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bushwhacker2k
03-20-2011, 06:07 PM
When a skill starts at a certain level of effectiveness but gives less and less as levels in the skill are gained is known as diminishing returns by the people I've spoken to in the past.

Technically speaking, any skills that are linear (i.e. give the same amount in one level as they did in the last level) are technically suffering from diminishing returns because of the fact that every level it costs more to raise.

This has been brought up before by a few posters here and I just wanted to raise this point to elaborate.

BTW How far do you normally get with your characters before you decide that you can't really make an acceptable amount of progress anymore?

I tend to start out well (bizarrely well at the first dungeon, as creatures fall to my wizard's staff) but soon find myself being overwhelmed by enemies who just don't seem to suffer from diminishing returns in leveling the same way I do.

Bak
03-20-2011, 07:13 PM
Technically speaking, any skills that are linear (i.e. give the same amount in one level as they did in the last level) are technically suffering from diminishing returns because of the fact that every level it costs more to raise.

Disagree with the reason given. The skill may cost more, but the number of skill points given per level increases also.

"Linear" suffers because any skill that is a percentage increase will get the benefits of better equipment, or the increase in skill levels with related skills (like Fire Mastery does with Fiery Blast). "Linear" is better at the start when equipment is poor and all skill levels are low, but gets outclassed later.

bushwhacker2k
03-20-2011, 07:35 PM
I somewhat see what you're saying, but in the end the points given per level don't keep up with a skill and with that being the case monsters start outclassing us rather quickly.

Manumitted
03-21-2011, 01:08 AM
BTW How far do you normally get with your characters before you decide that you can't really make an acceptable amount of progress anymore?

I tend to start out well (bizarrely well at the first dungeon, as creatures fall to my wizard's staff) but soon find myself being overwhelmed by enemies who just don't seem to suffer from diminishing returns in leveling the same way I do.

The game is designed to be easy for the first 10 levels or so as a gentle start to the learning curve. You're expected to have better equipment and some appropriate skills by the teen levels. Casters should have an AOE spell of some sort, and melee types should get their melee AOE skill. I would probably sell out on skills to get a new Warrior or Weaponmaster hybrid the Whirlwind skill at L5, for example.

The only character I've effectively shelved is my Priest, who made L13 before even massive twinked equipment couldn't make his slow, slow killing pace bearable anymore. Trouble also loomed down the road with no meaningful AOE or even non-damaging crowd control.

My L15 Hunter / Thief is probably the next to go. I'm not wild about either bows or the traps or the slow, luring playstyle they engender. It takes too much twinking to get a decent bow and get it equipped. The character is a little squishy for close up wetwork with a dagger in the long term.

Bluddy
03-21-2011, 05:53 AM
This is what my balance mod is mostly about, and what Shadow's recent patch (1.023) is about. Spells with linear damage cannot -- by definition -- keep up with the monsters. You can see this in the different graphs I posted when discussing this stuff.

The only way to use spells throughout the game as your main weapon is if you buy points in the mastery related to your spells. It makes a massive difference.

After patch 1.023, things should be somewhat better, but there's still a little adjustment required to make each spell able to function without requiring its mastery.