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View Full Version : Last two races allied, how do I win?


Heffro
07-01-2012, 08:52 PM
Hello all! I just got the game last night, and so far I love it, but I have one big problem that is keeping me from going any further...

In my current (and first) game, I am down to the last 2 races out of 4 and I am allied with both races with 100 / 100 relations. They are also allied and in love with each other with 100 / 100 relations, and I don't think they plan on going to war with each other any time soon.

Is there something I can do to make them hate each other?

Now, I have tried spreading rumors about both sides, and even though the rumors are successful, their love for each other only goes down to about 95 / 100 at the most (after spending all of my credits spreading them) and just 20 seconds later it goes right back up to 100 / 100. I have tried talking both sides into breaking alliance or going to war and offered them money / technology / planet locations, but they just laugh in my face and tell me it will never happen. I am totally confused about what to do here, does anyone have any advice? I am only level 9, should I just keep doing quests and wait for them to hate each other all of a sudden? Do I have to keep playing this one game until I get a huge amount of cash to pay off one side or the other? (which would take forever) Could my game possibly be screwed? Any help would be much appreciated.

Shadow
07-02-2012, 04:08 PM
They are supposed to turn on each other eventually, although it sounds like that isn't working very well.

Roswitha
07-02-2012, 04:52 PM
Why not make allied victory an option? If everybody is allied and it stays that way for 10 minutes, call it a victory.

Shadow
07-02-2012, 05:02 PM
Why not make allied victory an option? If everybody is allied and it stays that way for 10 minutes, call it a victory.

They aren't meant to stay allied. :)

Oh, the other possible issue is that there might be other races still lurking about that you haven't discovered yet.

Valgor
07-02-2012, 05:24 PM
They are supposed to turn on each other eventually, although it sounds like that isn't working very well.

On the contrary; I had a game pre-patch that I was about to win, and once I resumed it with the patch installed, everyone turned on each other in an instant.

LostSoul
07-02-2012, 05:59 PM
Hasn't worked for me thus far. The two factions left are happy as clams together. All the credits I've got can't buy a war between em. Not that I mind directly. One race earns all the credits, the other race takes all the planets like a fat kid at an all-you-can-eat buffet table.

So I fly around, mop up rogue ships, occasionally do quests, sell bunches of components, earn tons of credits and keep on keepin' on. A planet here or there sometimes has a nice surprise in stock. Nobody has been giving me any gifts though. I am bummed. After all the work I went through to secure my inevitable stalemate. :P

robmack
07-02-2012, 06:13 PM
What happens if you declare war on one of the races? It worked well for me since I was allies with the other race, and they were not allies themselves.

It was pretty awesome because the two races that were friendly, and had a lot of close proximty planets, suddenly dropped into a bloody, back ally brawl. Instant warzone. I actually felt a little guilty, but it got the sector completed in pretty short order.

I'm curious what would have happened if the computers were allies as well. Which side would they have chosen?

cpmartins
07-02-2012, 07:13 PM
Having the same problem on .905. I tried going to war with one of them, but since their ships can wipe the floor with me, it didn't help much. Tried bombing from afar, but as soon as I killed the colony, they'd colonize another, sometimes even faster than the time it took for me to destroy it. Stuck in a unwinnable state right now.
Map size is medium, normal pacing, level 30 monsters, I'm level 33.

LostSoul
07-02-2012, 07:33 PM
War with one is war with both. We're all together in a tree-happy hippy trio-commune. Partly my fault because I didn't realize that the victory conditions had been paired all the way down to "last man standing...period" in 905 (or was it 4? whatever).

Backstory - It was a splinter group of another faction. When they broke away, they took several planets and LOTS of quests with them; quests that I could do to get xp, earn credits and gain favor (granting that it took some work on my part to defend those planets from their rivals). So I helped cultivate a mutual appreciation between them and my allied faction so I wouldn't have faction backlash from all those quests. Had I known that doing such would result in an unwinnable game I wouldn't have.

jamuelscones
07-02-2012, 07:48 PM
I've had exactly the same issue with my first game yesterday, running .905. I have two races remaining, allied, and I can't seem to do anything to resolve the sector. I think if the last man standing winning condition is to be viable, there needs to be something in the code to antagonise the last two races - a second colony rush followed by a a guaranteed war, or just war if the entire sector is already full. Something to bring the sector to a close for the player, one way or another, so that they can move on.

As an aside, I've had the same experience with rumours too - miniscule changes in attitude, which are almost immediately reversed. The rumours seem to provide no real value for the player's money in the circumstances you'd want to use them at all.

Shadow
07-02-2012, 08:05 PM
There is code that makes them turn on each other. It is possible that there are hidden races still. In the next build there will be a way to know if there are hidden races left.

jerebaldo1
07-02-2012, 10:35 PM
I too can confirm this unwinnable state in a normal/medium/6 race game; I traipsed all around the galaxy looking for other races, and the 3 others that weren't allied in a love triangle were all eliminated. Something isn't activating that code; sure seems like the more common class of bug during development of A Valley Without Wind

RoboAV
07-02-2012, 10:39 PM
I find myself allied with the Brunt against the Utopians, who are more than twice as powerful as my ally. I didn't make contact with the Utopians for quite some time. Hours spent picking off Utopian planets- and by picking off, I mean staying out of range and cheesing with bombs- has made no perceptible difference. In fact, the tide continues to swing in favor of the Utopians.

I don't have the power to wage war in any way meaningful enough to help my allies. I don't stand a chance in a direct confrontation with an enemy planet. At this point, I could abandon my allies and start grinding relations with the Utopians, but that feels like defeat, too. Maybe, I just haven't figured out how to wage war effectively.

The thought that keeps occurring to me is that I don't have the opportunity to make a meaningful choice as to who I ally with. If I were to start by scouring the sector for every race, at least I would have some idea which race to side with. The most powerful race. As far as achieving a winning sector goes, doing quests for anyone else is effectively counterproductive. Why build any race up, do any questing, sign any treaties or offer so much as a crumb, when I will be coming back to destroy them? Wouldn't destroying any race on sight be the most effective strategy? Until the last one left is lucky enough to be my ally and ticket to victory.

If this victory condition is to continue, I feel like we need full contact with every species at the start of the game. Allow the players a choice about who to throw in with besides who the closest race is. And the closest race is my chosen ally 90% of the time, simply by virtue of me needing to trade with someone and have safe harbor.

Or, set up the game so that each sector is a contract with a specific race. The Brunt have hired a Drox Operative to come in and help them conquer the sector. It makes sense with the current win condition, at the cost of some of the sandbox feel.

The sole survivor win condition feels brutal to me. I enjoyed the idea of forging alliances between the species and creating harmony via laser blasts. At the least, allow a surrender option so that I'm not playing the game of genocide every time.

Geez, I feel like I'm whining now.
:o

Shadowy Figure
07-03-2012, 12:55 AM
I just lost a game where I had a mutual protection pact with the Hive and I was taking out the Dryads one planet at a time. After destroying a couple Dryad colonies, the Hive and Dryads signed a mutual protection pact. One more destroyed Dryad colony later, they formed an alliance. The Hive declared war on me then the 10 minute lose timer started ticking.

If I were to start by scouring the sector for every race, at least I would have some idea which race to side with. The most powerful race.
After I first installed the game I watched the intro video then just assumed that is exactly how you are supposed to play the game. Did you skip the video or did you have an entirely different impression than I did?

RoboAV
07-03-2012, 02:36 AM
I re-watched the intro video to see if I had missed anything. It seems to me that the point of the intro is quite the opposite, really.
"They learned that loyalty to any one race was foolish."
Yet, loyalty to one race is the victory condition...

The Drox have lost there way, again. Is history doomed to repeat itself?

LostSoul
07-03-2012, 02:57 AM
Well, once all the planets were claimed in the sector the two races finally turned on one another. We'll see how this ends I guess. I'm not seeing much hope for the underdogs here though cause they are...tiny compared to the big sector spanning super-power.

Heffro
07-03-2012, 07:19 PM
I too can confirm this unwinnable state in a normal/medium/6 race game; I traipsed all around the galaxy looking for other races, and the 3 others that weren't allied in a love triangle were all eliminated. Something isn't activating that code; sure seems like the more common class of bug during development of A Valley Without Wind

Yeah the code is not activating, not even with the .906 patch. I cannot win this game, I just fly around aimlessly killing stuff that is level 5, and I have explored every inch of every system. These last two remaining races have a strong love for each other that is unbreakable.

I have tried going to war with the weaker race, but they just blast me to bits in seconds because their ships are 10 times more powerful than mine, and I have no chance to make myself any stronger than they are when quests only give me about 160 XP on top of all the mobs being half my level. I did notice that there were about 2 or 3 un-colonized planets in the game, but they are all gas giants and nobody seems very interested. Could that be keeping them from turning on each other?

I dunno, I guess I will just have to start a new ship, and hope this doesn't happen again...

Shadow
07-03-2012, 09:17 PM
Yeah the code is not activating, not even with the .906 patch. I cannot win this game, I just fly around aimlessly killing stuff that is level 5, and I have explored every inch of every system. These last two remaining races have a strong love for each other that is unbreakable.

You might want to look at the win progress screen and see if there are any hidden races somewhere.

Heffro
07-03-2012, 11:27 PM
You might want to look at the win progress screen and see if there are any hidden races somewhere.

I did that, I went to the "Win Progress" button and it says "Any uknown races left?: No."

Since my last post, I started a new game and the same thing is happening all over again.

I mean, I would gladly blast the weaker race into next week if I could, in fact I would personally prefer to do that for the win, but they level faster than me, have better equipment, and have more ships. I don't stand a chance.

jamuelscones
07-04-2012, 07:09 AM
I'd like to report that after patching to .906 and playing my deadlocked game for an hour or so, my final two races (Dryad and Hive) are still allied with no signs of that changing. I have checked the new victory progress screen and there are no unknown races left.

Steven - could you explain what is supposed to happen at this stage? Are the two remaining allies just meant to immediately break it off and go to war, or is there supposed to be any kind of escalation that would be visible to the player? I have noticed that there will rarely be a message to the effect that "race X's diplomat has insulted race Y", but the effects of that are quickly reversed by the AI's business-as-usual activity, as is the case with the effects of rumours.

Happy to submit my savegame when I return home from work, if it would help at all.

Shadow
07-04-2012, 11:37 AM
Their relations are meant to get worse and worse until they war with one another. It looks like something is preventing that.

If you guys could send me your save games with 2 races stuck in an alliance and the win progress screen says there aren't any hidden races, that would be extremely helpful.

I need the 4 files that start with your ship name and are in:

Vista/Win7 - C:\Users\YOUR USER NAME\AppData\Local\DroxOperative\User\chars
XP - C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR USER NAME\Local Settings\Application Data\DroxOperative\User\chars
Mac - /Users/YOUR USER NAME/Library/Application Support/DroxOperative/User/chars

My email address is on our contact page (http://www.soldak.com/Company/Contact.html).

Heffro
07-04-2012, 01:10 PM
Their relations are meant to get worse and worse until they war with one another. It looks like something is preventing that.

If you guys could send me your save games with 2 races stuck in an alliance and the win progress screen says there aren't any hidden races, that would be extremely helpful.

I need the 4 files that start with your ship name and are in:

Vista/Win7 - C:\Users\YOUR USER NAME\AppData\Local\DroxOperative\User\chars
XP - C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR USER NAME\Local Settings\Application Data\DroxOperative\User\chars
Mac - /Users/YOUR USER NAME/Library/Application Support/DroxOperative/User/chars

My email address is on our contact page (http://www.soldak.com/Company/Contact.html).

Sure man, anything to help straighten this out. I just sent you the files from my first game that I was playing when I created this thread.

BTW, this is a really cool game, it will be really interesting to see how it shapes up between now and the official release.