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View Full Version : Fog Of War is just tedious in this game.


Janster
06-18-2012, 06:27 PM
I don't think this game mechanic is very fun in this game. You have to drive in circle after circle mapping, and its just tedious.

How about a toggle on this atleast?

Hyfrydle
06-18-2012, 06:52 PM
I thought some kind of scanner that improves the visual range when upgraded would work quite well to help with this issue.

Bluddy
06-18-2012, 06:57 PM
I don't think this game mechanic is very fun in this game. You have to drive in circle after circle mapping, and its just tedious.

How about a toggle on this atleast?

I think the circle of removing the fog of war should be much bigger. Crossing the sector once should clear all of it up.

Reefpirate
06-18-2012, 07:05 PM
I think the circle of removing the fog of war should be much bigger. Crossing the sector once should clear all of it up.
In that case, you would only have to fly to the middle.

Bluddy
06-18-2012, 07:28 PM
In that case, you would only have to fly to the middle.

True dat. So maybe it should be 1/4 of the size of the map.

Janster
06-18-2012, 07:33 PM
Either that, or atleast show all infrastructure upon arrival, that will include, planets, entry/exit points and gate.

ollobrains
06-18-2012, 08:04 PM
Well via race relations u can buy jump points off them and use youre own gate.

Then its a matter of mapping the system if anything each solar system should be larger i guess as more quests, monsters, races,ships are added this may occour if a system becomes bigger then the scanner range can scale up as well

LostSoul
06-18-2012, 10:04 PM
I don't think the fog should apply to anything substantial honestly. I mean, we're measuring and monitoring planets from half-way across the galaxy with our technology today. Planets, stars, and star-lanes should be immediately visible in any and every solar system.

This makes even more sense when the Drox are the ones who BUILT the star-lanes in the first place. That means that they've already been there before, and thus have had time to make an accurate and thorough accounting of all the solar bodies in a given system and sector. They don't need to "explore" to find planets and the like. They already know about them.

Smaller objects like ships, space-chests, worm-holes and anomalies, should be what's constrained by the fog. Fog, I might add, which is greatly diminished when your ship includes a scanner subsystem (but doesn't currently). A ship outfitted with a good scanner should be able to see a quarter of the system (including an "attacK vs defense" check for ships?), while a higher end one can scan the entire system in a single pass.

cyborg
06-18-2012, 11:45 PM
It feels like mowing the lawn. Except the lawn is dark matter or something.

pnakotus
06-19-2012, 12:02 AM
In Space Rangers, you can see all planets/stars/big things everywhere, but can only detect ships/interesting things/money within your radar range.

Problem = solved.

Eagleheart
06-19-2012, 12:41 AM
I think the fog of war is fine in this game. Everything being revealed would considerably affect the game. Knowing where all the enemy planets are and the warpgate and lane locations would make it a lot easier.

Exploring is integral to the game right now, and I like it this way. It loses that sense of adventure if you know where everything is.

You should definitely be able to trade map data and possibly be able to have shared vision with allied AI and other players though.

rune_74
06-19-2012, 12:42 AM
In Space Rangers, you can see all planets/stars/big things everywhere, but can only detect ships/interesting things/money within your radar range.

Problem = solved.

This is true...and makes sense....you could also change it so that only known planets show up...like major race planets

pnakotus
06-19-2012, 01:34 AM
Yeah, even if planets were just a zero-information dot (rather than a recognised, named and stats-up thing like in SR) it'd help with navigating, help new players, reduce the 10m of driving around to get anywhere, etc. The exploration is still required to find bad guys, loot, anything interesting. It's just the 'terrain' that is visible.

I'm pretty sure it's only the way it is now because it's so close to Dins (like how planets only show up on your radar within a short range, even if they're on your full map). This will certainly improve.

ebarstad
06-19-2012, 03:09 AM
I like pnakotus's SR2-style radar idea. It doesn't lessen exploration, only tedium (and my innate desire to remove any scrap of the fog from the map). It also gives you more of an incentive to get a good radar.

Valgor
06-19-2012, 04:08 AM
When a race wants the player to explore or colonize a planet, the planet in question should appear on the map regardless.

Lyranaar
06-19-2012, 06:08 AM
I agree, removing fog in every system gets repetetive after a time. The SR version could quicken the starting pace of the game. In addition that way it would be easier to contact other races quicker (as you can find planets faster) and give therefore more choices.

Hyfrydle
06-19-2012, 06:12 AM
Maybe instead of removing the fog of war completely or showing the planets. Perhaps the planets could show up in the fog of war as you explore so the range a planet can be spotted could be increased. After all planets are pretty big objects in the vastness of space.

gornova
06-19-2012, 06:43 AM
Maybe instead of removing the fog of war completely or showing the planets. Perhaps the planets could show up in the fog of war as you explore so the range a planet can be spotted could be increased. After all planets are pretty big objects in the vastness of space.

I agree, Drox Operative are cool enough to spot planets when entering into a system :D

spacehog
06-19-2012, 12:26 PM
It feels like mowing the lawn. Except the lawn is dark matter or something.
You had me laughing for minutes!

I haven't played around with the radar much, but it might be cool if increasing radar increased the amount of fog of war revealed around the ship. Sort of like increasing the light intensity mechanic in Din's Curse. I also support the scanner component ideas that can detect large bodies. Operatives willing to sacrifice one of their component slots for a planetary scanner don't have to explore as much.

Aganazer
06-19-2012, 12:32 PM
You had me laughing for minutes!

I haven't played around with the radar much, but it might be cool if increasing radar increased the amount of fog of war revealed around the ship. Sort of like increasing the light intensity mechanic in Din's Curse. I also support the scanner component ideas that can detect large bodies. Operatives willing to sacrifice one of their component slots for a planetary scanner don't have to explore as much.

Yes. This.

Use the fog of war as a game mechanic.

+1 for Radar Components

Bluddy
06-19-2012, 12:46 PM
I haven't played around with the radar much, but it might be cool if increasing radar increased the amount of fog of war revealed around the ship. Sort of like increasing the light intensity mechanic in Din's Curse. I also support the scanner component ideas that can detect large bodies. Operatives willing to sacrifice one of their component slots for a planetary scanner don't have to explore as much.

There's a difference between fog of war and sight radius. In DC, you can see the outline of the dungeon further than you can see actual entities in the dungeon (I believe). Here, it's much more critical -- it's extremely annoying to have to search the black fog for planets you're supposed to go to. This is more of a usability issue. Planets should probably be easily visible, whereas enemies and entities should rely on your radar. Or the initial fog of war should be easily clearable, whereas actually spotting enemies and things in space could depend on your radar.

spacehog
06-19-2012, 01:52 PM
There's a difference between fog of war and sight radius. In DC, you can see the outline of the dungeon further than you can see actual entities in the dungeon (I believe). Here, it's much more critical -- it's extremely annoying to have to search the black fog for planets you're supposed to go to. This is more of a usability issue. Planets should probably be easily visible, whereas enemies and entities should rely on your radar. Or the initial fog of war should be easily clearable, whereas actually spotting enemies and things in space could depend on your radar.

True. Maybe races could trade system maps that reveal fog of war, or at least the important objects like planets and starlanes.

Reefpirate
06-19-2012, 02:02 PM
True. Maybe races could trade system maps that reveal fog of war, or at least the important objects like planets and starlanes.
I like this idea better than tying it too closely to components. You don't want to make life miserable for people without those components equipped otherwise you're eliminating meaningful choices in component builds, or even worse, making people play the 'constantly swapping out components to get all the benefits' game which isn't very fun either.

pnakotus
06-19-2012, 05:30 PM
Since all components would do is affect your enemy ship/item sight range, something of clear tactical benefit, I don't see the problem. It worked this way in Space Rangers and it worked this way in Dins.

I'm pretty sure the systems only work the way they do because they are literally Dins levels and your radar is literally a lantern. As the game develops I'm certain we'll see this change.

jonasan
07-08-2012, 03:34 PM
here's hoping what you all say above is true because it feels like all the issues highlighted in this thread still exist, and revealing each system is one of the parts that is starting to grate after doing it so mony times in the higher levels...

...the addition of the 'rumoured position' button for some quest goals is a good start to improve things...

but radar components making more of an active difference would be great and rather than doing it some other way (trading for reveal maps etc..) i think it would be a hell of a lot more consistent with the game world and the style of experience on offer in drox for the component system to help with this 'problem'...

so, when installed a radar component would increase the radius of your fog-of-war clearing (as well as its current increase to blip pickup range).

Starting out small in terms of the fog clearing rate in the early levels should be matched with a restricted sector size of tiny for your first 5 (?) sectors (on first playthrough that is - till completing the new 'visit 5 sectors with one ship' achievement)... Then once larger sectors are unlocked you should definately start to see radar components that steadily increase your fog clearing range - till one day you might be piloting a very high level ship which can scan an entire system when first entering!