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  #1  
Old 05-13-2012, 11:57 AM
awera awera is offline
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Default Thoughts about "instant death"?

One thing that I dislike in Din's Curse is "instant death" that often happens when there's a sudden cave-in or other similar reason and your character dies without you having any reasonable chance to predict or evade such an event.

This feels especially unfair when you're playing in the "permanent death"-mode. My opinion is that in every situation, whether the player dies or not, should be a matter of skillful playing (or the lack of it) by the player's part instead of luck. However, this is just a personal opinion, so I'd like to hear what the developers and other people think about the issue.
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Old 05-13-2012, 12:17 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awera View Post
One thing that I dislike in Din's Curse is "instant death" that often happens when there's a sudden cave-in or other similar reason and your character dies without you having any reasonable chance to predict or evade such an event.

This feels especially unfair when you're playing in the "permanent death"-mode. My opinion is that in every situation, whether the player dies or not, should be a matter of skillful playing (or the lack of it) by the player's part instead of luck. However, this is just a personal opinion, so I'd like to hear what the developers and other people think about the issue.
This is why I think permadeath is not a good setting for ARPGs like DC. As a realtime game, you'll always have cases where bad things happen too fast to react to them. In a rogue-like, when bad things happen, you usually have a turn or 2 to do something. This isn't the case here. Permadeath (or 'hardcore') mode is really built for turned-base games. The best mode that approximates that for an ARPG is 'semi-hardcore', where you get heavily penalized for death (with a VIT penalty), but not to the point that your character is dead right away. I hope Drox will have a similar mode.
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Old 05-13-2012, 03:13 PM
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Castruccio Castruccio is offline
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But why not leave the option for hardcore permadeth in for those who like to tool around with it? There is no sense in removing perfectly good features. I have several hardcore characters, and it's a real thrill to see how far I can get before chance or my own idiocy kills them.

I think it is just as fun, and perhaps more fun, to die as a consequence of chance. I like seeing what sorts of calamities the game can produce.

Last edited by Castruccio : 05-13-2012 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 05-13-2012, 03:17 PM
Bluddy Bluddy is offline
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Originally Posted by Castruccio View Post
But why not leave the option for hardcore permadeth in for those who like to tool around with it? There is no sense in removing perfectly good features. I have several hardcore characters, and it's a real thrill to see how far I can get before chance or my own idiocy kills them.
Oh definitely. I'm not saying permadeath should be removed. I just think semi-hardcore is a better fit for an ARPG. But permadeath can certainly be fun as well.
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Old 05-13-2012, 04:24 PM
Valgor Valgor is offline
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There'll always be Escape Pods that give you a chance to get away and recover; though I don't know if those will be disabled in hardcore mode.
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  #6  
Old 05-13-2012, 05:30 PM
fab fab is offline
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In Path of Exile (Diablo like which is open beta this weekend btw, or min. 10$ support pack to get a key) they have a really good idea:

You play in the hardcore league, and when you die, your character moves to a different league. You don't lose everything. You can still play. yet the penalty has the same significance since you can no longer join Hardcore games with that character.
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Old 05-13-2012, 05:53 PM
Valgor Valgor is offline
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Good idea. So when a hardcore ships gets blown up, it's not destroyed for good but rather becomes a regular ship with an entry in the hardcore hall of fame.
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Old 05-13-2012, 06:01 PM
kerzain kerzain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fab View Post
In Path of Exile (Diablo like which is open beta this weekend btw, or min. 10$ support pack to get a key) they have a really good idea:

You play in the hardcore league, and when you die, your character moves to a different league. You don't lose everything. You can still play. yet the penalty has the same significance since you can no longer join Hardcore games with that character.
The penalty of having a character moved from hardcore to default upon death has vastly different implications in a game like Path of Exile than it would in Drox Operative. Path of Exile is a persistent world multiplayer game, where each league has a completely separate economy and playerbase from the other. On the other hand, Drox Operative is a single player & LAN based game, and it makes no difference if your character is flagged as hardcore or normal if you're still able to continue playing it when you manage to get yourself killed.

In essence, single player games offer no death penalty whatsoever if you're just having a label/flag changed in the game. True hardcore mode is the loss of all items and progress at death. What PoE is doing is more like a carebear mode, for those people who think they're hardcore, but really don't have the balls to go full hardcore.

If Drox Operative plays anything like Din's Curse or Depths of Peril, then implementing a system similar to PoE's wouldn't really do anything more than force the player to lose that particular mission/match/instance/scenario/whatever and then start up the next. I guess the flag for the save game would change from Hardcore to normal, but what else is at stake here? Anything? Nothing important it sounds like.

Hardcore mode isn't for everybody, and it's a bad idea to change an existing mode simply to appeal to more people -- especially when you'd simply be turning the mode into something that it isn't. There are other modes for people who just can't bear the thought of risking everything every time they dare load up a save game.

Now, I'm all about extra features and game modes and the like, and I'm sure we could all come up with several new ways to implement different types of penalties for deaths and the like than have been in past Soldak games; but I think it's a bit egregious to suggest that a single player & lan party/co-op based game try to incorporate game elements from a game centered around a persistent world & economy intended to cater to thousands of simultaneous players. What's best for one game is not what's best for the other.
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  #9  
Old 05-13-2012, 06:09 PM
kerzain kerzain is offline
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Originally Posted by Valgor View Post
Good idea. So when a hardcore ships gets blown up, it's not destroyed for good but rather becomes a regular ship with an entry in the hardcore hall of fame.
Bad idea, because the door is left wide open for risk taking above and beyond what you might normally find yourself doing in a true hardcore mode. Luck would play a much larger role because of the lessened/eliminated penalty, and as such the elimination of a true hardcore death penalty would for all intents and purposes artificially inflate the hall of fame stats.

Simply put, by taking away the threat of losing everything, people would be more willing to do stupid and less strategic thinking, always knowing there's a dumb crutch to fall back on if they mess up.
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  #10  
Old 05-13-2012, 07:14 PM
Valgor Valgor is offline
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What's there to loose in a game anyway? The time you spent playing a specific character/ship is already gone by the time it dies, and won't come back.
You do know you can still access a dead hardcore character's stash in Din's Curse, so you don't necessarily "loose everything" ... I hope that's the way it's handled in Drox Operative as well.

Besides, the game could always prompt the player if they want to continue playing their hardcore ship regularly or delete it instead.

Last edited by Valgor : 05-13-2012 at 07:17 PM.
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