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Waffles
06-22-2012, 10:39 AM
I have a few bugs, and a lot of feedback, so I tried to separate the more objective from the more subjective stuff.

Bugs
1) Radar range VS ships percentage scales bizarrely. 7% versus lv 19 ships (my level), independent of what my radar value is (150 or 198).
2) Sniping planets is too easy due to nonmoving defenders.
3) Inconsistent Distances. "Radar"/"Explosion Radius" and "Meters" distances.
4) Stars take damage/display damage taken (hit one with EMP)

Problems
5) System map doesn't indicate current quests on planets.
6) System map view lacks the ability to look directly at other systems without consulting sector map [right-clicking starlanes/wormholes].
7) Monster self-destruct is disproportionately powerful/feels unfair.
8) Shield Regen needs to scale somehow. Base amount becomes insignificant quickly (.3 per second versus 200 shields). Components giving a percentage increase are weak, because 150% of .3 per second is still insignificant.
9) Minimap doesn't show far enough. Presently it mostly shows "what have/haven't i explored yet"/system border. Player needs to consult the actual map way too much for intrasystem travel.
10) The Flak weapon is indeterminate what it does or how it works. It appears to be a standard weapon, but cannot fire at normal targets. Needs a better tooltip or is broken.
11) Command levels that give only structure/weight are detrimental to the player. Removing these would allow faster gain of additional components, which players have been wanting/adds fun, and not require allocating an absurd 90 levels to reach max size. Make structure increase modestly with each level.
12) Victory condition shouldn't require player alliance with all races in an alliance, only alliance with one of them. Potentially require non-hostile standing towards others. It would reduce dragging on of endgame.

Opinions
13) Exploration/Finding stuff is still too clunky. Solutions discussed in other threads seem plausible. Fog of war removal range increase helped.
14) Race Ships are more powerful than operative ships of similar level [usually? always?]. I think they are too powerful. A combative operative ship should be able to take a race ship 1 on 1. If race ships are of present power to deal with roaming monsters, potentially decrease their stats and give them bonuses versus monsters.
15) Monster ships shouldn't all move at 200 max speed.
16) Turn speed should be higher while moving slowly
17) Acceleration should scale up somewhat with max speed (Probably? Why not do this?).
18) Wording in "Other Stats" Feels weird. Explanation of what Crushing/Critical does should be in the tooltip. Potentially rename "Crushing Blow" to "Direct Hit".

Questions/Concerns
19) Do you cripple a race when you sell your goods to their vendors and run them out of money? Does this happen when you trade with the race directly? Can you wage economic warfare with trading? In one game I think I crippled my ally this way, but I don't know.
20) Fighter bays don't seem very obvious that the maximum amount of ships does not increase with additional bays. I thought I would go Starcraft Protoss Carrier style with 10 ships buzzing around but it didn't work. Is this working as intended? Am I just dense to have not understood?

Bluddy
06-22-2012, 11:16 AM
Excellent analysis of many aspects of the game there.

8) Makes perfect sense that this is the problem -- everybody's been feeling that shields stop recharging at higher levels.

12) See the 'wanted - victory conditions' thread. I personally don't think alliances should even be in the victory conditions.

11) This is really interesting to consider. If you were to compare the system here to DC, it's as if you didn't get specialized points to put into skills every level, but skill points had to compete with attribute points instead. This is a viable system, but the alternative in Drox would be that your ship increases in size every couple of levels, which takes away some decision-making.

The problem is that a better ship is much better than any of the other stats. This is why there's a weight drawback for having a bigger ship. What I would suggest instead, is that rather than making the ship heavier, every item should have weight when equipped. This way, you only become slower from equipping extra slots -- not from upgrading your ship. It doesn't entirely make sense -- if you have stuff in your cargo hold, why shouldn't it make you heavier to begin with? But the idea is that your cargo holds are built to take extra weight, while the other slots aren't by default.

Aganazer
06-22-2012, 11:43 AM
I like the idea of module weight, but not cargo weight. Module weight would be much preferable to a static ship weight. Lightweight module bonuses would be a fun mechanic.

Waffles
06-22-2012, 12:00 PM
The problem is that a better ship is much better than any of the other stats.

Regarding Command:
Investing heavily in command means that you have more choices that are each less good. More components that are weaker doesn't equal a better ship. I noted in a previous post that if you overinvest into Command your ship is in fact terrible. Who cares if I get to have an extra crew member, an additional tactical computer, and another weapon? None of my weapons do interesting amounts of damage, and my rare crewman is worth only about .5 CP per level. I just traded 40 CP, which is 4 tiers of equipment in every category, for 1/1/1 slots, which is probably 10 unpredictable CP, a utility slot, and a weapon.

Is this worth it? It really, really depends, and it is an optimization/opportunity cost problem.
How much CP does it really take to get 1/1/1 slots? How many slots do I have already? How much benefit do I get for having those extra slots? Then, how much benefit could I get from spending those CP directly on stats that I need?
There is some optimal way to go, between more slots and better slots. I haven't tested this, but lets just say, the best way to go is stats till level 6, then upgrade to 4/4/4, then stats to level 15, then upgrade to 5/5/5, then stats to level 30, then upgrade to 6/6/6, or something like that. And if you want, you can say "i want more slots sooner" and get them at level 3/10/20, and your ship will be your way, and not quite as good. Or, you could go "I want to fly around a smaller, more powerful ship" and not get slots till level 10/30/50, when they seem so cost efficient that you can't turn them down.

The consensus is that players want more slots sooner, because having more options is fun. So all that needs to happen is to make the opportunity cost lower. Command isn't quite good enough to cover the cost, which is why you get free Engineering to go with it - and engineering specifically so you can get the better power plant that you need to deal with all those extra components.


Thinking about slots, there is another bug: Components you do not currently have the CP to equip should be deactivated. Allowing that leads to crew swapping. Someone could keep around a Tactical Crew, and a Structural Crew, equip tons of strong M/H components, and then replace all the crew one by one with Light Components. We've all done it in ARPGs before, but it breaks this game very, very hard.

aReclusiveMind
06-22-2012, 12:12 PM
The consensus is that players want more slots sooner, because having more options is fun. So all that needs to happen is to make the opportunity cost lower. Command isn't quite good enough to cover the cost, which is why you get free Engineering to go with it - and engineering specifically so you can get the better power plant that you need to deal with all those extra components.

I am guessing you are playing as Cortex or Fringe. As I mentioned here (http://www.soldak.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5015), not all ships receive the same bonus per command point level up. Some receive free tactical, helm, structure, etc.

Waffles
06-22-2012, 12:22 PM
Interesting! I have only played Fringe, I didn't realize that those bonuses were race dependent. Cool!

Shadow
06-22-2012, 02:24 PM
1) 7% happens to be the min.
15) Not all monsters move at 200
17) Acceleration does go up when your max speed does

LostSoul
06-22-2012, 02:48 PM
#2 I definitely agree on. Planet owners for many races just don't field effective defenses quickly enough. At the very least planets should have a hidden "fighter bay" type module automatically, and immediately start pooping them out. These ships should form a natural defensive line circling the planet. Fighters/interceptors aren't as good as an actual ship in orbit, but they're good enough to give a freshly captured or colonized planet a fighting chance.

Waffles
06-24-2012, 06:08 AM
1) 7% happens to be the min.
15) Not all monsters move at 200
17) Acceleration does go up when your max speed does

Thanks for replying! I figured a couple of my observations would be off, although just how many did surprise me. Shadow - I'd be really interested to know if any of these didn't seem invalid to you and/or went on a todo list =).

I looked at the Radar% through a couple, and it appears to be Radar - 95 - 5*EnemyLevel. I haven't seen many radars but I suppose if its possible to get 4-7 per level then that'd work out great. If players are finding that it isn't/isn't worth it, then it could be an issue, but only then.

Sorry if this is a weird bump.

Shadow
06-25-2012, 12:09 PM
I usually put just about everything on my todo list when I first read a post. I kind of let it sit there while I think about it for a few days. Then when I actually get to it on my todo list, I either do something about it or remove it. I am possible that a bunch of these will eventually be fixed.