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Stoh
05-02-2011, 05:09 PM
First I apologize for my english which is not very good.

I've been playing DoP for some times now, and I'm a little bit disappointed with how the diplomacy works. Don't get me wrong, I like the diplomacy concept, but I feel like that with just a little more work it could have been even better.

My main concern is how AI use -or rather don't use- diplomacy. AI pretty much don't do anything, except slowly hating everyone, then make war and die. I've never seen so far 2 AI teaming up in order to bring down quickly a powerful opponent. AI seem to work only with this like/dislike rating and nothing else. The most striking example I can give is, when an AI has the worst power rank, it will still refuse any alliance offer. Except when it's by far too late (on the verge of destruction).

So I was wondering if it may be possible to make a more "strategic" AI through moding (if not consider it as an humble suggestion :) ).


Reduce the importance of the whole like/dislike thing. It seems like this rating is here to ensure things will not move too fast, so that the player won't be able to ally everyone in a couple of minutes (and win). As a side effect, AI becomes passive, whereas AI diplomatic decision should mainly be based on the power ranks of other covenants.

powerful covenants should try to bring down potential rivals (other powerful covenants) no matter what (and this is what should ensure an alliance win is not easy to achieve). That means avoid making treaty with powerful covenants, making treaties with less powerful covenants (to be able to make strong strikes against rivals), etc.
covenants of medium power should try to feast on less powerful covenants, and to find allies to avoid becoming one of theses less powerful covenants.
least powerful covenants should try to survive no matter what, meaning trying to make treaties when possible.
like/dislike rating should only serve as a small bonus/malus over theses global strategies. A trusted ally is good, but a powerful not-so-trusted ally may be better. Moreover even a trusted ally should turn his back on you when you become a strong rival
There has to be counterparts to breaking treaties. What's the point of making treaty if anyone can break it without any drawbacks ? Of course AI won't do that often because it's AI, but the player has no problem doing so (and it's very easy to take advantage of this). Maybe the traitor should loose a percentage of his influence : if treason bring you a quick win, it's ok cause you gain back influence. However, if war doesn't turn in your favor you will have a hard time.
Share rewards when destroying another covenant. Right now, only the covenant that deal the killing blow gets the whole reward (loot and influence). Therefor one's best interest is to bring a covenant down alone, praying that no one will join the fight. Again, that plays against diplomacy. Maybe it could be interesting that any kill during a raid gives a small amount of experience, a guard kill give a small amount of cristal. Or better that when the lifestone is destroyed, every kill/damage done during the last raid session is rewarded.

So what do you think of this ? Is it possible to make such changes with a mod ? Again, don't get me wrong, I like the game the way it is, but IMHO adding some dynamism to the diplomacy system could add a lot of fun.

Bluddy
05-03-2011, 12:28 PM
These are excellent suggestions, but I don't think they can be realized within the current system of DoP. They could be good for Shadow to try and implement whenever he gets to DoP 2 though, or maybe they could also be useful for the surprise upcoming game.

Essentially what you're saying is that once you have factions, you have to treat them as a strategy game would: you have to give them sufficient AI to make intelligent decisions regarding who's powerful and who isn't. I agree.

Shadow
05-04-2011, 10:20 AM
Yeah, most of those would be code changes.

There usually is a penalty to breaking treaties. The covenant that gets the rewards is the one that did the most damage not the last damage. At least this is how I remember things.

Stoh
05-04-2011, 08:07 PM
Yeah, most of those would be code changes.

Allright :(

The covenant that gets the rewards is the one that did the most damage not the last damage. At least this is how I remember things.

My bad I didn't notice :o

There usually is a penalty to breaking treaties.

Again I didn't notice :(. I have also no idea what they could be ? Is there anything else to the other faction's hate ?

I often use AI conflicts to turn my back on my allies so that I can kill them one by one - I just trade the break of treaties + war declaration + raid in exchange of a good chunk of the other faction's influence (and one treaty or two). Most of the time, my ex-friend hate me, but not so much, so I can make peace in case things turn bad. The other house love me so much for saving its ass (at the cost of quarter of its influence) that I will be able to use this strategy again later. To me it's a win-win strategy : you reduce your rivals' power (you change the balance of power - the most powerful alliance becomes the weakest one, that means that each AI will weaken itself more in the war), and get a good amount of influence which ensure you'll be the leading covenant after the war.

In this situation, the weak AI made a good decision to avoid destruction - even though it wouldn't really ask for help itself - but it's too easy for me to get advantage of this because I've not seen real drawbacks to be a traitor. Am I missing something ?

Bluddy
05-05-2011, 04:40 AM
Again I didn't notice :(. I have also no idea what they could be ? Is there anything else to the other faction's hate ?

From a cursory glance at DoP's covenant file, I think the hate is the penalty, though of course I could be wrong.

O'Jorvic
10-27-2011, 09:14 PM
I'd love to establish diplomatic ties with the blood clan orcs or groups of renegades against other houses....