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Shadow
10-21-2015, 02:54 PM
Patch 0.902 of Zombasite is available over on the Zombasite patch page (http://www.soldak.com/Zombasite/Patches.html). Changes can be read here (http://www.soldak.com/Zombasite/Patches/Changes.html). This patch makes the clan armory easier to work with, makes it easier to see which NPCs are friends or enemies, improves higher rarity items, increases the movement speed, greatly enhances summons, and fixes a bunch of other minor issues.

Tyakraman
10-21-2015, 03:41 PM
Something I just noticed:

The tooltip for the "Win" and "Lose" buttons still mentions the winning/loosing conditions for "this sector". Maybe it should be changed to "this region".

Tyakraman
10-21-2015, 04:08 PM
Also there is a quest visible on the map name tooltip that isn't available on any quest screen. (its the "Avenge the death of Tateus (Immortal Shadows)" (That's my clan) on the "Violent Woodland (1)" map).

Since I didn't know which files you need, I've attached all of them.

EDIT: I just reloaded that game and the quest on the tooltip is gone... Not sure if its still available in that file I uploaded...

ScrObot
10-21-2015, 04:26 PM
Also there is a quest visible on the map name tooltip that isn't available on any quest screen.

There are some quests given by NPCs in the wild, or by objects; I'm guessing this may be one of them.

Tyakraman
10-21-2015, 04:35 PM
Hm. But wouldn't it be better, if the quest wasn't visible anywhere until you find that quest giver? The treasure map quests don't show until you find the treasure map...

Although the quest showing up on the tooltip might give a good hint that you might (re)visit that area, but it also confuses me/players.

Maybe it would be even better if the tootip just said "there might be a quest found here" or something like that...

In general I'm not sure if it is so wise to give the player like 10+ quests at the beginning of a new game/region. Maybe put them on a timer and reveal them over the first ten minutes or something like that? This way one would be more inclined to read the whole questtext and be more... connected to them... Just a thought...

What I really do like a lot (and what's not really new) is the coloured * or ^ next to the quests. This is such a good feature! I'm not sure if it's explained to the new players though...

Roswitha
10-21-2015, 05:05 PM
If monsters can now spawn in empty town areas, does that mean the areas will have working gates?

Tyakraman
10-21-2015, 05:17 PM
If monsters can now spawn in empty town areas, does that mean the areas will have working gates?

Nope. I've just visited one. No gates just monsters.

Tuidjy
10-21-2015, 05:47 PM
I guess this will be the new feedback thread until the next patch. So...

When you attempt to disable the help topics, the warning message is still talking about a space ship, rather than a fantasy character.

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When you mouse over an NPC's defense stat in their character sheet, you still see the player's parry/evade/etc... rather than the NPC's.

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I have seen two demon-hunters so far. They both had daggers as their only proficiency. Even if it is the luck of the draw, that is ridiculous. They should have a chance for swords, hammers, or axes, not daggers.

Tyakraman
10-21-2015, 05:52 PM
I've encountered an elite enemy with the "something Flux" aura/ability. My shadow bolt projectiles would just stop right in front of him and move with him but never hit. After a while he had like ten shadow bolts hovering around him. I'm not sure if it was supposed to do that.

Tuidjy
10-21-2015, 06:56 PM
Three times in a row, my foraging party spends 10 minutes in an area, and then returns home, with no message and no food. There is no doubt, we'll starve before I can make another attempt. All five of the members had fishing/trapping/foraging skills, and the target area was a forest.

Shadow
10-21-2015, 07:02 PM
Three times in a row, my foraging party spends 10 minutes in an area, and then returns home, with no message and no food. There is no doubt, we'll starve before I can make another attempt. All five of the members had fishing/trapping/foraging skills, and the target area was a forest.

That's strange. Can you email me your save game?

Tuidjy
10-21-2015, 07:18 PM
I did make a copy... A few seconds after the party returned. But I'll e-mail you that, maybe it will do it again. I'll let you know whether it does it for me.

Tyakraman
10-21-2015, 08:22 PM
I just picked up a rescue note that gave me the quest "Find the (my clan name)". It seems it is missing a word. The quest description also says "We don't know what has happened to The. Please deal with it".

Tuidjy
10-21-2015, 08:37 PM
In my current game a clan tried to start (and failed) a rumor about me with another clan... The problem is, the other two clans have have never met, and should not even know about each other.

Zengrath
10-21-2015, 09:39 PM
I'm sure this is because i'm resuming a town from before this patch. i noticed all the empty town lots are spawning level 1 creatures and i'm in a level 12ish area, again most likely because i'm resuming an old town. i'll see if this is resolved on my next one.

Zengrath
10-21-2015, 09:46 PM
I'm finding that a diplomacy win is practically impossible. Every town i've done so far when i find all the last people left and i'm allied with everyone in game, there seems to simply be no way to get them to like each other. Every other race tends to be at about 30-50 standing by time they discover each other. As far as i can tell even though i'm allied with all of them i can't seem to figure out a way to influence them to win in an efficient manner. Only option i see is to start rumors but cost of this is absolutely insane and wiping them out seems to be the easiest option. I remember old games wining by diplomacy all the time, i loved wining this way rather then being bad guy and killing everyone, but i don't see it's worth in this game.

I also cannot understand how winning with food is remotely possible, maybe if i had only 1-3 people in my clan but with 10 clan mates and other clans having around same amount or more, trying to find like 700+ food when i'm always hovering around 100 and starving seems to be impossible.

So far at this point it seems winning by destroying all other clans is by far significantly easier and faster and more efficient then any other method, and fact that your food is always so low and can't find enough in hunting parties or monster drops i feel like raiding clans is only way to keep my food above starving.

This is my biggest concern with game at this point, i'm sure it'll be balanced in the future.

EDIT: oh i completly forgot about wining by adventuring, i suppose that is doable however still by time i have done most of quests in area i'm so far beyond powerful and last few clans have few unequipped clans left i tend to run out of patience and just quickly wipe out the last couple clans left that hasn't been destroyed in wars with other clans yet within a few minutes to finish a map. Still wining by conquering other tribes is bar far the easiest.

Tyakraman
10-21-2015, 11:34 PM
(...)I also cannot understand how winning with food is remotely possible, maybe if i had only 1-3 people in my clan but with 10 clan mates and other clans having around same amount or more, trying to find like 700+ food when i'm always hovering around 100 and starving seems to be impossible.

So far at this point it seems winning by destroying all other clans is by far significantly easier and faster and more efficient then any other method, and fact that your food is always so low and can't find enough in hunting parties or monster drops i feel like raiding clans is only way to keep my food above starving.

This is my biggest concern with game at this point, i'm sure it'll be balanced in the future.

EDIT: oh i completly forgot about wining by adventuring, i suppose that is doable however still by time i have done most of quests in area i'm so far beyond powerful and last few clans have few unequipped clans left i tend to run out of patience and just quickly wipe out the last couple clans left that hasn't been destroyed in wars with other clans yet within a few minutes to finish a map. Still wining by conquering other tribes is bar far the easiest.

In my last game I wanted to win by Adventuring. In the end I had to take special care not to pick up any food during my questing to avoid the Economic Win. It really helps to choose members of your hunting party by skill, so they get boni for scavenging for food. also sometimes they cook while in the camp. I could have quite easily won by Economic Victory with five clan members.

Although I have to admit, that by that time I achieved the Adventuring Victory I could have killed the other clans multiple times...

Oblivion
10-22-2015, 04:11 AM
I've been getting what seems to be horrible memory leaks in certain dungeons. If I save and exit and then resume it seems to go away. It comes back eventually though.

The clan food tab now has the food per hour ticking back and forth between 2 values.

On some of the Rogue abilities, after I use them my character is locked into standing still for about 1-2 seconds after the target dies. Really frustrating, especially when I need to run from fireballs haha.

Some level 40 NPCs had abilities with 0 skill ranks in them. They had no tooltips besides the names.

I found a "Bonus XP Room" in the middle of a desert (unsure if intentional), and in addition the Bonus XP wasn't giving me any bonus XP.

I seem to not be able to remove the Attack command from my hotbar for another skill slot. Also the rogues linked abilities cannot be removed unless they are all removed at once. If these are to stay, I would really like extra hotbars with assignable hotkeys.

Tyakraman
10-22-2015, 01:27 PM
I just encountered my Arch-Nemesis for the first time... sort of...

He formed a group with two other elites and started roaming the land. But he was not listet as my Arch-Nemesis anymore. So he was just another quest related elite boss... Is that supposed to be happen like that?

Felt good to finally shut this guy up though :)

Shadow
10-22-2015, 04:13 PM
Your Arch-Nemesis isn't supposed to be forming groups.

Tuidjy
10-22-2015, 05:42 PM
I appreciate the extra info about food consumption, but it is definitely wrong, either in how it is computed, or in how it is displayed. The three snapshots below are of my inviting a third, fourth and a fifth clan member.

As I hired the fourth member, who had no applicable skills, my food consumption per hour went down, which makes no sense.

As I hired the fifth member, who had farming, baking and brewing, the food consumption show way up, despite the usage per meal going drastically down, as it should.

Something is wrong.

http://i.imgur.com/BNHumoi.jpg

Shadow
10-22-2015, 05:49 PM
I'll look at it, but it might be correct. There are several things that can increase food usage temporarily like adventuring, infection, and a few quests.

Tuidjy
10-22-2015, 06:53 PM
One of my companions constantly attacks exploding barrels, even underground. She is a mage, and uses her staff. She has been lucky so far, but if she keeps doing this as trap damage increases, she will soon die.

Companions should NOT attack scenery or neutral objects until the main character does. And yes, I am sure I have not attacked the barrels in question first.

Oblivion
10-22-2015, 09:51 PM
Forgot to mention a few other things. The quick potion to ally NPCs uses your highest level one, which can render them unable to drink it and you have to drop the higher level potions in order to heal them.

The "Ambush" event seems to happen more than once on chests or other objects, and I've found myself surrounded by 30 enemies many a time.

I came to an area that I hadn't explored all game and there was a Necromancer who raised around 40 Zombie Mountain Saurians. With the NPC summoned bonus ,it was practically unstoppable. I hit save and exit and resumed and they all vanished as well.

It also seems like the "Soul Eater" perk is fairly useless, I ended up just unlearning it because I didn't see any effectiveness.

NPC companions also don't use healthstones in dungeons, only at home.

DeathKnight1728
10-22-2015, 10:23 PM
I have question-What about if you get the infection in a previous game and it carries over and everytime you die it stays as well. Is that supposed to happen or not and if it is what do you do to combat that?

Throwback
10-23-2015, 10:37 AM
I have some more feedback:

1. The increased run speed is now faster than the fire nova trap, rendering it somewhat useless unless you are in a corner. I had gotten used to the slower run speed already so I wonder what else changes with faster speeds. Off the top of my head: melee can close with ranged faster, semi-surrounds will be easier to escape, monsters approach faster.

2. I'm level 9 and haven't even come close to dying which is not what I expected after playing Din's Curse. Does this game get hard? At the moment it feels very easy. This might have something to do with point 3.

3. I'm at least a couple of hours in and I haven't come across a single other clan. Furthermore, I'm still running into level 1-2 areas. Maybe this is my own fault because I tend to play like a completionist (it's hard to remember I don't *have* to do all the quests!). Whilst I am slowly adjusting my playstyle, no other clans is pretty boring. I have found 3 dead towns so far, although admittedly 2 AI have been wiped out already (is that normal?) so 2 of them might be those towns. [edit: this is just the rambling of an overtired person]

4. Unpopulated towns are *packed* with monsters now that monsters can spawn there (unusually so, probably due to the large amounts of ground space). Is it possible to tone down the spawn rates for empty towns? There are no quests for the dead towns, so lots of monsters is currently just fodder/time. I like the idea of empty towns feeling 'dead' or 'creepy', but still have a couple of monsters hanging around. I'd probably vote for a return to 0 monsters over the current spawn rate.

5. The system for accepting quests is bugging me a bit. Again, possibly because I need to be more familiar, but I would like to be able to look at all the quests in the area I'm in and accept them. At the moment they are occasionally sorted by area which is nice, except that I still have to click on and read each quest before I can tell which area it is for - and I do actually have to read, because many of the names are so similar or so complex (eg the names of areas that are dungeons of another area; or areas that have the same name as another area but a different level). Off the top of my head I would probably go for a text colour system to indicate quest urgency, and put the location in the title of each quest.

6. Argh lost this point, thanks vBulletin for logging me out while I was drafting....
- I miss the feeling of knowing my town, the warmaster always giving boss quests, the steward looking after the town, that one guy who always %^**&^%ng starves...can we have some (or all) quests given out by clan members?
- I would happily give up handing in quests from the wild - I'd prefer to be forced to return to the quest-giver. I have no connection to my town at the moment. TP back, go to craft table, pedestals, maybe stash, leave. In hindsight I loved that mental respite my town gave me in Din's.
- quests from clan members would encourage increasing clan size to get more quests
- don't get rid of the item distribution via craft table - it's awesome!

Shadow
10-23-2015, 12:15 PM
I have question-What about if you get the infection in a previous game and it carries over and everytime you die it stays as well. Is that supposed to happen or not and if it is what do you do to combat that?

Infections should not carry over when you die.

Tuidjy
10-23-2015, 03:21 PM
I dislike the way everyone moves faster now. It was possible to get fast movement even before, through items and skills. Now that everyone moves fast, spellcasters are much weaker, everything happens at melee range, and very often characters will be chasing each other around pillars and doorways, like in a Benny Hill show.

Bring the old move speed back, in combat at the very less - if you are consuming stamina, you are moving more like a combatant concerned about his safety, and less like a Olympic class sprinter with a hot chilly pepper up his ass.

jazzable
10-23-2015, 03:40 PM
Yeah, havung the same problem here. Some (not all) followers seem to bug out under certain conditions and start attacking objects.

Tuidjy
10-23-2015, 05:03 PM
I am completely baffled by food.

I've had 5 members consuming food at 65% and needing 92 units per hour. I have also had 15 members consuming food at 50% and needing 94 units per hour. I have had food requirements fluctuate from 64 to 128 with only two quests in the area, neither of them for my clan. For a very important resource, that can sap your fighting strength, and is one of the win conditions, food is COMPETELY NON-INTUITIVE.

It should be absolutely clear how food consumption works, not only to a veteran player, but to a beginner. The current breakdown is inadequate, even if it is accurate, which I hope it is not, because that makes me an idiot for not being able to figure out the rules.

The player should be able to tell why his clan's consumption jumped from 100% to 200%, what quests need to be resolved to normalize things, which clan members are affecting food consumption and how, and there should be no way in hell that 6 people eat as much 16, when their food utilization skills are more or less the same.

Shadow
10-23-2015, 05:57 PM
I just found a bug in the food usage per hour display that is probably causing a lot of the confusion. It will be fixed in 0.903.

Tuidjy
10-23-2015, 06:06 PM
For five real time hours, I have been trying to get an adventuring win. The number of quests has been fluctuating between 6 and 2, but I cannot knock them out. It simply takes too long to locate a single enemy in a maze like area, and by the time I do, more quests have popped.

Yes, I am taking out those quests that generate others first, but the game simply generates more.

Yes, I know you can pay to locate bosses, but the costs are prohibitive given that there is no way to reliably generate cash.

Yes, I know that I could wipe the clans out, but I do not want to backstab people who have not wronged me, and no, I cannot get any of the other wins - my foraging parties return empty handed, and I am feeding my men from looting, and there is no way to bring other clans together, except for, you guessed it, more cash that the character has seen in hr life.

I strongly suggest that rumors, locating bosses, etc... is done by clan members with the appropriate skills assigned on a mission, as opposed through cash that is paid to whom, exactly?

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I used treasure maps until all of my active quests were treasure runs, which I can do quickly.

I tried rushing through them 5 left, 4 left, 3 left, 2 left... and BANG three quests incoming.

It looks to me that there is a mechanism that generates quests if it looks that the player is getting close to an adventuring run. Please check for something to that effect.

ScrObot
10-23-2015, 06:50 PM
Yes, I know you can pay to locate bosses, but the costs are prohibitive given that there is no way to reliably generate cash.

I've got just shy of 10g on my level 32 ranger. Here's my typical routine:


Fill up my inventory adventuring.
Go back to town, identify and distribute gear to clan.
Go through each of the clan trading screens using the "Anything you would like?" button. Yes, they have to have enough money to buy what they want to put it in there, but you can also click it multiple times to cycle through options. They only want stuff they will use, not garbage.
Bleed them dry of money.
Salvage the low-value stuff, high value stuff I stick in my stash for future clan usage, clan trading and/or selling to vendors (if I ever actually find one).
Lather, rinse, repeat.

Usually by the time I've filled up my inventory again, most of the clans have at least a few silver. You can also buy stuff from them (food and potions are always good) or pay for a treaty to replenish their cash supply, then trade them gear back for your cash.

Tuidjy
10-23-2015, 07:16 PM
I have 5g on my level 22 wizard as well. It's just that it will not last if I try to make clans like each other, or get into the habit of dropping 3-8 silvers to locate bosses for quests.

I always leech all of the other clans' cash as well. It's still not enough to maintain a cash flow which will allow you to negate the boredom of:
- identifying items one by one
- traversing previously explored areas looking for the random smuggler
- ignoring the diplomacy panel because of prohibiting costs

The whole cash economy needs to get scrapped. Getting rid of the stupid cash for skills was the first step. Now all members need a fatigue stat, and screw cash.

You want rumors? Assign a gossip to sit in a clan's town, risking his life if they get hit.

You want an area mapped or cleared? Send a rogue.

You want firepower for a quest? Send a party, and tag along if necessary.

You want food, potions, etc... Make as many teams as you have people for, and have them go out again when they have rested.

You do not want to have to come home every time some zombie parasite wanders there? Assign a team on perimeter patrol - they will circle the town, and engage any hostile.

You want items identified? Come to town, hit a button, and your members with 'sage' personalities get fatigue.

THIS will make clan management alive, not a one hour timer and an obscure food consumption stat. Clan members that you have to collect so that you can identify, smith, cook, forage, etc...

Tuidjy
10-23-2015, 08:13 PM
OK, I am still on this same sector, and I am giving up on the adventuring win. As soon as I reduce the quests down to 2, every single time, I get new quests within three seconds or less.

This definitely needs looking into.

Roswitha
10-23-2015, 10:22 PM
The flashing green Zombie border drops my fps to around 5.0. When I open the map or clan info or other full screen display, the fps goes back up to 30. (I capped it there.) Then I close the screen and the fps drops again.

Rain does the same thing.

Now I'm not sure what causes it. Sometimes I kill a monster and it drops.

Roswitha
10-23-2015, 11:12 PM
The Zombie adder nagas leave puddles of acid around. I tried to pick some up with an empty vial, but it didn't work. I just dropped the vial. Oil doesn't work either.

Also, the skill button has a flashing plus sign when I have extra points. In the last game, the character button did the same. It doesn't in this game.

Throwback
10-24-2015, 12:04 AM
The sound from fire throwers is brutal (in a bad way) - I think my speakers are going to break every time they hit something. I think it is playing a separate sound for each separate instance of fire and it's excessively loud and ridiculous.

Tuidjy - you can identify all your items in one hit at the craft table. Also you only have to finish the non-optional quests to get an adventuring win - I assume smugglers are optional quests.

I expect it's too late in dev to remove the cash economy, just balance it well.

Roswitha
10-24-2015, 01:08 AM
Could you arrange it so the monsters attack pirates and mercenaries and such? They attack the helpful NPCs.

Sometimes NPCs have 9 traits when you hover over them, but only 8 show up on their character screen.

Tuidjy
10-24-2015, 01:27 AM
Tuidjy - you can identify all your items in one hit at the craft table. Costs cash. More cash that one can comfortably gather from killing the monsters that generate the loot you want to identify.Also you only have to finish the non-optional quests to get an adventuring win - I assume smugglers are optional quests.
If only they were...

I ended up introducing the clans to each other, and they killed each other in ten minutes flat... Although one spent quite a bit of time at 0 member. I think their last man deserted, and there was no check for clan death until something else happened.

Throwback
10-24-2015, 10:06 AM
Costs cash. More cash that one can comfortably gather from killing the monsters that generate the loot you want to identify.


I honestly couldn't handle ID'ing every single item by hand. I see it as a cost that is always going to exist - whether that leaves enough left over is another matter (so far I don't have an issue, lvl 14)


I ended up introducing the clans to each other, and they killed each other in ten minutes flat... Although one spent quite a bit of time at 0 member. I think their last man deserted, and there was no check for clan death until something else happened.

I finished my first area by adventuring just recently. It seemed to work fine - there were a couple of optional quests I ignored - it says they are optional in the description. You probably know that but just in case...

Throwback
10-24-2015, 10:10 AM
2nd post in a row sorry, this one is for bugs:

I had a zone called westwern grassland, at least in my gate list (note spelling).

I can move while opening chests.

Clan members in my party don't use lifestones or healthstones.

A party member with bow and sword proficency (or bow + dagger, can't remember) would only attack in melee range despite being equipped with a bow.

Item management of my clan is slowly improving but is still tiresome. If 2 people can use the same item, one gets all the good stuff even if the other is in your party. If a weapon has a higher dps but is grey, it will be subbed out. I have a lot of trouble comparing items, possibly because font sizes are all over the shop. Can you guys see what items look like if all the data is in the same-sized font? I know this complaint will reduce as I get higher level and gear is not subbed out so often.

Talzaroff
10-24-2015, 02:52 PM
Something seems wrong with the downloading from your site. It's only 2.2Mb, but it takes me 10 minutes to get to 1.0, and then it just seems to grind to a halt...

Shadow
10-24-2015, 02:56 PM
Something seems wrong with the downloading from your site. It's only 2.2Mb, but it takes me 10 minutes to get to 1.0, and then it just seems to grind to a halt...

It was probably something temporary or something between the server and your location. I just downloaded it and it only took a few seconds.

Shadow
10-24-2015, 04:15 PM
The whole cash economy needs to get scrapped.

I actually was originally going to go with a cashless society, but it causes a lot of other problems. Like how do you trade with vendors or other clans? It could use food, crafting items, or plain barter instead of money. While those make more sense, they end up being much more complex.

Tuidjy
10-24-2015, 05:14 PM
I think cash is fine for vendors and other clans. But everything that does not involve other clans, everything done by your own men - rumors, foraging, identifying, disassembling, enchanting, training skills or reducing them, should be enabled or disabled by the availability of clan members with the appropriate skills, and cost no cash. Your men should have a fatigue stat, a 'worked hard enough already, you slave driver!" stat, that will limit their foraging, patrols, identifying, etc...

Yes, it does mean that identifying, rumors, foraging, even enchanting and repairs may have to be disabled until you get the right men, or even build the right buildings. But I think that this would be a strength, not a weakness.

You could allow ONE trick per class. The warriors would be able to disassemble with a bonus, the clerics to encurse, the wizards to identify, Rogues to spread rumors, conjurers to enchant, demon masters to roll for enchantments, etc...

Right now, the clan is not important enough. Your party members matter, everyone else is just a food sink. This has to change, or you lose what makes the game special.

All in my selfish (what do I like) opinion.

ScrObot
10-24-2015, 06:09 PM
I definitely like the idea of making your clan members more useful and prominent in importance, and let them shine as individuals (or at least individuals by class). We need to be careful to make sure all the actions are still allowed if you haven't come across a certain class yet.

One of the key features is going to have to be a central place to do all these actions from. Having to run from clan member to clan member for their individual skills would be way too tedious.

I think most of the clan actions should be available from anywhere in town, not just at the NPC or specific object, including the crafting table, town defenses, bulletin board and stashes. Having a central screen or buttons that are displayed only in town would make a big difference in streamlining these processes which happen every time you're in town.

Throwback
10-24-2015, 06:52 PM
I actually think the clan system is pretty cool, in that you need food and defence, and happiness, then you can go for other perks (item creation or better relationship with other clans, for eg).

I would like a reason to actually walk around my town though, such as if clan members offered quests specific to their perks which you have to talk to them to get.

Tuidjy
10-24-2015, 09:43 PM
I had a stack of "Acid Dripping Weapon" flasks, and tried to give it to a clan member that was fighting off an invasion. The stack disappeared (there were 7 dozes) and the clan member received no buff.

Tuidjy
10-25-2015, 02:14 AM
When you insert a gem into an equipped piece of equipment, the upgrade is not taken into effect until you remove and re-equip it.

Throwback
10-25-2015, 05:27 PM
The tooltip for poison ward doesn't make a lot of sense (the wording around the attack speed reduction).

No class has a staves passive that I know of - it would be useful for Hunter Stalker builds - could be combined with the bow passive.