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Old 09-21-2011, 11:51 AM
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Shadow Shadow is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 9,444

I definitely think about sequels to our previous games here and there.
Steven Peeler
Depths of Peril, Kivi's Underworld, Din's Curse, Drox Operative, Zombasite, Din's Legacy, & Drox Operative 2
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Old 09-22-2011, 10:36 AM
gornova gornova is offline
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 184

With your experience and Din's + Dop code I think you can make a great game! Just think adding multiplayer to Dop!!
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Old 02-09-2014, 01:16 AM
joku joku is offline
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 193

So the release of DoP on GOG got me thinking about DoP again. Thinking about DoP lead to me thinking about a sequel. Given the mindless nature of my job, I ended up with several hours each day to think about it, and my imagination went a little wild.

A little bit of story first. A generation has come and gone since the vanquishing of Draaien. In this time the Hero of Jorvik has united the town under a single covenant, through conquest and diplomacy. But now a new evil stirs. This evil threatens not only Jorvik, but the neighboring towns as well. These towns each seek to quell the evil. Some will seek out any help they can get in this endeavor. Others are not so willing to share the glory. As a direct descendent of the Hero of Jorvik, it is your task to investigate this new evil, maintain order in the region, and once again bring glory to your home.

Perhaps the biggest difference from DoP is that each covenant is in its own town. You'll have to discover these towns by exploring the overworld, so you won't automatically know which covenants exist in this world and exactly where their lifestones are. When you find a new town, your relations with them will be neutral. As such, you might have access to their traders, but the rest of the town remains behind a gate. Should you become allies with the town, the gates will open to you. Should you go to war with the town, you'll have to break through this gate in order gain access to the town and its lifestone. Doing this solo, or even with one or two followers will be quite difficult.

You'll have to recruit warriors to form a war party. The war party would remain in Jorvik until you order it to attack another town. Then the war party will move on its own toward the town, through the wilderness. This will take time, your war party will have to fight monsters along the way, and they will be exposed to attack from your enemies, and Jorvik will have less defense. If the leader of the town you're attacking sees the war party out in the wilderness, they will know an attack is coming and have some time to prepare. All of this makes war more involved and significant than it was in DoP. But what if things were a little easier? What if when your war party arrived at the enemy town, the gates were wide open? This leads into a rather complex and involved intelligence system.

This system starts with Jorvik. The people of Jorvik will have needs, similar to the townspeople of Demon War, but at a town-wide level rather than an individual level. They have their basic needs (food, money, security), but these are a proud people. They also need glory. More on that later. If their needs are met, then all is well with the town, and you may even be rewarded. But if the people are sufficiently unsatisfied, dissidents will arise. You won't know when you get a new dissident, but all the towns you have contact with will. And when another town gets a dissident, you'll see it on a bulletin board in Jorvik. A dissident generates a quest in all other towns. Whichever town completes the quest first will recruit the dissident. There are several different kinds of dissidents, all of them relating to espionage. Some examples include one who will open the town's gate for your war party, one who will sabotage the town's defenses, one who will sabotage the town's food/water supply, one who will spy for you, one who will spread propaganda for you, etc. Dissidents are not permanent; if the conditions in the town improve sufficiently, the dissident will return to being a normal person and the town who recruited the dissident will lose its benefits.

A large portion of the game revolves around intelligence, or lack thereof. You don't actually know how strong another town is unless you are allied with them, have a spy in the town, or acquire the information from a third town. This makes diplomacy rather tricky. For example, would a town capitulate to your demand for tribute if they have no idea how strong you are? In fact, they can't make that decision without something to go off of. So you have to tell them how strong you are. Or you can lie. If you have 5 warriors, you can tell them you have 5 warriors, or 20 warriors, or 100 warriors. If the number you give them is too low they'll never give in. If the number is absurdly high (like 100) they'll laugh in your face. But if you say you have 20, a couple things could happen. They could believe you and capitulate. They could refuse on the grounds that they don't believe you. They could refuse on the grounds that they know you're lying (they probably have a spy). They could refuse because they say they have 30 warriors (which could be true, or they could be bluffing as well). When it comes to diplomacy the more facts you bring to the table, the more leverage you will have.

That brings us back to glory. If you are a bad negotiator, get called on your bluffs, have your demands refused, etc. then you will lose glory, your town will become less happy, and you will be more likely to get dissidents. You actually lose glory naturally over time, and a good way to gain glory is to successfully acquire tribute from another town through shrewd negotiation. So it's really a risk/reward situation when it comes to negotiations. You can also gain glory by killing bosses, completing other major quests, and through some other interactions with the other towns.

I had previously mentioned a bulletin board where you can recruit dissidents. At this board you'll also be able to recruit normal citizens to permanently join your town. These citizens can be various different kinds of traders, engineers to build defenses for your town, warriors, spies, saboteurs, and propagandists. The kind of citizen will be random, and they will arrive at random times. All towns will be able to recruit the citizen, so it will be down to whoever can complete the quest first. You may also find a citizen out in the wilderness. You won't have as much competition when trying to recruit these ones.

So a bit more about spies. Spies can either be citizens or dissidents, and they are either military spies or civilian spies. Military spies provide intel on the strength, level, and perhaps equipment of a town's warriors, as well as the location and target of its war party, and information on the town's other defenses. Civilian spies provide intel on a town's food/water supply, gold reserves, happiness, glory, the number and types of traders, etc. Dissident spies are fixed to one town, can only be recruited when that town is unhappy, and can only be removed when that town gains sufficient happiness. The town can't know it has a dissident spy. It will know it could have a kind of dissident based on unhappiness, but won't know if it's a spy or other kind. The town could also suspect it has a spy if another town reveals accurate intel during negotiations. Citizen spies can be moved between towns, can be recruited even when a town is happy, and can only be removed by killing them. A citizen spy is different from a dissident spy in that you can actually find it in the town. It will be like a Din's Curse thief in that it will be nearly invisible. However, since the player will not receive any prompts indicating that they have spy, the spy will be slightly more visible than the Din's Curse thief. If a player suspects they might have a spy, they can try searching their town for one. AI players will have a random chance of killing a spy.

Whew! Quite a bit so far, and I still haven't even gotten to rumors. Well, onward and forward.

While you'll never know the details of another town without a spy or alliance, from time to time you will hear rumors. Rumors are generated naturally (townspeople talking to each other) and are generally pretty close to the truth, though sometimes they're way off. For example, you hear one town had 5000 gold. More than likely it has around 5000 gold give or take 10%, but, although unlikely, it might only have 500 gold, or maybe 10,000 gold. But those odds are for natural rumors. There are also manufactured rumors spread by propagandists. You might hear a rumor that a town has 30 warriors. This could have been spread by that town to give the appearance of strength so you won't attack it. Or it could be a natural rumor which means they likely do have around 30 warriors. You could spread a rumor to reinforce the truth about you so the other towns will believe you, or you could spread a rumor to reinforce the lie you're about to tell. You could use rumors to create tension between two other towns possibly causing them to go to war. A town may come to you asking for a gift of a rare item they heard you found.

All this adds more uncertainty to your interactions with the other towns. Do you trust what you heard, or what they're telling you? If the rumor is the same as what they're telling you, did they start that rumor? If so, to what end? Or perhaps the rumor was natural and they're telling you the truth. Better try to generate some unhappiness in that town so you can get a dissident spy in there so you can know for sure.

And all of that is on top of the normal quests and monsters you have to contend with. All of this is meant to make diplomacy and war with the other covenants much more interesting and meaningful. The kicker? Multiplayer, where each player controls a town. You could all agree to ally together and play the game as a purely co-op experience. But can you trust that one of you isn't secretly working against the rest? The end result is a multiplayer experience that is either co-op, competitive, or a mixture of the two.

There. I finally got that out of my system.
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Old 02-15-2014, 08:05 AM
Brachiales Brachiales is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 6

Well I would love to have a very own Town.
So the players can build shops and even workshops to craft theyr own stuff.
This leads to resources like stone, wood, metal ores and more.
How about the players can clean the areas next to the town and capture it.
So we can build oremines and othe thingsr there?
Bosses and other strong enemys can drop blueprints for building-addons like a better anvil and similar stuff.

Also i would suggest you to move over to the unity gameengine, its free for indiedevs and very powerfull.

You don't know unity and or C# ? No problem there is a nice tutorial for h&s games on:
I use Unity by my self and i'm pretty sure you can learn wath you need in short time.
Also it is very easy to make your new games for many plattforms with it.
You don't even need to change anything in your code for Windows/Mac/Linux.

So think about it and sorry for my poor english.
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Old 03-04-2014, 02:03 PM
DOP2please DOP2please is offline
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 18

No matter how many games I play DOP always feels like a special game. That goes for Soldak's other games as well but DOP is a personal favorite. I really like the way Soldak does things. DOP developmet definitely has my financial support and many others I'm sure.

The dynamically changing world is where I think DOP shines so it would be interesting to see that pushed farther.

It might be cool to make weapons and armor more customize-able. Like gear upgrades, augmentation, or even combining gear.
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Old 03-06-2014, 03:45 PM
Shankar Shankar is offline
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3

Originally Posted by DOP2please View Post
No matter how many games I play DOP always feels like a special game. That goes for Soldak's other games as well but DOP is a personal favorite. I really like the way Soldak does things. DOP developmet definitely has my financial support and many others I'm sure.

The dynamically changing world is where I think DOP shines so it would be interesting to see that pushed farther.

It might be cool to make weapons and armor more customize-able. Like gear upgrades, augmentation, or even combining gear.
I totally agree, DoP always felt like a special game, i played it when i was 9 years old and its still one of the games i will never forget, completed it like 12 times.

So, what i would like to see?

A World, not just dungeons:

That's the difference between Din's Curse and Depth of Peril, a open, dynamic and random world where players can met each other, return to their houses, trade, interact, raid, get allies, build an army, party together and more.

Multiplayer: Yes, i think everyone wants it, i dont mean CO-OP only:

Just like in Depth of Peril system, players have a small house, they can recruit players, ally with other guilds or raid them.

There should be 2 options like:

Each player is a Hero or Leader and they can recruit bots that are weaker, you are the commander of your Guild, you are who decide if they defend, attack or follow you.

Bots are disabled, and the Players can recruit other Player to make a Guild, ally with others, raid or dominate them, and more.

There should be a Dedicated Server and players host the matches.

Customization: Its very important in all games, to customize characters, items, create your weapons and improve them, the game modes, the way you play, merge classes (like in Din's Curse if i remember correctly), changing rules to your liking, etc.

What i really liked about Depth of Peril:

Very random items generation, drop, events, monsters.
The history, bosses, the art.
The game itselft.

Sorry if this is confusing and lacks of information, english isnt my main language.

I hope for the best.
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Old 03-30-2014, 01:32 AM
DOP2please DOP2please is offline
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 18

I've been playing a lot of Drox and it's clear that Soldak has learned so much and has taken game design to a whole other level since DOP. I drool at the thought of a new DOP made with the experience that Soldak has now.
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