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View Full Version : Can you loose with winning conditions fulfilled?


graffen69
08-05-2012, 01:09 AM
I came very close to loosing a game where i had 100 relationship with the last race (dryad) due to time out and no winning sign popping up until the very last minute when they sent me a gift. Is this intentional? Can you lose with winning conditions fulfilled?

I remember winning before but at that time the losing timeout never popped up. As soon as i destroyed the second to last race (and had 80+ relation with the other race) i got a winning sign immediately.

sbach2o
08-06-2012, 08:33 AM
I came very close to loosing a game where i had 100 relationship with the last race (dryad) due to time out and no winning sign popping up until the very last minute when they sent me a gift. Is this intentional? Can you lose with winning conditions fulfilled?

I remember winning before but at that time the loosing timeout never popped up. As soon as i destroyed the second to last race (and had 80+ relation with the other race) i got a winning sign immediately.

When there's just one race left, you need to be allied with them to actually win. When you are at a relationship of 100, this is just a formality, because they will accept a proposal of alliance right away. But this proposal must be made or the timer for losing the sector will tick on.

Thinks get 'interesting' when you relationship with the last remaining race is below 80. Then you'll have to buy the alliance or work on improving that relationship in the remaining time. If there are no/few remaining quests, or you're poor or they're rich (yes, the cost to buy into an alliance depends heavily on their wealth!) this can be hard.

graffen69
08-06-2012, 03:13 PM
Yup, i had max (100) relation with them, was ally long before i killed last enemy race. Still i came very close to loosing which made me puzzled. :confused:

sbach2o
08-07-2012, 04:52 AM
Yup, i had max (100) relation with them, was ally long before i killed last enemy race. Still i came very close to loosing which made me puzzled. :confused:

If you were allied, and they definitely were the last race left, there's some bug. Or they wern't actually the last race (some race you didn't know about still being hidden somewhere). But in that case, the lose-time shouldn't tick.

So I am at a loss. I certainly haven't encountered such a situation in my own play.

Edit: A possibility I can think of:

Your were once allied with them, thought you still were at the end, but the alliance had been cancelled at some time without you becoming aware of this. This can happen in various ways, including clicking the wrong button in responce to one of the frequent demands to 'terminate treaty with race...' or 'declare war on race...' which some races like to spam, particularly when they're already at war with you and close to extinction.

When you got the victory at the end, it was because the monetary gift from the race lifted you over the limit for the economic victory.

graffen69
08-07-2012, 07:45 PM
If you were allied, and they definitely were the last race left, there's some bug.

Thatīs what iīm thinking too.
I had been playing that world for hours upon hours and was tripple checking everything i had made to make sure i didnīt bring it upon myself. One possible explanation would be that the game isnīt programmed for winning conditions when the relation is at 100+. At the time the gift was sent, close to time-out, my relation was around 98 - 99 which then triggered the auto victory condition.

sbach2o
08-10-2012, 02:30 PM
There is another possible explanation which has come to my mind:

You may have run afoul of one of new conditions for losing a sector which have been introduced in version .913: The economic loss.

I think it requires you to go into the red financially by a certain amount. How exactly this 'going into the red' is counted, I do not know. But it probably counts only money lost or accumulated while playing the sector at hand, and the main way to actually lose money should consist in getting fined 'virtual' resurrection fees after dying (maybe failed quests also count in some way?). Those fees are 'virtual' in the sense that they aren't actually deducted from you bank account, but only appear in that economic sector balance.

Well, to hit that loss condition would mean that you must've had .913 installed and either died a lot while playing the sector or maybe failed a lot of missions. Another condition would be that this loss condition takes precedence over the military victory condition which you met at the same time.

At the end, receiving the gift which saved you lifted you out of that predicament and made you eligible for winning the sector.

This is a lot of speculation, though. I haven't myself seen this sector loss condition at work, yet. Note, there is now a new 'lose'-button besides the 'win'-button in the UI (somewhat easy to overlook). There you should be able to see what's afoot when the lose-timer is counting down.

Moonshine Fox
08-29-2012, 04:04 PM
Also, do mind that you actually have to go through Non-Agression Pact -> Mutual Protection Pact -> Alliance to actually be allied with a race. It's not enough to simply have the required relation levels.

PixelLord
08-29-2012, 04:37 PM
Also, do mind that you actually have to go through Non-Agression Pact -> Mutual Protection Pact -> Alliance to actually be allied with a race. It's not enough to simply have the required relation levels.

I never noticed that. I always took that progression anyway, though, because each earlier treaty gave me more +relations with said race, which made progress toward getting enough relations to get the next treaty.

Moonshine Fox
08-29-2012, 04:39 PM
I never noticed that. I always took that progression though because each earlier treaty gave me more +relations with said race, which made progress for getting enough relations to get the next treaty.

Ah well, I guess you can go from nothing to Alliance instantly, but you still have to go through the Negotiations screen, or get an Alliance offered from the race. What I was trying to say was that it's not enough just having good relations. You have to have "sealed the deal" too.

Man, I'm just failing at communications today.

PixelLord
08-29-2012, 04:48 PM
Ah well, I guess you can go from nothing to Alliance instantly, but you still have to go through the Negotiations screen, or get an Alliance offered from the race. What I was trying to say was that it's not enough just having good relations. You have to have "sealed the deal" too.

Man, I'm just failing at communications today.

What are you doing; just trolling again? ;) Just kidding - I was reading the cargo bay thread. :D

Moonshine Fox
08-29-2012, 04:50 PM
What are you doing; just trolling again? ;) Just kidding - I was reading the cargo bay thread. :DLOL! Damn you, don't make jokes like that while I'm at work! People look at me funnily when I burst out laughing at random times :P

graffen69
08-30-2012, 01:51 PM
This time Iīm allied (80-100 rep) with the last 3 races, the other 3 destroyed and yet not winning sign. Gone through the whole Non-Agression Pact -> Mutual Protection Pact -> Alliance with all three of them & done several quests since reaching allied status and none of the remaining races are at war with each other. Remind me, do the remaining races have to be allied with each other? (Utopian are neutral with Hive & Lithosoid dislikes Hive). Kinda hard to affect, feel like a sitting duck just waiting for something to happen. Guess I could start a war with one of em, but that would feel like going through a lot of trouble to spoil it at this stage.

Moonshine Fox
08-30-2012, 01:53 PM
This time Iīm allied (80-100 rep) with the last 3 races, the other 3 destroyed and yet not winning sign. Gone through the whole Non-Agression Pact -> Mutual Protection Pact -> Alliance with all three of them & done several quests since reaching allied status and none of the remaining races are at war with each other. Remind me, do the remaining races have to be allied with each other? (Utopian are neutral with Hive & Lithosoid dislikes Hive). Kinda hard to affect, feel like a sitting duck just waiting for something to happen. Guess I could start a war with one of em, but that would feel like going through a lot of trouble to spoil it at this stage.

Yes, a full diplomatic win requires you to be allied with ALL remaining races, AND they have to be allied with eachother. An ally win with anything more than two races is hard to pull off. It's MUCH easier to go for a military win with the strongest and just wipe the other two out.

graffen69
08-30-2012, 02:07 PM
I see, guess iīll start a war (feel like a president :p). Thx for the fast response.