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Bluddy
05-22-2011, 08:38 AM
UPDATE: the extra mod is now incorporated into my regular Balance Mod. A separate download is no longer available.

This is the promised mod to accompany my Balance mod. In here I'll put changes that are more controversial or experimental. Only download this mod if you want to modify the experience in ways that affect more than just basic balance.

Simply copy the file to your Din's Curse/Assets/ directory. It can coexist with the regular Balance Mod or just be there on its own. Of course I recommend using this mod with the regular Balance Mod.

Warning: unlike the regular Balance Mod, I'm going to try some more radical stuff in this mod (assuming I get around to it -- I'm not sure how much I'm going to put into this now that the Balance Mod is nearly done). Pay attention to the patch notes in the readme.txt file and see if you're interested in the changes. Of course, you can always remove the assetsExtra.zip file if you don't want the changes anymore.

Bluddy
05-22-2011, 08:41 AM
Version 0.1 mostly changes loot drops to be much more rare. Chests are the best way to get loot, which makes sense -- that's why they're there. This may cause less money to be found in the dungeon, so let me know if that's the case. Also in this version, I restored the power of mob mages, priests and saurians, who were discriminated against in the vanilla game. They should be much more of a threat.

Bluddy
05-23-2011, 02:16 PM
Version 0.2 is out. I'm coming closer to the experience I would like to have in terms of loot.

Basically, I feel that there are many elements that are underused. I don't think I ever bought any weapons from a vendor -- maybe once. I definitely never buy anything from gamblers. There's just no need to do so since there's so much good loot in the dungeon and it's so easy to come by.

There are several different types of chests -- common, bronze, silver and gold. But do I need to pay attention to them? Nope. I just open them, knowing that whatever I get inside, I can get better stuff from the mobs.

So now I changed all that. Mobs give you only a little loot. You might get really lucky, as I did once, getting an artifact. You feel really lucky when that happens! Also, you have to carefully watch which chests you're trying to bash. A gold chest will have a lot of loot, but it's fragile, and you might break what's inside if you bash it.

After lowering the loot parameters, I played a game that was much more exciting -- until I found a treasure map. I suddenly remembered how common those are. They should be cool, just like finding a treasure room or a vault, but unfortunately that's not the case since they're pretty common. So I'm trying to adjust all of those things in this Extra mod.

Manumitted
05-23-2011, 06:42 PM
I have yet to figure out the point of the Gamblers other than as the worst way to throw away money. For starters, across hundreds of items, the outright burn rate has been around 75%. Items that technically weren't burns still hewed to the game's formula of "95% of items not reasonably usable by anyone," which means that I had to sell them at the usual pittance. I don't think I've found a gambled item yet that even met the "fourfold price paid" value requirement to theoretically break even on even a cheap item. I know I've never gotten a gambled item that's worth 10x what I paid, which would be the first resale bracket (20-40 SP MSRP) where I could conceivably use what I gambled if it were any good. This all takes the effective burn rate on gambled items up near 98%. Even the sucker bets at casinos aren't that bad.

At least in stores, I can see how much the items stink first and just walk away. If you've got too much money, buy some potions or food for yourself or an alt character.

As far as successful gambled items go, through a bit of save-scumming across several characters and towns of widely varying level, I've gambled hundreds of items, buying out every gambler, from cheap garbage up to multi-GP stuff. Out of all those hundreds, maybe three items were somewhat useful. None was better than above-average, though. If I hadn't save-scummed, that would be hundreds of GP down the drain for three items that make little difference. Made me glad I save-scummed.

As to weapon vendors, they occasionally have weapons that I buy, but I'm a bit of a hoarder and have many alts to twink.

Bluddy
05-24-2011, 04:10 AM
Manumitted, give this mod a try and see if you feel vendors become more valuable. I haven't changed their parameters yet, but regular items should be much harder to come by in the dungeon.

Gamblers get a boost to their magic items production, but I don't know if it's enough. I'll have to look at it.

From looking at the figures (and after receiving an explanation from Shadow about all the different commands) I think one of the problems with vendors might simply be that they can't compete with what the rare monsters generate. Most of the best loot in the game seems to be generated by rare monsters and bosses. They get an automatic, extra level boost to the items they spawn. They also spawn a whole bunch of items. The problem is that the vendors and gamblers don't get this extra boost -- their items only have a small chance of being higher level.

Between the extra item level boosts and the huge mass of items that rare monsters generate, there just isn't any need to buy from vendors. I've addressed the number of items generated so far, but I haven't dealt with the level boosts.

Version 0.3 is now out. It changes the XP and reputation required, and makes some more changes to loot.

Bluddy
05-24-2011, 03:24 PM
Version 0.4 corrects a small mistake I made in 0.3 with secret stashes. Actually, it seems like a small limitation in the game's override command.

After some more testing, I really like these XP modifications. I may move them to the main mod. The beginning of the game now plays a lot like Kivi's Underworld (which I now really enjoy). It's not too stressful, but if a bunch of monsters gang up on you, you better have your wits about you.

Bluddy
06-06-2011, 11:31 AM
Version 0.5 makes liches and other mages a little tougher. They should now finally be a real threat to you, so do your best to get your resistances up and take those mages out as soon as you can.

Erevos
06-07-2011, 07:57 AM
Version 0.5 makes liches and other mages a little tougher. They should now finally be a real threat to you, so do your best to get your resistances up and take those mages out as soon as you can.

are the changes of both of your mods requiring to start a new character?

Bluddy
06-07-2011, 11:25 AM
are the changes of both of your mods requiring to start a new character?

The Extra mod's changes are currently more subtle, and using an existing character is very easy as a result. The Balance Mod makes some changes to skill costs and switches 4 skills around, so you might need to re-spec somewhat.

jureidinim
07-06-2011, 01:36 AM
Hi - i am trying out your mods and they seem great.

Using the Extra mod though - do i load it into both Asset folders? (i have the expansion as well for Dins Curse)

I had it copied in both, and also have your original Balance Mod running, and noticed that the quests were very few and i solved more of them before anyone even offered them. At one point, no one had any quests to give, but the game did not end.
I removed this Extra mod and left only your other Balance Mod running, and the quests seem ok now. The only thing i noticed with this was that the WAREHOUSE global modifier was running (making loot drops less in vanilla game), but with your Balance mod running i still got quite a lot of loot drops. Does this override the vanilla world modifers?

The overall pacing seems slower - in the vanilla game a lot more bosses seem to be active and constantly progressing with their plans to invade. Yet so far the pace seems a bit slower with the mods running. Is this an effect of your mod or am i just seeing things? :-)

Great work though :-)

Bluddy
07-06-2011, 02:09 AM
Hi - i am trying out your mods and they seem great.

Thanks! I put a lot of work into them and I'm glad you're enjoying them.


Using the Extra mod though - do i load it into both Asset folders? (i have the expansion as well for Dins Curse)

No. The extra balance mod should only be in the main Assets folder.


I had it copied in both, and also have your original Balance Mod running, and noticed that the quests were very few and i solved more of them before anyone even offered them. At one point, no one had any quests to give, but the game did not end.

That's probably just luck. You were looking for changes (naturally since it's a mod) and since people are pattern seekers, you found this particular pattern. I've had games with my mods where the pace was faster and ones where the pace was slower. In general, I don't change the pacing of anything in the game.


I removed this Extra mod and left only your other Balance Mod running, and the quests seem ok now.

There shouldn't be a difference. Just make sure to put the Extra Mod only in the main Assets folder.


The only thing i noticed with this was that the WAREHOUSE global modifier was running (making loot drops less in vanilla game), but with your Balance mod running i still got quite a lot of loot drops. Does this override the vanilla world modifers?

That's probably also just chance. There shouldn't be any difference in loot drops between vanilla and regular Balance Mod. In fact, there are very few things in the vanilla game that actually reduce loot drops so it's most likely that it was just chance. Even if you play in Poverty mode you'll get almost exactly the same drops.


The overall pacing seems slower - in the vanilla game a lot more bosses seem to be active and constantly progressing with their plans to invade. Yet so far the pace seems a bit slower with the mods running. Is this an effect of your mod or am i just seeing things? :-)

Again, it's probably just seeing patterns in the randomness of the game. I didn't touch anything to do with bosses or their attack rates.

jureidinim
07-06-2011, 02:19 AM
Ok. Good to know. :-)
I'll put the EXTRA mod back then in the main Asset directory and try again.

Looking forward to any ore updates you do.