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Shadow
01-10-2018, 05:05 PM
So I'm thinking about the name for the next game. I really don't like naming things; it's a pain and I don't think I'm that good at it. I'm actually more and more tempted to name it Din's Curse 2 and be done with it since there are plenty of similarities with Din's Curse. There are also some differences though.

A quick rundown of the next game: you play as one of the Mutated, characters are hardcore (permadeath) and mutate over time, the next generation of character is evolved from his/her parents and most of your total power carries over, you do have a lot of control of guiding your character's development (picking parents, picking skills, getting rid of unwanted mutations, etc), each world has a random setup and win conditions, and your goal in each area is to prove to the world that the Mutated is a "good" and powerful race.

Similarities to Din's Curse:


Overall goal is to move to an area, more often than not to help the local people, and move on to the next area
Both have same kind of resurrection mechanism thanks to the gods (Din in this case)
Tighter focus than most of our other games (not controlling a clan)
They are both cursed (DC your character is directly cursed by Din, in the new game basically the entire race is cursed because they are split off from Orcs)
Random, dynamic world (this is also true of all of our games except Kivi)


Differences with Din's Curse:


You're not playing a human, but a mutated (race introduced in Zombasite: Orc Schism)
You're not forced into redemption, but simply trying to prove your new race is good and powerful
It's not a true resurrection, but mutated and carry on from "parents"
There are no direct hybrids, but guided mutations/evolution
Not just a town and a dungeon (although many scenarios do this)


I didn't start this game as a sequel, but it fits pretty well; mostly just a change from Humans to Mutated as the focus. So what do you all think? Do you think I should go the Din's Curse 2 route or make this a separate game? Is it too different to be a Din's Curse game? Or do you not care what I call it as long as I hurry up? :)

UPDATE: I decided to go with Din's Legacy.

pseudo310
01-10-2018, 05:17 PM
Maybe like Din's Curse 2: Children of Din or something like that to denote the multigenerational aspect? But I think straight up calling it Din's Curse 2 is 100% fine.

Bluddy
01-10-2018, 07:09 PM
I think referring to Din in the title is good since it'll let people who liked Din's Curse find the game more easily, but on the other hand, sequels titles sound uninspired. I like the 'Children of Din' suggestion above -- 'Lineage of Din' would also be good.

There's a game called Rogue Legacy that has generations of heroes in a roguelike setting. This game has a huge audience -- around 1.3 million owners according to steamspy. It wouldn't be a bad idea to stay close to that name, thus hinting that you have a similar mechanic, while also keeping resemblence to the original Din's Curse name, so 'Din's Legacy' has my vote.

BTW, have the original Din's Curse win/lose conditions remained as an option? Actually I care more about the lose conditions (ie. losing all questgivers), which I thought were a really tight design mechanic. It would be nice to have an option to play a world with those specific lose conditions, rather than random ones, as an ode to DC.

Caal
01-10-2018, 08:38 PM
DC has always been my favorite Soldak game (I still play it) so anything that builds on or expands this title I'm all in favor of. As suggested above, I think incorporating the Din name would be good. One (probably miserable) suggestion for a name would be to key off of the mutation aspect, something like - DNA: Din's Notorious Abnormality.

pseudo310
01-10-2018, 08:49 PM
Oh yeah Din's Legacy sounds cool.

Castruccio
01-10-2018, 09:31 PM
Isn't Din's Legacy a little too derivative? It's like naming it Dincraft or something, if it was an RTS. I don't think the name of the game has to reference other games with similar mechanics.

You could use a subtitle like "Din's Curse II: Heirs of the Mutated." Or "Din's Curse II: Dark Descent" (a double play on going down in a dungeon, and on the word 'descendant' and the game's theme of lineage).

Or you could go with a different game title altogether that subtly references Din's Curse but doesn't actually use Din in the title. Perhaps a two word title as simple as "Cursed Generations".

pseudo310
01-10-2018, 10:23 PM
Isn't Din's Legacy a little too derivative?Two games using the same word!=derivative

Fleabum
01-11-2018, 08:44 AM
As it has a lot of lore from Din's Curse, then it should have some similarities in name. I think using the Din's Curse II: <insert something here> is the best way of both tying the game in with the lore aspect along with the new direction.

Din's Curse II: The Mutated
Din's Curse II: Evolution
Din's Curse II: Legacy
Din's Curse II: Din's Gift
Din's Curse II: Linage

Doing it this way is a double edge sword, if someone really enjoyed Din's Curse, they will most likely look at the sequel and buy it, but if someone was put of by Din's Curse, they might not look at the sequel.

Regards
Flea

Mithur
01-11-2018, 08:50 AM
As for the idea of the game that every next character is a descendant(in-kind) of the previous character.
That may be suitable as an addition to the main title-Din's Curse II:Scourge of Bloodline;or if not related to Din's Curse then- Scourge of Bloodline,or Aleria Cursed Bloodline.
Mutated race was cursed. But by which god? Maybe while exploring a Harcore game we collect lore objects that will answer to that.

Shadow
01-11-2018, 02:59 PM
... so 'Din's Legacy' has my vote.

BTW, have the original Din's Curse win/lose conditions remained as an option? Actually I care more about the lose conditions (ie. losing all questgivers), which I thought were a really tight design mechanic. It would be nice to have an option to play a world with those specific lose conditions, rather than random ones, as an ode to DC.

I kind of like Din's Legacy. I don't know if you guys know this or not, but boardgames are having a Legacy movement right now (your current game can affect future games) so there are quite a few games with Legacy in the title.

Each scenario has different win and lose conditions. While there aren't any that are exactly like Din's Curse, there are several that you have to protect the town.

Cyberneticist
01-11-2018, 03:30 PM
DC is also my favorite, followed closely by DO (if the latter had a more motivating skill system with more meaningful choices and options, it would take the crown).

I love the pressure DC puts on the player. In Diablo, you joke about Big D torching Tristam and slaughtering the citizens while you struggle to kill the Butcher ... in DC this really happens. ;)

Have a good look at the skill/class system for the new game. It is one of the main sources of motivation in an ARPG.

Bluddy
01-11-2018, 05:00 PM
Have a good look at the skill/class system for the new game. It is one of the main sources of motivation in an ARPG.

I agree and I think this is still the weakest part of the Soldak formula, but presumably this hardcore game will have to change it heavily.

This is getting really off-topic, but I heartily recommend watching Tom Chick's recent playthrough of Zombasite expansion here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4LX9ub8-C0&t=52s). The whole thing is enjoyable, but at 27:50 and 30:15 you'll see some of what I see as valid criticism. This video (for Orc Schism) and the previous one for Zombasite are very much worth watching. He notes that the open approach to skills just doesn't make sense -- you can't balance the skills this way. He also opened my eyes to some of the really cool things in Zombasite.

BTW Shadow, speaking of board games, it'd be interesting to consider having victory points - which board games have transitioned to - rather than win conditions. For example, sometimes wiping out everybody is a real pain, or doing all the quests is too much work. But if different approaches yield different amounts of victory points (obviously requiring some balancing), you can kind of find your way to a fun victory the way you want to. It also makes the 'other clan' AI more realistic, since it's not actively trying to wipe you out -- just to dominate and get its own victory point win. It would also make sense at that point to have competitive multiplayer, since players could race to a victory point win without having to literally fight each other.

For this game, you may want to weight victory points differently per world (e.g. quests are worth only 1/4 of their normal victory points), or to have some new things generate victory points. I'm not sure this particular suggestion fits this game, but I do wish Civ moved in the victory point direction (so you don't have to wipe out everyone as a victory condition), and I think it would really have helped Zombasite.

Victory points could also help with the quest system. Normally, quests have a percentage chance of getting worse over time. You could make it so that the more victory points you have, the better the chance of a *good* outcome happening, or at least nothing bad happening (a message that a negative event was avoided would be great). This would also occur for other clans as they build up victory points (in the games that have other clans). It represents your 'fighting back' against the Nemesis/dungeon and succeeding. So you're not just putting out fires -- you're also making things a little better, which is an element I currently miss in Soldak games.

EDIT: Consider also the impact victory points could have had on Drox Operative. Rather than struggling to achieve one particular objective, you'd be a true mercenary and accomplish different things, getting victory points as you go, until you reach the required amount. Having this one currency just makes sense and you can see why board games have moved in this direction. Accomplishing a mix of this or that or the other thing is much more fun than either this or the other thing. It's also really fun if you can suddenly pull ahead with hidden victory points against competing humans (as you do in Catan and other board games), making the prospect of semi-competitive allies really doable.

hella
01-11-2018, 10:15 PM
Hey, first post on the forum. I'm a huge fan of Din's Curse (but unfortunately haven't really been able to get as into later games) so I'm probably what could be considered the target market for calling the new game Din's Curse 2.

I bought Din's Curse back in 2010 and enjoyed it a lot -- it's my top favorite Soldak game! So personally, I'd really prefer the title Din's Curse 2 be reserved for a true sequel.

The next game seems to have about as much in common with DC as Zombasite does. I think I'd feel misled if I bought it expecting another DC.

I was really hoping for a new Din's Curse someday -- the recent games' diplomacy, clan management, and now mutations and permadeath have left me kind of... lukewarm. I mean I've had fun, but the straightforward, multiplayer ARPG gameplay of DC is a lot more appealing to me. (And nobody I personally played DC with ever even tried hardcore. Granted, that's four people, but still -- I don't think it's what that crowd really wants.)

I suppose it feels like the niche has narrowed to the point where I'm not in it, anymore -- I'm not part of the Venn diagram overlap of people who enjoy ARPGs and strategy, or the percentage of ARPG players who play hardcore. Which is fine! But I think other Din's Curse fans could possibly be similar.

I'll probably end up at least trying it (I mean, I bought Zombasite, too!) but I don't think it'd be a great move to appeal to people who just want more Din's Curse because the new game is so different. It's almost a New Coke situation, you know? I think it'd run the risk of unnecessarily disappointing people.

And I hate to say it but I already feel kinda bummed -- I've wanted Din's Curse 2 for years, but the new game just doesn't really seem like my kinda thing. I still want to get it just to support Soldak, but... calling it Din's Curse 2 just feels sorta bad :(

I'd prefer a title that doesn't mention Din -- Something Legacy. Well, anything but Din's Curse 2, haha. Din's Legacy is okay, I suppose!

(But please, please, please make Din's Curse 2 someday!)

jeeplaw
01-11-2018, 10:33 PM
I'll be honest, I don't really care..just pick a name and let's all move onto Drox Operative 2 please!!

Shadow
01-12-2018, 02:28 PM
The next game seems to have about as much in common with DC as Zombasite does. I think I'd feel misled if I bought it expecting another DC.

(But please, please, please make Din's Curse 2 someday!)

This was something I was/am worried about, which is why I'm probably not going to call it Din's Curse 2. That does leave it open for a more true sequel later.

torikamal
01-15-2018, 11:38 PM
Just vamping on some ideas:

Rogue Blood
Blood Legacy
Rogue Generation
Afterlife
Blood Kin
Rouge Line
Din's Kin :)

Shadow
01-18-2018, 12:50 PM
I'm leaning towards Din's Legacy at the moment.

DarthNihilus
01-24-2018, 08:27 AM
i think mentioning an old game's name in a completely different game is the same as to name a child after it's father or mother, like some pplz do.
But ok, i'm not the majority here :)

of course there is such studio as spiderweb but that's an exception LOL

bailey4500
03-01-2018, 12:42 AM
I think Din's Curse 2 is the way to go. Lets face it Zombasite was a terrible name, and probably cost you sales.

Shadow
03-01-2018, 01:47 PM
Lets face it Zombasite was a terrible name, and probably cost you sales.

That's very possible. Names are hard. :)

megaflux
03-31-2018, 08:50 PM
I'll be honest, I don't really care..just pick a name and let's all move onto Drox Operative 2 please!!

+1!

i dont know why "legacy" is what people keep looking at, phantasy star III: "generations of doom" did the whole traits carrying over to the offspring thing way back in 1990.

Shadow
04-02-2018, 12:35 PM
I actually removed the generation stuff a while back. It still has all of the mutations, you can just do it with dying now.

eSmokefish
04-06-2018, 05:31 AM
Let me start with by saying that I've never really gotten deep into any of the Soldak Games apart from Drox Operative, and thus have little experience with any given lore of the other games, and as such I cannot make a well-informed suggestion.

But as the setting of this new game appears linked to Zombasite, which is linked to the world of Din's Curse, based on what I've read in this thread I can agree with not naming it "Din's Curse 2". There is power in names. Expectations also, as Dawn of War 3 will attest to as a recent example.

"Din's Legacy" works for a few reasons, in my opinion, firstly in that it is separate yet related to the "Din's Curse" series, and also that it gives a clue to the game mechanics that have been mentioned here. But above all else is that it is a name you can search for, that it is not super generic, like "Dawn of Fantasy" or the like. Having a name that can be searched for hardly hurts.

But I am rambling again. I'll just throw in a campy undertitle instead: "Din's Legacy: Trials of the Mutated Ones"

Din's Legacy could work as the primary name for games related to the Din's Curse series, but not being part of the main series itself. While 'Trials of the Mutated Ones', or Mutants, or whatever they are to be called, could work out to denote the focus of this particular spinoff game. A more clickbaity name would probably be "Din's Legacy: Bastards of Din", or Mongrels of Din, but I am rambling again.

That and I should probably offer a disclaimer that these are just subjective opinions, and not really educated facts about how marketing works, and that I might be a Drox Agent here to start an uprising.

Shadow
04-06-2018, 10:49 AM
...and that I might be a Drox Agent here to start an uprising.

This part makes me smile for some reason. :)

Zengrath
04-21-2018, 02:49 PM
Glad to see your working on a new title. Looking forward to it. I've been following Soldak for a while now, playing just about every title and will totally be playing this on release too. Have had fun with all your games so far. Good Luck!