Emergent gameplay is not immediately apparent

[udm]

Then what in your definition is "emergent" in Din's Curse?


e·mer·gent

4.
arising casually or unexpectedly.

Having a Torva Shaman destroy a support pillar which causes a cave-in unto itself sounds pretty "unexpected" to me.

[PixelLord]

Originally Posted by udm

By "immediately", I mean in an hour of gameplay, maybe even less, which is approximately the time it takes to hit max level in the demo.

I agree that an hour of gameplay is not long enough to see many of the features and emergent gameplay. I've already told others that, "If you play for an hour you might stop playing and not be overly impressed. But if you play for 6 - 8 hours, you'll be hooked."

I wasn't sure how long the demo lasted, but I think that the demo should be longer (eight hours) so the game's features can come to light. After all, Din's Curse is a game that someone can play for days on end and still find new and surprising things.

[Cadfan]

Well, "emergent gameplay" generally involves unintentional interactions between simple rules that lead to complex outcomes, sometimes with players adding the extra element that makes it come together. So intentionally jumping on a trap that drops you down several levels so that you can kill a boss faster without having to fight your way to him- that's emergent. It probably wasn't the intention of the designer that you use traps in this way, but you can.

Its not just about surprising you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergent_gameplay

Din's kind of has an emergent narrative though.

[udm]

Cadfan that's exactly what I was talking about. Maybe my post wasn't clear enough, but that's what I referred "emergent gameplay" to. I did not say that emergent gameplay equates to surprises; instead, I said that (to loosely paraphrase) surprises are an element of that.

Now that we're clear about that, let's get back on topic now shall we

Originally Posted by PixelLord

I agree that an hour of gameplay is not long enough to see many of the features and emergent gameplay. I've already told others that, "If you play for an hour you might stop playing and not be overly impressed. But if you play for 6 - 8 hours, you'll be hooked."

I wasn't sure how long the demo lasted, but I think that the demo should be longer (eight hours) so the game's features can come to light. After all, Din's Curse is a game that someone can play for days on end and still find new and surprising things.

Aye to that, my friend. Aye.

Some of the new players I spoke to couldn't see the uniqueness of Din's Curse. When probed, they just related how they killed stuff, got some neat loot, cleared the town, uninstalled the demo. They didn't notice anything unusual in the game, but a few did mention they noticed that, unlike most other ARPGs, there are timed quests which you can fail.

In any case, most who didn't see the appeal mentioned that they thought it was just another sub-standard attempt at making a Diablo clone, adding nothing really special to the table. Which is my main concern.

[Kruztee]

Wow, this is a really interesting thread. I don't have much to add except that I strongly agree with the original poster's point of view after trying to get my brother interested in the game. He deleted the demo after a little over an hour after not being able to distinguish DC from any number of ARPG's both past and present. The features that separate DC from the crowd; ie the so called "emergent" features of a) the questline and b) the gameplay itself, are very difficult to experience from a demo where most stuff is capped at level 5. In raw gameplay terms, that's less than an hour of play for many gamers. My fear is that a lot of potential customers will fail to see the beauty of the game before they uninstall the demo.

[TheRani]

When I first started playing Din's Curse, I noticed the unusual quest system almost immediately, and found it annoying. I'm used to it now though. I definitely like it better than Diablo or Torchlight.

[Aganazer]

Originally Posted by TheRani

When I first started playing Din's Curse, I noticed the unusual quest system almost immediately, and found it annoying. I'm used to it now though. I definitely like it better than Diablo or Torchlight.

That hits the nail on the head. Most people will see the differences as annoying without bothering to take the time to get used to it. This is particularly ironic because most people will also complain if a game is too similar to others. This falls right into the category of "people don't really know what they want". That makes Din's a niche title since I would bet most of the folks here were actively looking for something new and different.

[udm]

It may be in part due to them not knowing that failed quests have consequences. I don't think the idea of timed quests is very new, even for an ARPG. OTOH, timed quests that lead to unexpected complications (or resolves complications) later on in the game is definitely something new to this genre. Some people can't see beyond the "failed timed quest" part, in that they fail to realize failing the quest has consequences. I'll bet more people will change their minds when they immediately notice how much trouble they're in when they fail to stop a meeting between Blight and Carnage Eater.

[Eduardo X]

I have to agree with the OP. I do like Din's Curse, but I feel it pales in comparison to Depths of Peril. I do like the emergent gameplay, but even after playing it for quite a while, I still think that the dynamic world can be hard to parse.

I think that explainations of the consequences in the quest information may help. "If you don't rescue Billy Bob Joe, Grimbeaver will be able to build a death totem and send assassins into town. You must stop Grimbeaver!"
Or, as udm says, letting them know why a bad thing happened would work. "You failed quest x, and that made the earthquake machine come."

[Warfran]

Originally Posted by Eduardo X

I think that explainations of the consequences in the quest information may help. "If you don't rescue Billy Bob Joe, Grimbeaver will be able to build a death totem and send assassins into town. You must stop Grimbeaver!"
Or, as udm says, letting them know why a bad thing happened would work. "You failed quest x, and that made the earthquake machine come."

Exactly Eduardo, I got a friend to try Din's demo because I enjoy it so much but he didn't really "get it".
I tried to tell him how the quests work and what could happen if you ignore or just don't complete a quest but he didn't see that himself while playing and missed out on the the best part of the game IMO and that is repercussions.

More information in the quest descriptions showing this would bring it to peoples attention right away.