Cargo Bays

[Moonshine Fox]

Originally Posted by DarkTraveler

Unless one enjoys making many trips back to town or planet then it's perfectly viable to seek more inventory space. The answer is obvious enough, so I suspect you are trolling for some reason.

I played Deus Ex. One of my all time favorite games. Your comparison has no relevance. Deus Ex's style is completely different from that of a Soldek Entertainment game. To name just a few items, Deus Ex had neither the amount of drops, nor the many groups of enemies that Soldek Entertainment games do.

I'm most certainly not trolling, and I can't see how you would think I do. My question touches the very notion of expandable inventory space. Why have it at all, when you can just give everyone the max to begin with? What is the design goal with having a severely limited inventory space?

[DarkTraveler]

Originally Posted by Moonshine Fox

EDIT: What I'm trying to say is, why limit inventory space for beginning characters at all? Why not simply let everyone have an inventory that houses a set number of slots comparable to a high level character. Say, someone with 4 very large or what they are called. 12x5 total.

You had to go and explain what you really meant after I posted. Dang you.

I see what you're saying now. I have to say that finding cargo bays in Drox or bags in Din's Curse is fun. I enjoy it. If I simply started out with max inventory space it wouldn't be as fun. Not for me, anyway.

In Din's Curse, actually getting more inventory space WAS fun and wasn't a chore. If you didn't find any bags, then chances are a vendor had some for sale anyway. Yet, it seemed the Vendor stopped selling bags once you reached a certain point. That way, if you found a bag later on, it was still useful and thus felt like a good thing. The formula was good here.

It's not so in Drox. If the random numbers aren't with you and you don't find any cargo bays then you're screwed. At least that's how it is at he moment. Not sure why Mr. Peeler would want to change the winning formula.

[DarkTraveler]

Originally Posted by Moonshine Fox

I'm most certainly not trolling, and I can't see how you would think I do. My question touches the very notion of expandable inventory space. Why have it at all, when you can just give everyone the max to begin with? What is the design goal with having a severely limited inventory space?

Well, you didn't explain yourself clearly at first and it was misunderstood. But, you explained in the edit. It's all good as far as I'm concerned.

[Moonshine Fox]

Originally Posted by DarkTraveler

You had to go and explain what you really meant after I posted. Dang you.

Sorry :P

Originally Posted by DarkTraveler

I see what you're saying now. I have to say that finding cargo bays in Drox or bags in Din's Curse is fun. I enjoy it. If I simply started out with max inventory space it wouldn't be as fun. Not for me, anyway.

Well, that part of the joy is somewhat more a part of the random loot system. You get excited about a lot of drops. Inventory shouldn't (necessarily) really be a part of it. Several games have near unlimited inventory space, in spite of not having such a large amount of drops. (Se A Valley Without Wind, for instance. Over 110 inventory slots, yet not that much random drops).

My point is, what game design is behind the limited inventory, and what function is it supposed to fill? If it's a sense of progression, then frankly the random drops do a better job of that together with levelling up. It also does it without the frustation of being limited (in the same way) initially.

If it's to prevent hoarding, it really doesn't, because the person who is really anal about picking up everything and selling it will simply go several trips. Heck, people even did this in Deus Ex:HR where you could only carry one weapon. They sell their weapon, run back and get the spare, sell that, run back, sell that etc. Completionists will alway be completionists, minmaxers will always be minmaxers. This mechanic does not stop them, just mildly inconvenience them.

I understand the idea, because limited bagspace has been a staple of the aRPG genre for like...forever. My huge gripe is the excessively small space you start with. It would, in my eyes, be better to start with somethingaround 50 slots and that's it. That's your inventory. It doesn't grow, it doesn't shrink. It's just that.

Or, if you absolutely have to have it grow, make it a part of levelling up command. Bigger ship = more cargo space. That way it's controllable, and not so random.

[DarkTraveler]

Originally Posted by Moonshine Fox

My point is, what game design is behind the limited inventory, and what function is it supposed to fill?

It's not to prevent hoarding. The fact that we have our stash, shared stash and so much loot tells me otherwise.

I think that Game makers feel there needs to be some kind of downtime in a game, especially in RPGs. Otherwise customers complain it's boring due to the lack of variety in the experience. The old trip back to town to sell your loot is the most often used method. Same reason why resting is mandatory in some RPGs. For game makers, this is a primary concern. For the actual gamer, this is more subconscious than conscious.

Also, it used to be that going to the shop to sell your loot was a nice experience. The problem with diablo-style games is that there's so much loot that this experience is lost.

Originally Posted by Moonshine Fox

Heck, people even did this in Deus Ex:HR where you could only carry one weapon. They sell their weapon, run back and get the spare, sell that, run back, sell that etc.

Not for me. When I played Deux Ex I ran around with many different weapons. In fact, for the majority of that game I usually had only one itty bitty square of inventory space open.

I usually never picked up weapons I didn't want. Didn't need to sell them to make money. I used computer skills to hack people's bank accounts in that game. It's been a while since I played Deux Ex, but I don't remember money being terribly important in that game anyway.

Originally Posted by Moonshine Fox

My huge gripe is the excessively small space you start with. It would, in my eyes, be better to start with somethingaround 50 slots and that's it. That's your inventory. It doesn't grow, it doesn't shrink. It's just that.

The first Soldek game I played was Din's Curse. When I first saw that tiny backpack space I was like... eh? Then after I found a bag, then bought another bag I was like... ah.

That was less than 5 minutes in when I first tried the demo. Notice how I've now bought Drox and am posting in the forums, etc.

In Dox, we get some reward when we level up. I hate to say it, but most of the time the level up reward is just vendor trash. Cargo bays could change that. Plus, it would solve the problem of not finding them as random drops.

Like, let's say you just leveled up. The game mechanic goes something like this..

If player level >=5
If inventory space = 16 (no cargo bays found)
Then give a cargo bay for a level up reward

And then do something similar at levels 10, 15, etc.

Now, sure.. someone could exploit that. Like, a veteran player could drop his cargo bays just before leveling up to 5, then pick them back up again.

Considering the big picture, though, just how bad of an exploit would it really be? Having at least _some_ exploitable things in a game should be as mandatory as other game elements. It adds to the fun because it makes a player feel smart. I wonder how many of Mr. Peeler's fanboys are people who exploited DoP bugs back in the day? Bet there's at least a few.

Or he could just do it like he did in Din's Curse. Make some vendor that sells cargo bays depending on how much you already have.

[Moonshine Fox]

Originally Posted by DarkTraveler

It's not to prevent hoarding. The fact that we have our stash, shared stash and so much loot tells me otherwise.

I think that Game makers feel there needs to be some kind of downtime in a game, especially in RPGs. Otherwise customers complain it's boring due to the lack of variety in the experience. The old trip back to town to sell your loot is the most often used method.

You'd still have that, only less often. Besides, it'd be the same as if you were maxed out on inventory as a high level character in this game. So that's not really a convincing argument, even though I see your point.

Originally Posted by DarkTraveler

Not for me. When I played Deux Ex I ran around with many different weapons. In fact, for the majority of that game I usually had only one itty bitty square of inventory space open.

That was only an example of how people go out of their way to max their currency/XP, so adding mechanics to curb such behaviour is foolish at best, since they'll just find ways around it. Most players are casuals and don't bother, so inconveniencing the casual majority to stop minmaxers (and failing) isn't a good idea either. That was what I was trying to convey with that analogy.

Originally Posted by DarkTraveler

In Dox, we get some reward when we level up. I hate to say it, but most of the time the level up reward is just vendor trash.

Maybe, maybe not. I've found that as Shadow, getting better cloaks was very consistent up until I "cheated" and entered a game 15 levels above mine and fought hard to beat it. The loot from there is still with me. Otherwise I would've gotten a better cloak almost every level, when I wasn't getting crew or a standoff armor. For my Drakk however, I find it's mostly vendor trash.

Originally Posted by DarkTraveler

Cargo bays could change that. Plus, it would solve the problem of not finding them as random drops.

That would simply lead to a linear progression of inventory, similar to the Command-level up I suggested earlier, in addition to taking away your level up reward component. Just to give you more inventory space.

Originally Posted by DarkTraveler

Make some vendor that sells cargo bays depending on how much you already have.

This already happens. I had the Fringe sell me Medium Cargo bays (8 slot) as an essential item (meaning there was limitless stock). I bought enough for all my three ships and their stashes.

[Moonshine Fox]

I'm also thinking about what Shadow himself said in one of the blogs:

Right now I'm thinking there will be no weight requirements. I have seen this done in a lot of space games, but I would like you to be able to find a decent amount of loot. Having weight limits really gets in the way of loot and loot is fun.

The same could be said for limited inventory space, really.

[graffen69]

Does poverty and/or unlucky affect cargo bay drops?

[Shadow]

Originally Posted by graffen69

Does poverty and/or unlucky affect cargo bay drops?

Poverty will decreased the chances of cargo bays a little since it will make less components drop.

Unlucky will actually increase the chances of cargo bays some because it makes less "magic" components drop and thus more normal components.

[graffen69]

I see, playing with both on main ship. Played 25 levels with patch 0.917 & 0.918, at level 58 now and still haven’t found one single cargo bay since lvl 11. I had to make a couple mules just so I could fill my shared bank with 4 slotters. Still seems extremely hard finding bays beyond the first few levels.

Suggestion: An automatic quest-notifier when a quest is completed in the default screen. Also some notification of where your black box is located (or black boxes if several deaths) would be welcomed (usually don´t pay much attention to which sector I´m playing in) & an auto-clear on failed missions.

Is there a way to check race modifications in the default menu or do I have to go to the “create a new player” screen? If so, some way of checking your race bonuses without having to save/exit would be useful.

I found what I think is a spelling error, second to last line on: HELP TOPIC – DESTRUCTION: …”However, if you go can to retrieve that dropped”… sounds like “go” & “can” are switched.