap him in that overpowered hazard if the main damage didn't get him.

Arjun123
03-11-2011, 06:37 PM
Did you try de-training your Thief skills and pumping Earthquake and Earth Mastery? Earthquake has such a long range and such a good chance to cause cave-ins that you could keep your distance and bury/trap him in that overpowered hazard if the main damage didn't get him.
No, I didn't try that, Manumitted, although it is an excellent suggestion. For some reason, I don't like the idea of de-training skills and training in new skills just to defeat a single monster, although this is probably the only alternative to town abandonment, in the case of this character. It would be nice if skill points were sufficient to train in a broad array of skills, but in the case of this character, I find that I have to dedicate the lion's share to the dagger mastery and stalker skills just to keep up with the monsters. Most of the remainder go to Strength of Stone and Disarm Trap, as it's nice to run around (faster, with SoS) disarming every trap in sight for extra XP.

DeathKnight1728
03-11-2011, 10:04 PM
Arjun im not sure if this will help but, theres a skill on the druid that adds 25 armor. If you cast that at a decent level (8-10), it might absorb the damage you take from nutcase thorns guys. It would be wise to cast it before you go into stalker form. It lasts 5 minutes so you shouldnt have to recast it much. Im not sure if this will help.

Arjun123
03-12-2011, 02:46 AM
Thanks, DeathKnight. This too is a good suggestion as well. I've invested a bit in Barkskin (2 levels, +50 armor), but this clearly was not sufficient to make a dent in the thorns damage. My approach with this character was to invest heavily in offense. By level 39, with a 56 DPS dagger I am able to inflict over 300 DPS while in Stalker form with Strength of Stone cast. I can thus one- or two-shot most monsters, and even take out most bosses very quickly. The limitation of this build, however, is exposed by these major thorn super bosses. My rapid flurries of attacks result basically in almost instant death! It happened so quickly the first time I actually had no idea how I died; only when I went back, and checked out the boss more carefully did I realize how this happened. Clearly, there are builds that would bolster defense, although at the expense of offense. I think I'm going to let this character rest for awhile, and try out a Demon Hunter. I was intrigued by your Bale 1-Eye character, and would like to try out this class myself. They seem have an interesting mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. And my thief/druid character found an amazing legendary 80 DPS Blood Reaver axe that would be perfect for this build. Thanks for the inspiration!

Max_Powers
03-12-2011, 03:22 PM
Thanks, DeathKnight. This too is a good suggestion as well. I've invested a bit in Barkskin (2 levels, +50 armor), but this clearly was not sufficient to make a dent in the thorns damage. My approach with this character was to invest heavily in offense. By level 39, with a 56 DPS dagger I am able to inflict over 300 DPS while in Stalker form with Strength of Stone cast. I can thus one- or two-shot most monsters, and even take out most bosses very quickly. The limitation of this build, however, is exposed by these major thorn super bosses. My rapid flurries of attacks result basically in almost instant death! It happened so quickly the first time I actually had no idea how I died; only when I went back, and checked out the boss more carefully did I realize how this happened. Clearly, there are builds that would bolster defense, although at the expense of offense. I think I'm going to let this character rest for awhile, and try out a Demon Hunter. I was intrigued by your Bale 1-Eye character, and would like to try out this class myself. They seem have an interesting mix of offensive and defensive capabilities. And my thief/druid character found an amazing legendary 80 DPS Blood Reaver axe that would be perfect for this build. Thanks for the inspiration!

Just curious to know how good your equipment was on this character? Great equipment can make all the difference. Sometimes the best thing to do is when a character starts to struggle you put it on the shelf and play another. Hopefully, this will get you some more, better equipment for the other character.

Another option you might could have tried was to fight the boss in non-stalker form. The damage/speed reduction, plus maybe a really large vitality potion, might have got the job done.

Ultimately, deep wounds is amazing versus these guys. They just melt like butter. I also like to hit them with a DOT skill(for example: Holy Smite)to off set some of their regen. Also, a flaming oil by itself isn't all that helpful, but with a DOT you can stop, maybe even reverse the creatures regen.

And finally, to your earlier point about the XP penalty - I disagree. I try and never abandon a town. The only time I really do is when there is a zombie stuck in the floor, blocking my path to the final boss and there is no other option. You can get help beating the bad guys via multiplayer. And you clearly didn't exhaust all your options first. To me, that is why the XP penalty was there to begin with. Abandon because you have to, not just because it is more convenient. Again, though, just my two cents.

Good luck with current and future characters :)

Arjun123
03-14-2011, 02:02 AM
I actually have pretty good equipment with this character, including some fantastic armor, and jewelry, most notably the Yuxi gloves to boost Deep Wounds, the Assassin's belt, Riddick's necklace (spelling?), and Fryse's Blue Ring, all of which boost the chance of landing a crit. I also have Fryse's White Ring, which causes very frequent ice storms when you are fighting with a dagger in Stalker form. However, I am not too happy with my weapon, a 56 DPS dagger. It was great when I found it at level 26, but 14 levels later, it is not quite as good. I'd like to upgrade, but haven't had any luck lately with dagger drops or weaponsmiths. So I have taken your advice, Max_Powers, and shelving this character temporarily.

I actually did try fighting the thorn boss with all sorts of potion buffs, although I did not try fighting it in non-stalker form. Since I invested in many levels of Stalker, this form considerably boosts my chances of landing both crits and deep wounds, and I was hoping to wear him down by landing deep wounds, running away & healing up, and returning. I didn't succeed, but perhaps it would have worked if I tried harder. Generally speaking, like you, I loath abandoning towns, but after dying at least a dozen times I gave up. Next time, I encounter a boss like that, I will definitely try harder.

EternalChampion
03-14-2011, 10:29 PM
Hey, Bale 1-Eye is MY character! ;) And he's still kicking tail and taking numbers at level 41. Mostly due to this sweet weapon, The Butcher. :eek: Check-out my DPS. Now add Spirit Strike (which stack up to 5) and all the other passive offensive/defensive skills-- this guy is DEADLY. Really, the only time I die is usually fire related-- like I don't realize I'm on fire, or I'm mobbed on top of a few Rylor bombs and can't escape in time. :mad:

I should add the almost every hit is a crit, crush, deep wound with Spirit Strike and Ravage. Add Circle of Power and wooo-hooo!

EternalChampion
03-26-2011, 03:37 PM
Here's a screen shot of Bale 1-Eye in action against a 100% max damage-thorned Legend, caught right before I deliver Cruel Claw his deathblow.